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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 06-25-2022, 12:16 AM
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Looks like they are going to use the "good moral character" to still make it impossible (though I thought that was struck down too). Lots of easy catch all clauses in the quote above....

"Consideration of Honesty" - "he didn't seem honest to me"
"Trustworthiness" - "I don't know chief, I just didn't trust him"

etc....

And then requiring multiple letters of reference from people who have known you for at least X years and are willing to write a letter that says all the right things and submit themselves to interview just so you can get a CCW.....and perhaps they want to interview your neighbors so everyone knows you are applying for a CCW.

Seems like plenty of wiggle room to declare just about anyone lacks "good moral character". And of course they don't have the resources to conduct all these investigations, so your application will be delayed indefinitely.
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  #82  
Old 06-25-2022, 5:50 AM
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I wonder whose morals will apply. Those of the Nazis in Sacramento?
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  #83  
Old 06-25-2022, 6:55 AM
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Morals are not subject to constitutional muster.

That is a subjective standard based on Christain moral principles.
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  #84  
Old 06-25-2022, 5:43 PM
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My take is that rights do not require licenses, permits or fees to exercise. You can take the Constitution, hold it upside down and shake it all you like, its just not there. That should have been a vital part of this lawsuit that was left out.
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  #85  
Old 06-25-2022, 7:04 PM
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Some things that everyone should consider, you cannot sue the State for violating your rights as it has protection from the 11th Amendment but counties and cities are not included in the same protection. Cops get qualified immunity, judges get judicial immunity but cities and counties have no such protection in that way either.
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  #86  
Old 06-25-2022, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
Some things that everyone should consider, you cannot sue the State for violating your rights as it has protection from the 11th Amendment but counties and cities are not included in the same protection. Cops get qualified immunity, judges get judicial immunity but cities and counties have no such protection in that way either.
This should not be interpreted as legal advice but read up on the 14th Amendment, Section 5 and 42 U.S.C. § 1983. Here's an outline from the 9th Circuit about it.
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  #87  
Old 06-25-2022, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TheVazha View Post
Very good point. But it should be noted that this specific right can mean life or death for innocent people.

Don’t get me wrong, I fully support CC, but if you’ve observed the general public/tourists at gun ranges, you’d hopefully at least agree that some standard of proficiency should be reasonable.


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What other Constitutional Right is there where competency must be demonstrated to the Govt?

I'll wait...
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  #88  
Old 06-26-2022, 4:58 AM
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What other Constitutional Right is there where competency must be demonstrated to the Govt?

I'll wait...
Exactly. Does freedom of speech require competency? I think not. Take a look at our fearless leader. Obviously, a man with dementia can expound on his position all day long.
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  #89  
Old 06-26-2022, 6:34 AM
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such irony if our overseers now turn to a christian moral principle "Good Moral Character" to enforce their will despite being told they're wrong.

their depravity knows no bounds.
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  #90  
Old 06-26-2022, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by riderr View Post
The fee itself is really not huge and arguably covers the Sheriff's Office expenses (give or take). However, other mandatory requirements (training, fingerprints, etc) can not be subsidized from the public funds (aka taxes), so it puts the burden on you. The total cost can be a bit hefty, though
"other mandatory requirements" = other mandatory fees = taxes.

One of the biggest gaps in the SCOTUS decision, necessitated by the scope of the suit was the question of paying anyone anything to exercise a right. A right does not come with a price tag attached except that:

Far too many have laid down their lives, parts of their flesh, spilled their blood to defend the USC, the rights enumerated within it and the country, and to now say that anyone needs to pay anything beyond those ultimate sacrifices to exercise the very rights those sacrifices paid for is about as stupid as it gets.

There are people who are alive but gave parts of their bodies in payment of the defense of those rights and somehow, they are now asked to pay money for the same? What part of that makes any sense?





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  #91  
Old 06-26-2022, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderr View Post
The fee itself is really not huge and arguably covers the Sheriff's Office expenses (give or take). However, other mandatory requirements (training, fingerprints, etc) can not be subsidized from the public funds (aka taxes), so it puts the burden on you. The total cost can be a bit hefty, though
I disagree. Since SCOTUS has stated it’s a 1st class right, any fees to do the mandatory requirement would be similar to a poll tax, which is unconstitutional. That would be the same to require those same things to be done to vote.
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  #92  
Old 06-27-2022, 9:15 AM
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"Good moral character" as defined by what? In the People's Republic of California that's a mutable set of standards decided by the state and changed on a whim.

But I think it will be:
SUPPORT ALL THE CURRENT THINGS
Pro-abortion, pro-LGBTG, pro-Vax, pro-Whatever Gov Wants, pro-Illegal Immigration, pro-Ukraine, etc etc



Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Boy View Post
Looks like they are going to use the "good moral character" to still make it impossible (though I thought that was struck down too). Lots of easy catch all clauses in the quote above....

"Consideration of Honesty" - "he didn't seem honest to me"
"Trustworthiness" - "I don't know chief, I just didn't trust him"

etc....

And then requiring multiple letters of reference from people who have known you for at least X years and are willing to write a letter that says all the right things and submit themselves to interview just so you can get a CCW.....and perhaps they want to interview your neighbors so everyone knows you are applying for a CCW.

Seems like plenty of wiggle room to declare just about anyone lacks "good moral character". And of course they don't have the resources to conduct all these investigations, so your application will be delayed indefinitely.
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