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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:46 PM
BeAuMaN BeAuMaN is online now
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Originally Posted by Joeflyer View Post
Tonight I spent about 10 minutes with Mr. Chu discussing AB 688.
Do you live in his legislative district? Asking since he talked to you.

iirc he was already supposed to be working on language regarding the frame, as seen in this video:

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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
http://calchannel.granicus.com/Media...7&clip_id=6038

Time: 3: 12: 00

I had to add spaces to the time, as the forum software interpreted them as emoticons

Notes; Assembly member Chu has minimal public speaking skills and minimal skills in speaking in understandable english.

;Discussion of exemptions for law enforcement as required amendments near the end (if I understand him correctly).
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  #162  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:58 PM
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Also... It seems that the leginfo tracking tool (I have this bill on my tracking list) doesn't e-mail you on every action the bill takes.

On 4/3, this bill was sent to the Assembly Committee on Appropriations suspense file.

Last edited by BeAuMaN; 04-16-2019 at 12:03 AM..
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  #163  
Old 04-16-2019, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
Last year I took the UT CCW course at LAX Westchester. The topic came up about having a gun stored in the car all the time in CA. The answer was NO. There was a law that you could only transport from A to B.
Can’t quote or guarantee but it was a firm NO from the NRA instructor.

Bounce that topic with caution or talk to a gun lawyer.
For me I’ll be extremely carful what I say If questioned.

Thank you for your direct answer to my question
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  #164  
Old 04-16-2019, 10:01 AM
mr goodguy mr goodguy is online now
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Quick question for someone who really knows or can direct me and the others of how to transport a long gun,handgun if your driving a pick up truck. Ex chevy truck or f150 it has a open bed.can you put a tool box and use it to legally transport a firearm? Thanks in advance
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  #165  
Old 04-16-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
Also... It seems that the leginfo tracking tool (I have this bill on my tracking list) doesn't e-mail you on every action the bill takes.

On 4/3, this bill was sent to the Assembly Committee on Appropriations suspense file.
Joy to the world!
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  #166  
Old 04-16-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mr goodguy View Post
Quick question for someone who really knows or can direct me and the others of how to transport a long gun,handgun if your driving a pick up truck. Ex chevy truck or f150 it has a open bed.can you put a tool box and use it to legally transport a firearm? Thanks in advance
Yes if it is a lockable and locked box. Technically, a locked rifle/pistol case behind the seat is legal, afaik, as long as the guns are unloaded. Many argue that the ammo has to be kept in a separate locked container, but there is no provision of the PC that requires ammo to be kept in a locked container in the first place. Last, if a cop wants to search your locked container, don't admit that it has a gun in it, and don't give permission for a search. Just say "No." Officers cannot open locked containers without a warrant.
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  #167  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:08 AM
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Now if Federal Agents would stop having firearms stolen from their vehicles.


ATF Agents Firearm Stolen in Front of Federal Court House in Oakland

FBI Agent's Gun Stolen From Car In San Francisco - LA Times
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  #168  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
Last year I took the UT CCW course at LAX Westchester. The topic came up about having a gun stored in the car all the time in CA. The answer was NO. There was a law that you could only transport from A to B.
Can’t quote or guarantee but it was a firm NO from the NRA instructor.

Bounce that topic with caution or talk to a gun lawyer.
For me I’ll be extremely carful what I say If questioned.
The question asked by Jumbi related to storage of firearms in vehicles, not transport.
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Originally Posted by Jumbi View Post
Can someone please answer this question directly:

If a handgun is in a locked container, say the box it came in, with a currently approved lock, and is out of plain sight, can it be stored in the vehicle 24/7?
But, let’s look at transport first and whether firearms can only be transported from point A to B.

There are, at present, only two statutes which require that firearms be transported only between specific locations.

The first CA PC 30945 covers Registered Assault Weapons. Let’s assume that wasn’t the subject in your CCW course.

The second is CA PEN 25505, which pertains to transporting firearms when outside of a vehicle. That’s most likely the subject of your discussion as it relates to carrying concealed weapons.

