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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
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Voters: 947. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11041  
Old 06-18-2019, 12:52 PM
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THG, ATHG, night HGSB, then night Rifle Skill Buider.

Hope they come out with replacement recoil springs for it soon.

When I went to mate it with the AR lower, it took me about an hour of hand filing of the back hole as it was a little off. Seems well built otherwise.
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  #11042  
Old 06-18-2019, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
THG, ATHG, night HGSB, then night Rifle Skill Buider.

Hope they come out with replacement recoil springs for it soon.

When I went to mate it with the AR lower, it took me about an hour of hand filing of the back hole as it was a little off. Seems well built otherwise.
What is the issue with the BRN-180 recoil springs?

Even with some AR uppers, I’ve had to try different ones before I find one that fits well. Tolerance stacking issues, I guess.

I’ve been hoping for this lower to come out;
http://ar180s.com/brn-180-fusion-iii-lower/


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Last edited by beanz2; 06-18-2019 at 2:46 PM..
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  #11043  
Old 06-19-2019, 5:13 AM
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I like to have spares, the set up is like my PS90. I'll bet you'll only get about 3000 rounds on them. Plus, since it's 223 Wylde, sometime I'll shoot 223, then higher 5.56, depending what's cheaper, so maybe 5.56 will wear it down quicker?

That lower would be nice, do you th8nk we can get it here?
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  #11044  
Old 06-19-2019, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
I like to have spares, the set up is like my PS90. I'll bet you'll only get about 3000 rounds on them. Plus, since it's 223 Wylde, sometime I'll shoot 223, then higher 5.56, depending what's cheaper, so maybe 5.56 will wear it down quicker?

That lower would be nice, do you th8nk we can get it here?
Got it. Since the upper is only sold by Brownells, spares can only come from them. It would be smart if they start selling spares for it. Wonder if the firing pin and extractor are unique to the BRN180?

I bet as a bare lower, you can get the receiver into CA. The problem would be CA compliance. Featureless grip fins would really ruin the special look, but I’m not familiar at all with the CA fixed mag options out there.

Anyway, I don’t want to let the thread drift too far from FS. So, I signed up for two Rifle Marksmanship Skill Builders this fall. This time I’ll have a much lighter AR. Even considering a backpack-mounted rifle rest like posted way above. Trying to have a light rifle that balances right at the magwell.


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  #11045  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:11 PM
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The BRN 180 upper is Heavy, hand guards and rails are metal.

Have fun at FS.

Hope to see some Cal Gunners the next two weeks.
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  #11046  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:29 PM
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LCU or anyone else - are you going to any special meetings hosted by Piazza during the July 4th week? If so please give a report. Thanks!

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  #11047  
Old 06-19-2019, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
The BRN 180 upper is Heavy, hand guards and rails are metal.

Have fun at FS.

Hope to see some Cal Gunners the next two weeks.

Thanks. No, the BRN180 upper is just for fun plinking at the range. I'm building a lightweight AR with a Larue pencil barrel.

You have fun at FS. Hope the desert sun has mercy on you.


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  #11048  
Old 06-19-2019, 5:20 PM
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LCU or anyone else - are you going to any special meetings hosted by Piazza during the July 4th week? If so please give a report. Thanks!

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https://www.frontsight.com/seminar.asp
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  #11049  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:09 AM
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LCU or anyone else - are you going to any special meetings hosted by Piazza during the July 4th week? If so please give a report. Thanks!

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Sorry, won't be going. Have gone in the past, wife doesn't want to go.
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  #11050  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Thanks. No, the BRN180 upper is just for fun plinking at the range. I'm building a lightweight AR with a Larue pencil barrel.

You have fun at FS. Hope the desert sun has mercy on you.


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  #11051  
Old 06-23-2019, 8:44 AM
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Anyone present for the ND at ATHG last Friday?

Guy did not decock. Finger in the trigger while reholstering and shot himself in the leg, bullet ricochet on the concrete and struck the last next to him in the arm.

https://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp


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  #11052  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Anyone present for the ND at ATHG last Friday?

Guy did not decock. Finger in the trigger while reholstering and shot himself in the leg, bullet ricochet on the concrete and struck the last next to him in the arm.

https://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp


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What’s the thinking behind the concrete walkways?


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  #11053  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:26 AM
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What’s the thinking behind the concrete walkways?


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Several ranges have them for wheelchair/handicap access.

