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  #1  
Old 09-14-2021, 2:09 PM
HighValleyRanch HighValleyRanch is offline
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Default Suggstions on helping a family member sell his firearms

This is a "hypothetical" discussion.....

Say if a brother has cancer and needs to sell his large collection of firearms, pistols, assault weapons, rifles, etc.
From my understanding, if something happens to him, the ownership can go to his wife, but she is not into shooting at all, and wants nothing to do with them.

So the hypothetical plan is to transfer a majority of the weapons to his younger brother so that he can at some point resell them so that the wife will be able to recuperate some of his investments. He know that there is a limit of five transactions a year so he needs to get on thiis as soon as possible.

Is there a limit on how many he can sell or transfer in one transaction at a time, counting as one sale? Is there a length of time the younger brother would need to wait before reselling the firearms?

Would the law still consider this a straw purchase, since the sale is not really for profi

Open to any suggestions on how someone should deal with this situation.
This is not a troll.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2021, 2:47 PM
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Penal Code section 25600 is the general rule that only licensed gun dealers may sell firearms. Penal Code section 25620 is an exception to the general rule that a license is not needed if firearm sales are "infrequent."

"Infrequent" is defined under Penal Code section 16730. It says:
(a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:
(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.

(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.
(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.
So all of the above means, you can sell firearms in up to five Private Party Transactions from January 1 to December 31. Each transaction can have multiple firearms, but the total number of firearms that can be sold from January 1 to December 31 is 50.
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Old 09-14-2021, 2:51 PM
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- In CA, an interfamily transfer has to go up and down the family tree only, so no brother to brother transfer.
- But, Brother A can gift all guns to Mom or Dad who later gifts them to Brother B.
- There is no limit on the number of guns in one transaction.
- Brother A's wife will inherit his property subject to several conditions.
For example, guns he had before he got married are his only and he can gift or will them (and any other property / assets) to whoever he wants. A gun gifted directly to him while married is also his only. Other guns bought with common funds during the marriage are Community Property and go to his wife upon his passing.
- In the case of an estate sale or before passing, there is no limit on the number sold or transactions as this is a legally known "one time" event.
- Brother A should gift the firearms to Mom or Dad now, as back up he could put them going to Mom or Dad in a will too.
- There are threads on straw sales, basically it means the purchaser is not going to be the real owner, and the real owner is prohibited.
This is not a straw purchase situation unless you make it one.

This is a brief overview.
Hope this info helps.
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  #4  
Old 09-14-2021, 3:08 PM
one*eyed*jack one*eyed*jack is offline
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If the brother were to inherit the collection by behest (it has to be in the will) he would be exempt from the limit.

PC 26515.

Section 26500 does not apply to the sale, lease, or transfer of a firearm if both of the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) The sale, lease, or transfer is made by a person who obtains title to the firearm by any of the following means:

(1) Intestate succession or bequest.

(2) As the beneficiary of a trust that includes a firearm.

(3) As a surviving spouse pursuant to Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 13500) of Part 2 of Division 8 of the Probate Code.

(4) As decedent’s successor pursuant to Part 1 (commencing with Section 13000) of Division 8 of the Probate Code.

(b) The person disposes of the firearm within 60 days of receipt of the firearm.
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Old 09-14-2021, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one*eyed*jack View Post
If the brother were to inherit the collection by behest (it has to be in the will) he would be exempt from the limit.

PC 26515.

....
But, the transfer would still have to go through the CA FFL - inheritance in CA skips the FFL for only 'immediate family'.

In the unfortunate event of disposal contemplating death (not an inheritance) I would not expect LE concern that the seller would be a 'dealer without a license'.
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  #6  
Old 09-14-2021, 4:21 PM
HighValleyRanch HighValleyRanch is offline
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Since I am the Op with the hypotheical, lets say that there are no living parrents or children in this case.

Appreciate all the knowledgeable input here, which is why I posted this in the first place.

I am proposing that one of the other brothers might be a lawyer who can look at some of the discussed statutes here, so please keep steering in the right direction.

And perhaps some of the collection might possibly be legal California registered assault weapons which might pose more difficulty in disposing of through sales.
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2021, 4:25 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
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Assault weapons would have to be sold out of state or deregistered.
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Old 09-14-2021, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
- In CA, an interfamily transfer has to go up and down the family tree only, so no brother to brother transfer.
- But, Brother A can gift all guns to Mom or Dad who later gifts them to Brother B.
- There is no limit on the number of guns in one transaction.
- Brother A's wife will inherit his property subject to several conditions.
For example, guns he had before he got married are his only and he can gift or will them (and any other property / assets) to whoever he wants. A gun gifted directly to him while married is also his only. Other guns bought with common funds during the marriage are Community Property and go to his wife upon his passing.
- In the case of an estate sale or before passing, there is no limit on the number sold or transactions as this is a legally known "one time" event.
- Brother A should gift the firearms to Mom or Dad now, as back up he could put them going to Mom or Dad in a will too.
- There are threads on straw sales, basically it means the purchaser is not going to be the real owner, and the real owner is prohibited.
This is not a straw purchase situation unless you make it one.

This is a brief overview.
Hope this info helps.
That's not a very good thing to tell people to do. There is a law saying that transfers structured in a way to not use an FFL for firearms transfers is a bad thing. (I'm surprised others haven't mentioned it.)

Seeing as there is a 50 firearms transfer per year for non-FFL's, it would be better to just do a PPT. Sure it cost more, but you stay in the letter of the law that way. $39.17 for the DROS and $10 for every firearm.
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2021, 8:21 PM
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Call Lock, Stock and Barrel in Simi and just let them liquidate them all. Done.
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Old 09-14-2021, 8:39 PM
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5 transactions, grand total of 50 guns, per calendar year.

You can do 1 transaction @ 50 guns or 5 transaction @ 10 each.
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2021, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Assault weapons would have to be sold out of state or deregistered.
Reminder that...
Only the registered owner can legally deregister the RAW. [11 CCR 5478]
If the registered owner is deceased, then no one can legally deregister it as a RAW.

For a person that legally obtained possession of a RAW due to intestate succession, they have 90 days to do one of the following: [PC 30915]
A. Render the RAW permanently inoperable (destroy the receiver per ATF specifications). [PC 30915(a)]
B. Transfer the RAW to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons license or to an out-of-state FFL dealer. [PC 30915(b)]
C. Obtain a CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for AW. [PC 30915(c)]
D. Transport the RAW out-of-state for storage or for transfer through an out-of-state FFL dealer. [PC 30915(d)]
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-16-2021 at 5:49 AM..
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