Mandatory vaccine policy at my workplace coming up

[covingtonhouse]

Originally Posted by bigmike82

Do a google search for hospitals that require the flu vaccine as part of employment. It's been a thing for well over a decade.

Though the state allows you to decline, employers can mandate it.

Here's just one example of a multi-state hospital system that will fire you if you decline:

https://www.mdlinx.com/article/can-y...ights/lfc-3148

Flu vaccines go through the standard FDA testimg regime do they not? Therefore not released under EUA. Different rules apply. I find it funny that people don't grasp the difference, yet throw the anti-vaxxer label on those who do.

[f14peter]

Originally Posted by bigmike82

Do a google search for hospitals that require the flu vaccine as part of employment. It's been a thing for well over a decade.

Though the state allows you to decline, employers can mandate it.

Here's just one example of a multi-state hospital system that will fire you if you decline:

https://www.mdlinx.com/article/can-y...ights/lfc-3148

Then I'll amend my statement ... some hospitals don't ... and I've now heard of some places of employment that do.

My wife recently retired from the local hospital, and then (as of still now) they did not require even their direct health care providers to get a flu shot. There was a condition: Pre-COVID, providers who did not get a flu shot were required to wear masks and a badge noting they did not get a flue vax. But no requirement to get the shot or risk employment.

[bigmike82]

Originally Posted by f14peter

There was a condition: Pre-COVID, providers who did not get a flu shot were required to wear masks and a badge noting they did not get a flue vax. But no requirement to get the shot or risk employment.

Makes sense. That's technically all that LACDPH requires too.

[bigmike82]

Originally Posted by covingtonhouse

Different rules apply.

Not legally. Ethically, maybe. My employer has stated that they're not planning on doing the covid vaccine as a mandate. That could change though.

[Scota4570]

Leftists amaze me. The have no respect for others' freedom. They are ignorant by definition. They are bullies by choice. This flaw in human nature is how tyrants consolidate power, useful idiots.

Freedom includes the right to do whatever you want unless it negatively impacts somebody else. Avoiding vaccination has no impact on those who choose to be vaccinated. The Leftists all are all gleefully vaccinated, right? In a court we would say they have no standing to bring a cases. So, it is none of anyone else's business whether another person chooses not to be vaccinated.

Before somebody says it, the pandemic crisis is over. "Cases" are a nonsense metric. Deaths and hospitalizations are now few. It won't come back in force because the susceptible are already dead or recovered.

If freedom includes ingesting illegal drugs, being a bum, of having an abortion those rights are sacred. Those people tend to be stupid and lazy. Yet their choices are destructive to individuals and society. They are likely voters for the far left candidate so all is forgiven.

On the other hand, a person who rejects vaccination tends to be a person who is independent, free thinking and self supporting. They tend to be conservative. They are likely to vote wrong way so they are open season for persecution.

The main tactic being used to cause chaos in our society is pitting different groups against each other. IT includes political self identification, race, and gender identity. To me none of that is important. America has done great things when we work as a team of Americans, not hyphenated Americans. It no appears they are finding a new way to divide us against each other, vax or no vax.

[xrMike]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

How can they legally make it mandatory? I work in a hospital directly caring for patients in the East Bay and it's not even mandatory there.

My wife is an R.N. She got her 2 doses because she wanted to, but told me that her hospital could not force anybody to get them, or fire them if they refused.

My employer (high-tech firm in Milpitas) wants to start bringing people back to the office in September 2021. Our CEO has stated repeatedly that management strongly recommends everybody get their shots before that time, but the company could not legally discriminate or terminate any employee who chooses not to.

Originally Posted by Scota4570

Leftists amaze me. The have no respect for others' freedom. They are ignorant by definition. They are bullies by choice. This flaw in human nature is how tyrants consolidate power, useful idiots.

Freedom includes the right to do whatever you want unless it negatively impacts somebody else. Avoiding vaccination has no impact on those who choose to be vaccinated. The Leftists all are all gleefully vaccinated, right? In a court we would say they have no standing to bring a cases. So, it is none of anyone else's business whether another person chooses not to be vaccinated.