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  #11054  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:36 AM
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What’s the thinking behind the concrete walkways?


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Beats standing on gravel imo, but if it's a ND hazard well s---, I'll stand on gravel any day. I take it the ND'er and his/her victim are ok?

Scary how that stuff happens. I was in a HG skill builder and the kid next to me did that, but it was dry practice drill.
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  #11055  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:42 AM
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Incident report

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  #11056  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:44 AM
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The link does not work for me. Is it copyright? Can you post it here?


I was in Bakersfield for 2 ND’s

One guy shot his leg while holstering- I was not on the range where it happened.
Same story. Semi auto, decocker, fired while in count 2 if I recall

Gun was evaluated and no issues found. Most likely 2 safety violations. No decocking and finger on trigger too soon.




Next was the guy on my right. We were doing injured drills.
So drawing, firing support hand from strong side holster.

1911 - left the safety off intentionally so when he would grab the gun and reverse it in the holster to the get a firing grip, it went bang. Round went down his pants and into the dirt. Missed the shooter. The bruise on his thigh from the muzzle blast was huge.



Third- shotgun class, idiot shot steel with a slug. It was a birdshot only drill up close on steel. The slug ricocheted and took out the window on a Ford Explorer.

It was really obvious who made the mistake and who got to pay for car repairs.
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  #11057  
Old 06-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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What’s the thinking behind the concrete walkways?


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  #11058  
Old 06-23-2019, 1:00 PM
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When I was at 4DDHG a year ago, one young girl ND'd onto the concrete in front of us. (she was standing immediately to my left).

Most recent 4DDHG, a young guy torches one off going into his holster. Luckily, it missed him completely.
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  #11059  
Old 06-23-2019, 1:17 PM
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Improper input == improper response... The firearm doesn't care of your skill level, age, gender, political preference, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Anyone present for the ND at ATHG last Friday?

....

https://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp
It was in THG not ATHG.

I have attended THG/ATHG only once (and quite recently) - and I find that the students/participants in THG are still not as "refined" and/or consistent as those in ATHG.

I have observed a few "wild cards" in my 2-day THG, and wouldn't be surprised with an ND (just keep me out of it)...

Well, to be fair, I saw one in ATHG - while doing a one-handed rack against the belt, hooking it in the front near the buckle, the student still had the trigger finger inside the trigger guard/resting on the trigger. I told the student after the drill, who was was grateful and corrected it the following rep...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Scary how that stuff happens. I was in a HG skill builder and the kid next to me did that, but it was dry practice drill.
Now thinking about it - I may have to reconsider my plan of trying 2-day SB to further refine my performance in the Skills Test.

I am guessing that the majority of those in the Handgun SB are those trying to get a DG to get in the more advanced classes. Some may push themselves beyond their limits, etc. Wouldn't that be a more "riskier" class? Somebody please chime in, please?

Hhhmmm.... I will just put my "President" membership to use by getting SB private training.

_

Last edited by rodralig; 06-23-2019 at 1:19 PM..
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  #11060  
Old 06-23-2019, 1:56 PM
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I'm going to the two night handgun course on July 2/3; anyone have a handheld light recommendation for that class?

thank you for your input.
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  #11061  
Old 06-23-2019, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by swruger View Post
I'm going to the two night handgun course on July 2/3; anyone have a handheld light recommendation for that class?

thank you for your input.
Mid-output flashlights like Surefire's EDCL1-T...?

Personally, I used the 650-lumen Stiletto OR for the single-output Fury DFT for handheld (I was switching between the two to find what works for the scenario), and the X300U for the WML in the night shoots (THG/ATHG).


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  #11062  
Old 06-23-2019, 3:34 PM
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This is why one the first day my wife likes to take target-postion #1, one less person next to her and most people are right handed, so they holster away from her. We were there when during the last day skill builder test years ago, the same thing happened next to us when we were on the line taking our tests, since then- she tries to get # 1as she doent trust anyone anymore.
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  #11063  
Old 06-23-2019, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
It was in THG not ATHG.

I have attended THG/ATHG only once (and quite recently) - and I find that the students/participants in THG are still not as "refined" and/or consistent as those in ATHG.

I have observed a few "wild cards" in my 2-day THG, and wouldn't be surprised with an ND (just keep me out of it)...
I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it's just important to maintain your situational awareness and try to notice if the people near you on the firing line are unsafe. I'm sure we have all spotted those folks fairly quickly.