Finally, CA PEN 25610 allows for transport of firearms in motor vehicles, without destination restrictions, if the gun is unloaded and locked in the vehicle trunk or a secure container. Even the AG says this is OK.
/////

On to “storage” (which, ironically, brings us back to the subject of this bill.)
The current law, which this bill seeks to modify, requires, when a gun is left in an unattended vehicle, that the gun must be locked in a case and out of plain sight. This was brought about when a number of LEOs had firearms stolen from cars. For CCW holders, it answered the question of what constitutes a utility container and if after market containers could be used. That makes it the sole “storage” law regarding firearms in vehicles.

The storage period isn’t defined; only that the vehicle be “unattended”, as defined.

With that, given the ease with which anyone can smash and grab items from vehicles, including trunks, storing firearms within vehicles for long, unattended periods seems stupid.
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  #169  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:28 PM
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I am in Chu’s district. I didn’t see anything in the video referring to “frames”. But I did see that the district attorney emphasized long guns, just as Chu did. I mentioned to Chu that I didn’t think that most gun owners would have a problem with long guns in a locked case, but the chain/cable requirement, as written, was unworkable.
I noticed in the video that the district attorney spoke in general about how many long guns were stolen from vehicles in Alameda county. Why not state a specific number? She also used the term “assault weapons” two times.
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  #170  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Joeflyer View Post
Tonight I spent about 10 minutes with Mr. Chu discussing AB 688. The more questions I asked, them he more I felt he did not write the bill, nor know exactly what was in it.

I showed him two small handgun cases-one metal with a cable and one plastic. [...]He showed genuine interest in them.[..]He was surprised when I told him that those cases were legal for transporting a handgun on an airliner (checked luggage).

We talked about the frame problem. He said that he would see if he could change the wording ...

He agreed that the 3/8" cable was unnecessary and that the smaller (1/8") cable would be sufficient.

He mentioned that more stringent requirements would help prevent bad guys from stealing firearms.
Let’s see how close I was in Feb.
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  #171  
Old 04-16-2019, 3:16 PM
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When I transport my hunting MSR rifle from camp to my hunting area it is laying on the back seat of my truck and the loaded magazine on the passenger seat and another in the day pack sitting next to the rifle. I'm not likely to change that practice. When transporting it back to camp mid day it's leaning against the passenger seat and the magazine laying on the seat handy for use should I see a dandy buck along the way. It ain't going in the bed of the truck, inside the camper shell or in a locked case inside. Unless I'm mistaken unloaded long guns can be transported open in a vehicle. The fish and game code even allows transport of a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle off the main highway as long as there is no round in the chamber.
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  #172  
Old 04-16-2019, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lapriester View Post
When I transport my hunting MSR rifle from camp to my hunting area it is laying on the back seat of my truck and the loaded magazine on the passenger seat and another in the day pack sitting next to the rifle. I'm not likely to change that practice. When transporting it back to camp mid day it's leaning against the passenger seat and the magazine laying on the seat handy for use should I see a dandy buck along the way. It ain't going in the bed of the truck, inside the camper shell or in a locked case inside. Unless I'm mistaken unloaded long guns can be transported open in a vehicle. The fish and game code even allows transport of a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle off the main highway as long as there is no round in the chamber.
This statute pertains to leaving firearms in unattended vehicles.
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  #173  
Old 04-16-2019, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lapriester View Post
When I transport my hunting MSR rifle from camp to my hunting area it is laying on the back seat of my truck and the loaded magazine on the passenger seat and another in the day pack sitting next to the rifle. I'm not likely to change that practice. When transporting it back to camp mid day it's leaning against the passenger seat and the magazine laying on the seat handy for use should I see a dandy buck along the way. It ain't going in the bed of the truck, inside the camper shell or in a locked case inside. Unless I'm mistaken unloaded long guns can be transported open in a vehicle. The fish and game code even allows transport of a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle off the main highway as long as there is no round in the chamber.
But I bet you don't do that on the drive to camp or back home, which is the principal concern here--transporting on public roads. Chu's bill reflects the perspective of a typical urban nonhunter who did not consider hunters at all, only the problem of leaving guns in unattended vehicles where BGs are likely to break into them. Or least ways the views of the idiot lackey who wrote the bill.
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  #174  
Old 04-16-2019, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Weyoun View Post
Which part of the car is the frame? Are cars going to start having a LATCH system for gun boxes like they do for baby seats?
The car seat tethers on the backs of the seats or the floor of the vehicle are exactly what i use....