Before somebody says it, the pandemic crisis is over. "Cases" are a nonsense metric. Deaths and hospitalizations are now few. It won't come back in force because the susceptible are already dead or recovered.

If freedom includes ingesting illegal drugs, being a bum, of having an abortion those rights are sacred. Those people tend to be stupid and lazy. Yet their choices are destructive to individuals and society. They are likely voters for the far left candidate so all is forgiven.

On the other hand, a person who rejects vaccination tends to be a person who is independent, free thinking and self supporting. They tend to be conservative. They are likely to vote wrong way so they are open season for persecution.

The main tactic being used to cause chaos in our society is pitting different groups against each other. IT includes political self identification, race, and gender identity. To me none of that is important. America has done great things when we work as a team of Americans, not hyphenated Americans. It no appears they are finding a new way to divide us against each other, vax or no vax.

Well put!

[bootstrap]

It is illegal for an employer to force you to participate in a clinical trial as condition of employment (all 'rona jabs are currently in clinical trials).

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by Scota4570

Leftists amaze me. The have no respect for others' freedom. They are ignorant by definition. They are bullies by choice. This flaw in human nature is how tyrants consolidate power, useful idiots.

Freedom includes the right to do whatever you want unless it negatively impacts somebody else. Avoiding vaccination has no impact on those who choose to be vaccinated. The Leftists all are all gleefully vaccinated, right? In a court we would say they have no standing to bring a cases. So, it is none of anyone else's business whether another person chooses not to be vaccinated.

Before somebody says it, the pandemic crisis is over. "Cases" are a nonsense metric. Deaths and hospitalizations are now few. It won't come back in force because the susceptible are already dead or recovered.

If freedom includes ingesting illegal drugs, being a bum, of having an abortion those rights are sacred. Those people tend to be stupid and lazy. Yet their choices are destructive to individuals and society. They are likely voters for the far left candidate so all is forgiven.

On the other hand, a person who rejects vaccination tends to be a person who is independent, free thinking and self supporting. They tend to be conservative. They are likely to vote wrong way so they are open season for persecution.

The main tactic being used to cause chaos in our society is pitting different groups against each other. IT includes political self identification, race, and gender identity. To me none of that is important. America has done great things when we work as a team of Americans, not hyphenated Americans. It no appears they are finding a new way to divide us against each other, vax or no vax.

Nailed it.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by Scota4570

Leftists amaze me. The have no respect for others' freedom. They are ignorant by definition. They are bullies by choice. This flaw in human nature is how tyrants consolidate power, useful idiots.

Freedom includes the right to do whatever you want unless it negatively impacts somebody else. Avoiding vaccination has no impact on those who choose to be vaccinated. The Leftists all are all gleefully vaccinated, right? In a court we would say they have no standing to bring a cases. So, it is none of anyone else's business whether another person chooses not to be vaccinated.

Before somebody says it, the pandemic crisis is over. "Cases" are a nonsense metric. Deaths and hospitalizations are now few. It won't come back in force because the susceptible are already dead or recovered.

If freedom includes ingesting illegal drugs, being a bum, of having an abortion those rights are sacred. Those people tend to be stupid and lazy. Yet their choices are destructive to individuals and society. They are likely voters for the far left candidate so all is forgiven.

On the other hand, a person who rejects vaccination tends to be a person who is independent, free thinking and self supporting. They tend to be conservative. They are likely to vote wrong way so they are open season for persecution.

The main tactic being used to cause chaos in our society is pitting different groups against each other. IT includes political self identification, race, and gender identity. To me none of that is important. America has done great things when we work as a team of Americans, not hyphenated Americans. It no appears they are finding a new way to divide us against each other, vax or no vax.

Originally Posted by xrMike

Well put!

Originally Posted by ACfixer

Nailed it.

I agree - and count me on the "no vax" side of the divide.