I just got back from the 2-Day THG 6/21-22. The ND incident was a few ranges over from us, during the low-light lecture on the range, right after the evening classroom session IIRC.

The people in my course that I was able to observe were safe. In fact, I felt much safer in that course than in 4DDHG where you have people of varying levels of experience. I don't think a few points difference on the skills test really shows that one person is safer than the other.
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  #11064  
Old 06-23-2019, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swruger View Post
I'm going to the two night handgun course on July 2/3; anyone have a handheld light recommendation for that class?

thank you for your input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Mid-output flashlights like Surefire's EDCL1-T...?

Personally, I used the 650-lumen Stiletto OR for the single-output Fury DFT for handheld (I was switching between the two to find what works for the scenario), and the X300U for the WML in the night shoots (THG/ATHG).


_
After attending my first night shoot, I would recommend a multi-mode light. Probably the EDCL1-T mentioned, or a Malkoff M61T with a HL switch. I brought a G2Z-MV and did not end up liking it.

1) In order to clear the range, the instructors ask you to illuminate your hands as you cup the end of the light against your body. My high lumen light got too hot very quickly.

2) When taping up targets, I was not able to use my light. My buddy had a low lumen mode which he used so that we could tape our targets.

Oh and, WMLs are awesome, I do understand the benefits of the Harries technique, but I did not like shooting with it. The grip is strange. I would recommend having both a WML and an auxiliary handheld light for the tasks mentioned previously.
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  #11065  
Old 06-23-2019, 6:38 PM
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was wondering how long before someone posted the most recent incident.
I read online from a friend of the guy who had the ND that he was using a new holster that was very snug and he was having to really use some force to holster.

Mistake #1.

not decocking his firearm was where this REALLY went south and given the amount of effort needed to holster, I guess those two conditions combined resulted in the incident.
Sounds like he'll be okay (after a bit of a recovery period) and the lady next to him who took the round into her arm was a trooper and finished out the class.


as for the Skill Builder, I wouldn't worry about it, as with most courses at FS, it's kind of luck of the draw.
I've been in some SB's where there were a few students who definitely needed some extra attention and then a buddy of mine a few weeks ago was in a SB where almost 75% of the class DG'd. He said it was one of the best shooting classes he's ever seen.

as for the flashlight; something with mid range lumens, with a tail switch and preferrably NO strobe feature is what you want.
I keep wanting to take the ATHG with a WML but that just seems to easy so I force myself to use a handheld light for extra practice.
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  #11066  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:20 PM
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Can someone enlighten me on Two-Day Defensive Handgun vs Four-Day Defensive Handgun course for a new shooter? What are the differences in training besides two extra days?
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  #11067  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
as for the Skill Builder, I wouldn't worry about it, as with most courses at FS, it's kind of luck of the draw.
I've been in some SB's where there were a few students who definitely needed some extra attention and then a buddy of mine a few weeks ago was in a SB where almost 75% of the class DG'd. He said it was one of the best shooting classes he's ever seen.
Sweet...! Noted... Thanks for the insight, as always...

Quote:
as for the flashlight; something with mid range lumens, with a tail switch and preferrably NO strobe feature is what you want.
Yeah, more importantly - NO STROBE!

In night drills, there was this funny instructor... He remarked something along like "is this a disco party?" when one of the students accidentally did a strobe... Hahahaha!!!

Quote:
I keep wanting to take the ATHG with a WML but that just seems to easy so I force myself to use a handheld light for extra practice.
In my case, I did half of the duration using Harries; and half using WML. There were a few cases that I had to do a cheek index (when shooting concealed from a corner).


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  #11068  
Old 06-24-2019, 2:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northridgegun View Post
Can someone enlighten me on Two-Day Defensive Handgun vs Four-Day Defensive Handgun course for a new shooter? What are the differences in training besides two extra days?
2 day Handgun is literally the first two days of the 4 day HG.
Only change is the 2 day students get a modified simulator Bay shoot on day 2.
The 4 day is the way to go if you can get the time off. The 2 days just go by too quickly, just as you're getting into it it's over.
In 4 day you learn engaging multiple adversaries, a better simulator bay, get to shoot steel, etc.
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Old 06-24-2019, 3:31 AM
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I cringe every time i see somebody slamming their pistol back into the holster. Glad the shooter next to him was ok
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  #11070  
Old 06-24-2019, 4:25 AM
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If someone were looking to move on to a higher course they would have to come back and go through a 4 day or a 2 day skill builder to test out.
Really the lessons that you learn are really learned and practices on day 3 and 4 and I think those are the days that make the greatest improvement in the student.
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Old 06-24-2019, 6:19 AM
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4 Day for the win! Such a blast!!! The wife and I rank this as one of our best vacations. Still trying to weasel time to get back.


