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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:20 AM
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Question How many carry concealed short barreled .38 Special & .357 Magnums

How many carry concealed short barreled .38 Specials & .357 Magnums? What is your preferred carry ammo and why?
Is anyone carrying Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point loading using the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet?

I am interested in how many carry .38 Special +P in the short barrel .357 Magnum Revolvers and the .357 Magnum "Lite" loads more aimed toward self-defense as well as which ones you prefer. After doing some research into the Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point loading using the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet I have found it is on the heals on many "lite" .357 Magnum loads so I am interested in what others think of this ammo in guns like the S&W Performance Center 627 .357 Magnum 8 shot 2.6" model.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 03-04-2021, 10:25 AM
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My wife has a 38 spl.
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Old 03-04-2021, 10:44 AM
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So who carries an easy to conceal 38 ?
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Old 03-04-2021, 10:59 AM
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I don't have CC but I load my SP101 2.25 .357 with Speer Gold Dot +p .38spl 135g if this helps any. They point shoot pretty good and shoot even better aimed.
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:15 AM
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Yep. FBI load 158gr LSWCHP using low flash BE-86

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Old 03-04-2021, 11:31 AM
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All I’ll add is this: The Smith 638 is an awesome little gun.
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:34 AM
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I use the sw 442 airweight .38spcl 5% of the time. 95% g19 gen4
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:37 AM
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I've carried an S&W 442 Airweight and Ruger LCR (.38 Special +P) for years. I do not carry a .357 Magnum (even though I had my GP100 on my license for a few years).

Very easy and light to conceal. Pleasant to shoot. I don't load them with any fancy SD ammo, just plain old +P 125 grain JHP.

Dan
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:44 PM
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Speer LE 38spl 125gr Gold Dots in a S&W J-frame (442) is my carry gun probably 80% of the time.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:49 PM
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How about the S&W 686 Plus 3" anyone? A Seven Shot L-Frame .357 Magnum.


or an Eight Shot S&W Performance Center 627 2.6" cut for full moon clips from the factory? It would be one heck of a back-up piece loaded with Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Speer .38 Special Gold Dot bullets! Weighing 37.8 oz. there would not be much recoil or recovery time between shots. How would that ring the bad guys chimes especially in states that are limiting magazine capacity in autos to ten rounds?



The study of Tactical Anatomy and shot placement in conjunction with the best ammunition plays a vital role in incapacitation as fast as possible and is not necessarily related to but can result in the mortality of the assaulter in my humble opinion.

Tactical Anatomy is an innovative approach to marksmanship that has begun to revolutionize law enforcement firearms training. ... We train law enforcement officers in the critical anatomic zones of the human body, and how to visualize these vital zones in 3 dimensions from any angle of presentation. This would be especially important with less powerful rounds like the .38 Special.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 03-04-2021, 1:00 PM
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I don't carry a .357 (or have one for HD) because of the sharp muzzle blast. At my age, I don't need anymore damage to my hearing. A .38 Special +P or 9mm is very effective as self defense caliber.

Dan
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Old 03-04-2021, 1:05 PM
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When I had a. CCW—when I lived in Florida—I sometimes carried my wife’s .38 snubbie. It was good in situations where I wasn’t wearing a belt, especially with shorts.
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Old 03-04-2021, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I don't carry a .357 (or have one for HD) because of the sharp muzzle blast. At my age, I don't need anymore damage to my hearing. A .38 Special +P or 9mm is very effective as self defense caliber.

Dan
One does not have to load a .357 with Full Bore .357 Magnum ammo but can load it with ammo like the Underwood .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point using Speer Gold Dot .38 Special Bullets at 1200 fps rated out of a 4" barrel which is .357 Magnum lite velocity and in a .357 handgun with its addition weight would be easier to control and shoot accurately. Its just a thought.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.
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Old 03-04-2021, 1:36 PM
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I remember years ago reading in a paper gun magazine (anybody remember those?)
that a survey was done at some type of fancy dress up NRA or second amendment rights gun dinner (probably fundrai$ing) and almost everyone was carrying Smith & Wesson J frames, with the exception of a few old school hardcore 1911/24/7 guys.