[Bukowski]

Originally Posted by Mikeywee

Call a lawyer that deals with discrimination or medical issues. You could sue them over HIPAA violation.

Companies can make vaccination a condition of employment. In December the EEOC ruled that mandatory vaccination does not violate the ADA. For religious or health exemptions they should try to make “reasonable” accommodations but many will argue that they cannot. At the end of the day, look for a job without the requirement if it is a dealbreaker for you. In the current climate it may be hard to get a governmental agency to take your side.

[Gryff]

Originally Posted by Bukowski

Companies can make vaccination a condition of employment. In December the EEOC ruled that mandatory vaccination does not violate the ADA. For religious or health exemptions they should try to make “reasonable” accommodations but many will argue that they cannot. At the end of the day, look for a job without the requirement if it is a dealbreaker for you. In the current climate it may be hard to get a governmental agency to take your side.

ALL current wuhan flu vaccines are approved for Emergency Use Only, and technically still in clinical trials. It's just that the clinical trial is now the entire world. But the point is that the vaccine is still technically experimental, and no company can force an employee to participate in experimental drug research. A good lawyer will be able to defeat a company mandate. Once they have full FDA approval, that course of action changes significantly.

[Bukowski]

Originally Posted by Gryff

A good lawyer will be able to defeat a company mandate. Once they have full FDA approval, that course of action changes significantly.

Companies can and do make it a condition of employment in my industry, healthcare. If you refuse to take the vaccine, they will try to accommodate you. If they cannot, you are no longer employed. We are still under a National Health Emergency declaration. Look, your employer can require you to wear a pink dress at work. If you refuse, same thing. I was suggesting a course of action based on what I’ve seen actually happen, employee refuses vaccine, employee no longer employed.

Could you litigate down the road? Maybe, but from the difficulty I’ve seen with a neighbor trying to get a lawyer to even take the case, that might be challenging. Do I think it is right? Heck no, however my advice still stands.

[slamfire1]

I am honestly surprised by the number of people I have talked to who are not going to take the vaccine.

I took my first shot at the beginning of the month, and will take the second at the end. I remember catching the Taiwan flu in the late 1980's and it was like being run over by a long train. People did die of it, I pulled through. Now, lots of older people are dying of COVID, but that does not make any impression on the old geezers I know who won't take the vaccine.

Last Saturday, a friend of mine told me he a funereal to attend at noon. One of the Knights of Columbus members died from complications of COVID. The deceased was in his early 70's, thought COVID was a joke, frequently went to restaurants, and populated areas and came down with COVID. He was discharged from the hospital, but COVID had scarred his lungs, his oxygen intake was not good. The man died in his sleep due to lack of oxygen. Blood oxygen levels need to be above 94%, and COVID has damaged the lungs of a lot of people. I don't want that. Whatever risks of taking the shot are small in comparison to not taking the shot. That was my decision.

So, you want to die now, or later?

I like this from Hemingway:

If people bring so much courage to this world the world has to kill them to break them, so of course it kills them. The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.

Ernst Hemingway in Farewell to Arms


all the denial in the universe won't get you off that slab

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by Bukowski

Companies can and do make it a condition of employment in my industry, healthcare. If you refuse to take the vaccine, they will try to accommodate you. If they cannot, you are no longer employed. We are still under a National Health Emergency declaration. Look, your employer can require you to wear a pink dress at work. If you refuse, same thing. I was suggesting a course of action based on what I’ve seen actually happen, employee refuses vaccine, employee no longer employed.

Could you litigate down the road? Maybe, but from the difficulty I’ve seen with a neighbor trying to get a lawyer to even take the case, that might be challenging. Do I think it is right? Heck no, however my advice still stands.

An employer would be stupid to risk losing a large percentage of its employees over something as stupid as requiring a needless vax.

Not everyone is completely stupid in this debacle.

[Gryff]

Originally Posted by slamfire1

I am honestly surprised by the number of people I have talked to who are not going to take the vaccine.

Three chances in a thousand that you'll die? And experimental vaccines that potentially re-program your DNA?