My mom's car has car seat tether anchors on the floor behind the back seats. I put her gun in an ammo box and used the stupid cable lock that came with the gun...put it through the paddle lock holes in the ammo box, and the car seat anchor.

But older vehicles don't even have those anchors. My son's car doesn't.
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  #175  
Old 04-16-2019, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
This is for unattended vehicle.

As-in leaving a gun in your car overnight or if you stop at the outlets to go shopping. For most people this won't be an issue.

If you're driving to and from the range or going hunting it doesn't apply.

I personally don't have an issue with this. I never leave a gun in the car overnight and I certainly wouldn't leave a gun in my saddle bag. Heck, I don't leave my motorcycle out overnight, why would I leave it out with a gun in it??
I do have an issue with it.

I like to stop for food on my way home from a hunting trip. this law was universal destination requirements!

If you even stop for GAS on the way somewhere, you can't go into the convenience store or bathroom!

Forget about buying a box of ammo on the way to a range or on the way back.

destination requirements is the sole reason I did not register any RAW. Sole reason.

I am very, very glad this law is on suspense.
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  #176  
Old 04-17-2019, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Joeflyer View Post
I noticed in the video that the district attorney spoke in general about how many long guns were stolen from vehicles in Alameda county.
I hate to go here but isn't Oakland and Alameda County safer because it is and has a Sanctuary City? With the Mayor of Oakland saying things like undocumented immigrants make their city safer I do not believe that guns could be stolen out of LEO's Cars or that guns be stolen at all. I mean doesn't the diversity of undocumented immigrants make this county safer than the rest of the US? The Governor of CA and Mayor of Oakland told us so. So why do we need more laws restricting when they have are in fact a more safe county than others because they have Sanctuary Cities.

Just a thought.
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  #177  
Old 04-17-2019, 1:54 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what is the "penalty" of keeping an unloaded gun locked in a container out of sight if I were to stop off at a restaurant for dinner after a day at the range with my buddies?
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  #178  
Old 04-17-2019, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeflyer View Post
I am in Chu’s district. I didn’t see anything in the video referring to “frames”. But I did see that the district attorney emphasized long guns, just as Chu did. I mentioned to Chu that I didn’t think that most gun owners would have a problem with long guns in a locked case, but the chain/cable requirement, as written, was unworkable.
I noticed in the video that the district attorney spoke in general about how many long guns were stolen from vehicles in Alameda county. Why not state a specific number? She also used the term “assault weapons” two times.
Yes, the... NRA advocate? Dan Reed... talks about the usage of the having to be locked to the "frame" of the car as troublesome because that's less of a thing because of unibody cars, among other things. This can be seen at 3: 19: 00 in the video.

Mr. Chu addresses this in 3: 23: 50 of the video. What I was getting is it's nice that he told you about the frame thing, however, he's already supposed to be addressing this. It's good though that you contacted him, as he needs to hear his constituents voice concern.

And yeah, I was watching the video again... I've e-mailed the DA of Alameda County's office asking for the research they did, or at the very least the book she held up, in pdf form.
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  #179  
Old 04-17-2019, 4:46 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what is the "penalty" of keeping an unloaded gun locked in a container out of sight if I were to stop off at a restaurant for dinner after a day at the range with my buddies?
None. You are legally transporting the gun in a vehicle. You are legally storing the gun in an unattended vehicle.
Re-read the citations in my previous post.
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  #180  
Old 04-17-2019, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
Also... It seems that the leginfo tracking tool (I have this bill on my tracking list) doesn't e-mail you on every action the bill takes.

On 4/3, this bill was sent to the Assembly Committee on Appropriations suspense file.
Outstanding.