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  #11072  
Old 06-24-2019, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
2 day Handgun is literally the first two days of the 4 day HG.
Only change is the 2 day students get a modified simulator Bay shoot on day 2.
The 4 day is the way to go if you can get the time off. The 2 days just go by too quickly, just as you're getting into it it's over.
In 4 day you learn engaging multiple adversaries, a better simulator bay, get to shoot steel, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
4 Day for the win! Such a blast!!! The wife and I rank this as one of our best vacations. Still trying to weasel time to get back.


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Sold! When's the best time to go? Summer too hot? Is it all day training?
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  #11073  
Old 06-24-2019, 9:25 AM
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There are evening classes discussing mind set, color code, and legalities
Best time to go is March -May and October & November. Otherwise too hot or too cold.
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Old 06-24-2019, 9:53 AM
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I used a streamlight protac 2LX for thg/athg. It has hi/ strobe/low, and i found it to work well. Never used the strobe, but like someone said having a low setting keeps your hand from cooking on the turn and face. I wouldn't shy away from strobe enabled lights, just know how to run your equipment
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  #11075  
Old 06-24-2019, 10:09 AM
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I used a small keychain light on a lanyard around my neck to use as a secondary light for administrative use. A red one would help with night vision. I like my weapons light to be simple on/off, one click, one brightness.

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  #11076  
Old 06-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
If someone were looking to move on to a higher course they would have to come back and go through a 4 day or a 2 day skill builder to test out.
Really the lessons that you learn are really learned and practices on day 3 and 4 and I think those are the days that make the greatest improvement in the student.
correct.
You can now move on to Tactical Handgun with a graduate in the 4 day but if you want to move past that to Advanced and eventually Combat Master you need a DG which can be had in the 4 day class or the Skill Builder. It's the same test, just shot on turners in the SB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by northridgegun View Post
Sold! When's the best time to go? Summer too hot? Is it all day training?
Yup, it'a all day training. Day 1 is the longest as you have to go through an introduction video in the classroom, weapons inspection, sign waivers, etc so you're probably on property by 7 am in order to be in the classroom at 8 am.
Days 2-4 the class officially starts at 8 am but there is always supervised dry practice starting at 7:40 am if you're there a little early.

As for the best time to go, depends on you and what your weather preference / tolerance is.
This time of year it's Hot and can hit triple digits. September is still hot, October is cooler, November can be nice but then December and Jan tend to be cold and wet.
I think most people try to go in the Spring but I've gone at all different times of the year and you just need to prep for it.

Remember, there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
There are evening classes discussing mind set, color code, and legalities
Best time to go is March -May and October & November. Otherwise too hot or too cold.
Yup.
Although it's the desert so you never really know what you're going to get.
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  #11077  
Old 06-24-2019, 12:39 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
I used a small keychain light on a lanyard around my neck to use as a secondary light for administrative use. A red one would help with night vision. I like my weapons light to be simple on/off, one click, one brightness.

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CLEVER! I'm going to do that next time
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  #11078  
Old 06-24-2019, 2:18 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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I've never been present for an ND with injury at Front Sight, but I've seen plenty of NDs. Generally speaking, they've all been downrange a few feet into the gravel. Probably all but 1 of those have been from a shooter somewhere in the range of positions 1 to 5. Combine that with the most common safety infraction being 'muzzle pointing dangerously left' during manipulations and my preferred position is always as far to the right as possible.
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Old 06-24-2019, 3:25 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
I've never been present for an ND with injury at Front Sight, but I've seen plenty of NDs. Generally speaking, they've all been downrange a few feet into the gravel. Probably all but 1 of those have been from a shooter somewhere in the range of positions 1 to 5. Combine that with the most common safety infraction being 'muzzle pointing dangerously left' during manipulations and my preferred position is always as far to the right as possible.
I've seen slam fires and NDs during a malfunction clearance. All in a safe direction
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  #11080  
Old 06-24-2019, 4:27 PM
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Citizen_B Citizen_B is offline
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I'm sure some people think I'm weird, but I always have ear pro on when doing "dry fire" manipulation drills at the line. It's not for myself.
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