Yeah, I'll pass.

[Bukowski]

Originally Posted by LBDamned

An employer would be stupid to risk losing a large percentage of its employees over something as stupid as requiring a needless vax.

Not everyone is completely stupid in this debacle.

Totally agree which is why I would look for another job if required, and I took the vaccine voluntarily

Just sharing the research my organization did looking into it in order to answer the OP. The short answer is, yes, the company can require it as a condition of employment if they wish. They may accommodate you or they might not. You could potentially fight it, but you go in with the deck stacked against you. At the end of the day, you would be better off finding a company without the requirement if it matters to you whatever the reason.

[Garand Hunter]

So I am a stoopid old geezer ( 77 ) if I refuse to take the vac eh ? If it pleases you to get it, go for it, take the shots. Me myself and I are in total agreement, NO VACCINE, as I remember the army first shirt saying line up and get your flu shots in 1966 in Pirmasens West Germany. Two days later I had the flu, never ever again. What ever floats your risk it boat.

Psalm 1

[Grouchy Bear]

Any update, OP?

I can speak from a little experience. I accepted termination (sorry, “an unpaid leave accommodation”) for refusing mandatory weekly testing. The institution has since required cooties19 vaccination for all employees.

It’s been painful- I loved my work and still consider it part of my identity. I also had free housing in the Bay Area through my employer that I chose to sacrifice.

Anyway, I learned a lot going through the process. It’s arduous and often demoralizing.

If you try to use Title 7 as a shield, your employee may choose to grant you an “accommodation,” unless your requested accommodation presents “undue hardship” for the employer.

This is what I would have done differently after going through the process and “losing”-

Go at this hard. Consider having a written affidavit notarized detailing any instances of harassment, threat, or coercion. Threatening to terminate your employment or punish you for not accepting their terms might count.

Give your employee a written and notarized declination of unwanted medical surveillance and unwanted medical procedures and products- like the vaccine.

I know people that this has worked for. As inverted as our system is, we can still use the law to protect us. I know people whose employers took one look at a notarized affidavit and/or statement of declination, and have since stopped bothering the employee. Many employers’ legal council will take a look at something like that and advise the employer to leave the employee alone.

In my case, I also had a medical choice advocacy group reach out to me. I regret not working with them and accepting their help at the time.

In addition to what I’ve stated above, you might consider connecting with such a group.

There’s a lot more you can do, and people all over the nation have effectively fought this battle.

I really would NOT recommend lying or forging vaccine records. Stay in honor.

Stay strong. You’re not alone.

As I mentioned above, I’ve lost a lot making the choices I did, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

I’ve come out the other side of this morally and spiritually intact.

Please reach out to me if you want to talk about this further. As I said, there’s a lot you can do that I haven’t discussed here.

Godspeed.

[Grouchy Bear]

One other thing, OP, and anyone else willing to fight this battle-

If you do give your employee written declination, be clear that you’re willing to take legal action and hold them legally accountable.

As I said, I know people who have fought this and won, and know of a couple attorneys that have done nothing else but helped in these situation for the past year.

[slamfire1]

Originally Posted by Gryff

Three chances in a thousand that you'll die? And experimental vaccines that potentially re-program your DNA?

Yeah, I'll pass.

I don't know if your statistics are valid. Given the number of people who are over weight, eat fatty foods, drink gallons of sugary drinks per week, smoke, imbibe alcohol, toke pot, and yet they are more worried about the 10 year consequences of taking a COVID shot than about the addictions that are destroying their bodies.

But, this is real. If you are afraid of radio waves rewiring your brain, this is a going thing.



There are other products this site sells that will block those peaky Alien transmissions that are beamed into human heads.

Kill the Humans!

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by Grouchy Bear

Any update, OP?

I can speak from a little experience. I accepted termination (sorry, “an unpaid leave accommodation”) for refusing mandatory weekly testing. The institution has since required cooties19 vaccination for all employees.

It’s been painful- I loved my work and still consider it part of my identity. I also had free housing in the Bay Area through my employer that I chose to sacrifice.