I don't think the survey would be so one-sided if they did the same thing at some fancy Second Amendment fundraising dinner these days. And I say that even though I even though I really like revolvers and the advantages they bring to the table.
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Old 03-04-2021, 2:00 PM
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I also owned and carried a custom 1911 loaded with HPs for many years when I lived in Wyoming for "social occasions" to deal with the two legged animals and a 5.5" Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum loaded with Randy Garrett 330 grain Hammerheads (330-gr SuperHardCast Long-Hammerhead at 1400-fps from 7.5” barrel; 1275-fps from 4” barrel) for the Grizzlies where I scouted and hunted in blowdown timber in Western Wyoming far above Jackson Hole to the east and north, where encounters could be at handshake distances. Randy Garrett 330 grain Hammerheads sting a might. Thank God, I never had to use either gun!!! Different guns have different purposes and some do them better than others. I stayed away from both types of trouble as far as I could but you can't always do that as trouble sometimes seeks you out so it is best to be prepared. Yea, I'm an old Elmer Keith throwback that believes in making BIG holes in things; it is just how I was raised. He, He.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 03-04-2021, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaparockCal View Post
One does not have to load a .357 with Full Bore .357 Magnum ammo but can load it with ammo like the Underwood .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point using Speer Gold Dot .38 Special Bullets at 1200 fps rated out of a 4" barrel which is .357 Magnum lite velocity and in a .357 handgun with its addition weight would be easier to control and shoot accurately. Its just a thought.
I find the aluminum framed .38 Special revolvers (442, LCR) much lighter and easier to carry. I typically pocket carry these with an Uncle Mike pocket holster. I practice with these often and shoot them very well, they are excellent, accurate handguns. My wife has a 642 and it is her favorite gun for recreational or defensive practice shooting.

My GP100 is mostly a range toy. It can be pressed into service as an HD weapon but I do not practice with it as such.

I also carry a S&W 9mm Shield which again, is light and compact. Slender also. My G19 (actually both of our G19s) are relegated to HD although I have mine listed on my license and have carried it OWB 3:00 on several occasions.

I also just purchased a Kimber K6S 3" DASA revolver. Even though it is .357, I load it with handloads at levels between .38 Special +P and full house .357 Magnum. A range toy, not intended for HD or concealed carry but would be ideal for either role.

Dan

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Old 03-04-2021, 2:15 PM
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I carried a Model 60, with a bobbed hammer, in my left front pocket for roughly 30 years. It concealed very well. The micro-revolver has it thickness mostly in the cylinder and tapers in the grip, trigger and barrel. That really helps concealment and comfort. I never found a semi-auto that would conceal as easily. During my time in Alaska, I carried a Detonics cut-down 1911 as a back-up, it matched up to my 1911 duty gun, but when I came to California my agency required revolvers until we went to Beretta's. I stayed with the Model 60 as a back-up because it concealed so well.

It's pretty pointless to use .357 ammo in such a small weapon. The short barrel isn't going to get the bullet up to speed, and the muzzle blast will harm your second shot accuracy.

If I were doing it all over, I'd go with one of the shrouded, alloy versions of the Model 60. But I'm too old to do it all over.
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Old 03-04-2021, 2:25 PM
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Well Rick, I'm getting there with the nerve damage setting into my hands but at least it just kills the pain so it makes me have to just grip harder as I can't hardly feel how hard I am gripping anymore as my hands are ever so slowly getting numb. My feet are already numb; that is why I walk with a cane because I can't feel the ground where I am walking. It is especially bad at night when I can't see the ground. I walked upon some broken glass on the floor in our house and did not know it until I came back and saw the bloody foot prints. I can't really feel the trigger anymore. I have to go by a sensation of pressure and not really by feeling the trigger as I did when I was younger. It sucks but what can I do as that is how my body is now. My wife and I don't expect to live much longer but then the doctors can't tell us for sure anything but that our bodies are breaking down. I worked around extremely toxic chemicals for 30 years and now I am paying the price and there is nothing I or any doctor can do about it; it is just the way it is and I have already seen "Death's Door" once already and been turned around. I am ready when its my time.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 03-04-2021, 3:01 PM
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One of the reasons I started this thread was because of the disparity of information out there about the differences between some .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammo. I would really like to see these two compared side by side in a real world test to see just how much difference there really is. Lucky Gunner has not tested Underwood Ammo Rounds at all.

I am a ballistics nut, I know and I like to see things compared head to head so people can then make up their minds as to which meets their needs at what price point, recoil, muzzle blast, etc. in order to make intelligent informed decisions. What say you? The nice thing about owning a .357 Magnum is you can shoot mild target .38 Wadcutters all the way up to barnstormer heavy for caliber fire breathing hard cast magnum loads in it.