I am still trying to understand how a tool box or utility box 'permanently' attached to a truck bed is any different than a car trunk that is arguably MORE 'permanently' attached to the vehicle. I think breaking into the tool box on my truck would be much easier than breaking into my car trunk.
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  #181  
Old 04-17-2019, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
Outstanding. I am still trying to understand how a tool box or utility box 'permanently' attached to a truck bed is any different than a car trunk that is arguably MORE 'permanently' attached to the vehicle. I think breaking into the tool box on my truck would be much easier than breaking into my car trunk.
That is existing statute.
Does your truck have a trunk? Of course not.

The original statute required the storage of the gun in a secure container in the vehicle. It didn’t consider the fact that pickup trucks may not have the room to do that, so the toolbox solution was added in the next year.

It’s important to understand that basic provisions of the law which the legislator seeks to amend currently exist, and are helpful for CCW carriers and gun owners in general.
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  #182  
Old 04-17-2019, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
That is existing statute.
Does your truck have a trunk? Of course not.

The original statute required the storage of the gun in a secure container in the vehicle. It didn’t consider the fact that pickup trucks may not have the room to do that, so the toolbox solution was added in the next year.

It’s important to understand that basic provisions of the law which the legislator seeks to amend currently exist, and are helpful for CCW carriers and gun owners in general.
Sure. But the proposed law would require the firearm(s) be secured to the 'frame' of the vehicle if stored in a car trunk. Not so if stored in a tool box or utility box on a truck. It makes no sense.
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  #183  
Old 04-17-2019, 6:18 PM
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Sure. But the proposed law would require the firearm(s) be secured to the 'frame' of the vehicle if stored in a car trunk. Not so if stored in a tool box or utility box on a truck. It makes no sense.
It's not supposed to make sense. It's supposed to be another way to make felons out of every firearms owner.
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  #184  
Old 04-17-2019, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
None. You are legally transporting the gun in a vehicle. You are legally storing the gun in an unattended vehicle.

Re-read the citations in my previous post.
Uhm what about registered assault weapons?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...5.&lawCode=PEN
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  #185  
Old 04-17-2019, 6:37 PM
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It's not supposed to make sense. It's supposed to be another way to make felons out of every firearms owner.
Yes. Sigh. It may also be that Mr. Chu (like many of our other legislators) does not comprehend how things actually work in reality.
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  #186  
Old 04-17-2019, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
Yes. Sigh. It may also be that Mr. Chu (like many of our other legislators) does not comprehend how things actually work in reality.
Well, I glossed over it originally, but the "sponsor" of the bill is Alameda County DA O'Malley. Her office has done a bunch of research supposedly. It's likely that she approached Mr. Chu with this bill proposition.
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  #187  
Old 04-17-2019, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
None. You are legally transporting the gun in a vehicle. You are legally storing the gun in an unattended vehicle.
Re-read the citations in my previous post.
Fabulous- I very much appreciate your info:

PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370] ( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370] ( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
DIVISION 5. CARRYING FIREARMS [25300 - 26405] ( Division 5 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
CHAPTER 2. Carrying a Concealed Firearm [25400 - 25700] ( Chapter 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

ARTICLE 4. Other Exemptions [25600 - 25655] ( Article 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

25610.
(a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with the provisions listed in Section 16580.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)


Last call for anyone who wishes to post anything contrary to this
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  #188  
Old 04-18-2019, 5:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
None. You are legally transporting the gun in a vehicle. You are legally storing the gun in an unattended vehicle.
Re-read the citations in my previous post.
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Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
Uhm what about registered assault weapons?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...5.&lawCode=PEN
My previous post, to which I referred, addressed RAW transport.
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  #189  
Old 04-18-2019, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BeAuMaN View Post
Well, I glossed over it originally, but the "sponsor" of the bill is Alameda County DA O'Malley. Her office has done a bunch of research supposedly. It's likely that she approached Mr. Chu with this bill proposition.
Yes, there is mention of the DA's Office in the bill analysis. There is also some justification for requiring a cable or chain lock in a car trunk vs. a truck tool box. The reasoning is that car trunks are often accessible from the passenger compartment.
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