Take .357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD ammo which is one of the top performing .357 Magnum ammo out of both 2" and 4" barrels in LuckyGunner.com's ballistic tests online - https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...cs-test/#38spl and compare it to the performance of Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point using the .38 Special Speer 125 grain Gold Dot bullet rated at 1250 FPS out of a 4" barrel and it is not far off performance for a .38 Special +P round at a much cheaper price and much less muzzle blast. Look at the rating on .357 Mag - 125 Grain Barnes TAC-XPD box for a 2" barrel below and compare it to the Underwood .38 Special +P. I wonder how close they would be say out of a S&W Performance Center 627 2.6" 8 shot revolver comparing velocity, muzzle blast, and easy of controlling for accuracy? How much real difference would there be? The .357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD ammo .357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD ammo tested at 1418 FPS out of a 4" barrel and 1251 FPS in the Lucky Gunner 2" barrel test.

This is the expansion of the .357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD out of a 2" barrel.



Underwood .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
TECHNICAL INFORMATION:
Cartridge : .38 Special +P
Bullet Brand : Speer®
Bullet Weight (gr) : 125
Bullet Construction : Jacketed Hollow Point
Bullet Model : Bonded
BALLISTICS INFORMATION Test barrel 4"
Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs) : 434
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,250
Sectional Density : 0.140
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

Last edited by PaparockCal; 03-04-2021 at 3:29 PM..
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Old 03-04-2021, 3:57 PM
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Default MY SHORT BARREL .357

CHIAPPA MARES LEG1111.jpg
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Old 03-04-2021, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
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Mare's Leg
The Mare's Leg is the name given to a customized shortened rifle used by Steve McQueen's character on the television series Wanted: Dead or Alive. McQueen's character was named Josh Randall, and the gun has also been referred to as a Winchester Randall, or a Randall Special.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.
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Old 03-04-2021, 5:43 PM
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If you go on Lucky Gunners website and look at the ballistics results for the Winchester Elite PDX1 Defender .357 Mag 125 gr JHP both the 4" and the 2" results it seems they may parallel the ballistics of the Underwood .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point using the .38 Special Speer Gold Dot bullet loading.

The Winchester Elite PDX1 Defender .357 Mag 125 gr JHP is rated at 1215 FPS out of a 4" barrel while the Underwood .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point using the .38 Special Speer Gold Dot bullet is rated at 1250 FPS out of a 4" barrel by their testing. I personally find this very interesting!!! I would really like to see a YouTube video of these two rounds also tested side by side! INTERESTING!
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

Last edited by PaparockCal; 03-04-2021 at 5:46 PM..
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Old 03-04-2021, 5:51 PM
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When I first started carrying, I carried either a 442 or 642. I now carry an LCP and Seecamp more often, I sold my Glock 43 and still have a 42 and a 26.
Today I’d carry my 640 Pro before the 442/642
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Old 03-04-2021, 7:45 PM
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Who thinks this will have any trouble expanding at 2" 38 +P velocities?



I am of the opinion that over penetration would not be an issue?

.
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Old 03-04-2021, 8:38 PM
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I sometimes times carry a lightweight S&W 642 in urban environs with 125gr +p Critical Defense --with the red nylon tip. When I was researching defensive rounds I read that .38sp hollow points tend to plug up going through certain clothing and can zip right through (over penetrate). The nylon tip is meant to help ensure expansion in such circumstances. I also have a 3-inch S&W 60 in full .357 that I carry in the wilds, if not my Redhawk.
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Old 03-04-2021, 8:54 PM
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If I could find some, I'd probably buy it and carry it. All I have for carry ammo for my snubby 357 is gold dots and hydrashoks. I haven't seen decent carry 357 ammo in a while, but it seems like it's been ages for 38!
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Old 03-04-2021, 8:55 PM
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My ex-father-in-law had a friend once touched off a full house .357 125gr. with the 4" muzzle still well inside his truck cab shooting out the window. His ears rang for two days.
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.
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Old 03-04-2021, 10:49 PM
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I have one on my permit, but seldom carry it. Ruger LCR .357, but I carry these in it because of my girly hands. Oh, and folks that think .357 doesn't up you game in a short barreled snubbie, need to check out the Lucky Gunner ammo comparisons.


https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...s-test/#357mag
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:28 PM
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I like my Night Cobra. Great to hold on to in a jacket pocket when stollin'!
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:27 AM
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I carry the 642 light weight in a pocket as a backup. Great gun.
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Old 03-05-2021, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaparockCal View Post
How many carry concealed short barreled .38 Specials & .357 Magnums? What is your preferred carry ammo and why?
Is anyone carrying Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point loading using the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet?

I am interested in how many carry .38 Special +P in the short barrel .357 Magnum Revolvers and the .357 Magnum "Lite" loads more aimed toward self-defense as well as which ones you prefer. After doing some research into the Underwood's .38 Special +P 125gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point loading using the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet I have found it is on the heals on many "lite" .357 Magnum loads so I am interested in what others think of this ammo in guns like the S&W Performance Center 627 .357 Magnum 8 shot 2.6" model.


I have an 8-shot 627. Regardless of barrel length I think it’s too large to carry practically. I’d carry a 1911 before a 627. I do occasionally carry a 5-shot J-frame, the scandium/titanium model from S&W, and it’s a fantastic carry gun. It’s light weight and fairly low profile so I can actually carry it in a front pocket of slacks or IWB. Depends on what I’m wearing. As for ammo in my J-frame I use .357 magnum loads with something near a 160 grain JHP. It’s jumpy but it’s not a load I’m shooting for pleasure.


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Old 03-05-2021, 7:08 AM
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When I carried 2.25" SP101 it was loaded with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .357
https://www.speer.com/ammunition/han...9-23917GD.html

135 grain, 990 FPS from a 2" barrel
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Old 03-05-2021, 7:25 AM
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I have a 442 38 and then a couple years ago I got the 340PD in 357. The 340PD is great because it weighs like 11 ounces. I wanted it for weight and ability to shoot 357.

Here's the thing... after shooting 20 rounds of 357 125gr Rem HP my hand (web at base of thumb) was messed up.

I carry the gun because it fits comfortably in my pocket, but I have 38 +P ammo and some interceptor (non HP poly ARX) because a trip to SF.

I'm sure if I had to use 357 in a defense mode, my adrenalin should help with the hand pain though.

But I don't/ can't really practice with 357. I don't remember for sure, but I'm pretty sure the 357 chrono'd at around 1150fps though.
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  #34  
Old 03-05-2021, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaparockCal View Post
My ex-father-in-law had a friend once touched off a full house .357 125gr. with the 4" muzzle still well inside his truck cab shooting out the window. His ears rang for two days.
Decades ago one of the drivers for the trucking company I worked for was on his run at night from Los Angeles to Sacramento during the summer. He had his new 45 with him. Our cabs weren't air conditioned so his windows were opened. In between towns where it was open he aimed it out the passenger window. He couldn't hear for several hours. When he told us back in LA we all laughed.

If I'm just making a quick run to the market, it's usually my Colt Detective special loaded with Hornady Critical Defense in an AWIB holster. I had the hammer spur removed and the colt hard chromed by Terry Tussey back in the 80's when he was still in Orange, Ca. Too bad he's gone.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dbmosley View Post
I have an 8-shot 627. Regardless of barrel length I think it’s too large to carry practically. I’d carry a 1911 before a 627. I do occasionally carry a 5-shot J-frame, the scandium/titanium model from S&W, and it’s a fantastic carry gun. It’s light weight and fairly low profile so I can actually carry it in a front pocket of slacks or IWB. Depends on what I’m wearing. As for ammo in my J-frame I use .357 magnum loads with something near a 160 grain JHP. It’s jumpy but it’s not a load I’m shooting for pleasure.


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I totally understand and it depends on the size as well as the shape of the body of the individual as well as the type an style of holster used. I am 6'5" and at my last hospital visit for cardiac rehab, I weighed 299lbs as I have been slowly losing weight. My last carry gun was a Springfield Armory XD .45 Service model. I have also carried an Ed Brown custom full size Colt 1911 in the past and a highly custom S&W Model 57 41 Magnum 4" in the long ago past when I was younger and 230lbs. It all depends on what you are willing to stake your life on. I keep questioning if I want to go with a PC 627 2.6" or a PC 629 2.6" mainly because my experience with higher muzzle blast and pitch out the more effective rounds out of a .357 really bother my hearing where as even the blast of a full .44 Magnum does not bother me as much on the range even without hearing protection. It seems to be the higher frequency of the .357s "Crack" as opposed to the .44s "Boom"; I know it is just "my personal weirdness". What can I say?
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The phrase “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms” shows up in a draft of a proposed Virginia constitution in 1776. Subsequent drafts included the bracketed qualifier that “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].” Although this sentence did not find its way into the final version of the Virginia state constitution, it is documented in The Papers of Thomas Jefferson.

Last edited by PaparockCal; 03-05-2021 at 11:07 AM..
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