Anyway, I learned a lot going through the process. It’s arduous and often demoralizing.

If you try to use Title 7 as a shield, your employee may choose to grant you an “accommodation,” unless your requested accommodation presents “undue hardship” for the employer.

This is what I would have done differently after going through the process and “losing”-

Go at this hard. Consider having a written affidavit notarized detailing any instances of harassment, threat, or coercion. Threatening to terminate your employment or punish you for not accepting their terms might count.

Give your employee a written and notarized declination of unwanted medical surveillance and unwanted medical procedures and products- like the vaccine.

I know people that this has worked for. As inverted as our system is, we can still use the law to protect us. I know people whose employers took one look at a notarized affidavit and/or statement of declination, and have since stopped bothering the employee. Many employers’ legal council will take a look at something like that and advise the employer to leave the employee alone.

In my case, I also had a medical choice advocacy group reach out to me. I regret not working with them and accepting their help at the time.

In addition to what I’ve stated above, you might consider connecting with such a group.

There’s a lot more you can do, and people all over the nation have effectively fought this battle.

I really would NOT recommend lying or forging vaccine records. Stay in honor.

Stay strong. You’re not alone.

As I mentioned above, I’ve lost a lot making the choices I did, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

I’ve come out the other side of this morally and spiritually intact.

Please reach out to me if you want to talk about this further. As I said, there’s a lot you can do that I haven’t discussed here.

Godspeed.

excellent post. Thank you for taking the time.

I appreciate and respect your view of the morally and spiritually uncompromising approach. Be well

ETA: I've archived this post for future reference if needed - thank you again.

[Dan_Eastvale]

If these OCD companies didn't have employees that agree with these irrational policies they would cease doing it.

Same thing with states' and cities' sheeple supporting the mask.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale

If these OCD companies didn't have employees that agree with these irrational policies they would cease doing it.

Same thing with states' and cities' sheeple supporting the mask.

yep.

Cooperation with irrational ideas - is what gets us where we are.

[Jongage]

https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fcb...ot-card-2b.pdf

There in NO standard. I have personally filled out about 400 of the cards, with other people filling out the first dose information.
There is NO verification possible for the information because medical records are private, and the vax is on emergency clearance.

[DRM6000]

Well, the policy came out today. It reads like they consulted legal. My manager confirmed that upper management did.

It states that employees "should" get the shot and it has a deadline.
It also states the employer has the right to terminate any employee that does not get vaccinated.

[Mikeywee]

Originally Posted by DRM6000

Well, the policy came out today. It reads like they consulted legal. My manager confirmed that upper management did.

It states that employees "should" get the shot and it has a deadline.
It also states the employer has the right to terminate any employee that does not get vaccinated.

So like I said before it’s a huge game of chicken and they expect you to back down. Get a lawyer you will win just remember cases take anywhere from 2 to 3 years

All reality if you do your job well that means you’re cream of the crop and you have no problem getting another job.

Just remember have big balls and be a man don’t find an excuse for you to back down
A job as easily replaceable your body in your life isn’t and like I said you will win the lawsuit it’s just free money just got to have patience

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Originally Posted by slamfire1

I don't know if your statistics are valid. Given the number of people who are over weight, eat fatty foods, drink gallons of sugary drinks per week, smoke, imbibe alcohol, toke pot, and yet they are more worried about the 10 year consequences of taking a COVID shot than about the addictions that are destroying their bodies.

But, this is real. If you are afraid of radio waves rewiring your brain, this is a going thing.

Yet another example of the "logic" of the mandatory vaccination people: ignore all the instances of people who think COVID is over-hyped and are still alive, yet only city the example of the one who died; ironically (but without being aware of it), state all the unhealthy things people are allowed to do in a free society. And finally, take the high road of using arrogant, condescending cartoons to insult them.

Sounds to me exactly like the way liberals try to ban guns.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Originally Posted by DRM6000

Well, the policy came out today. It reads like they consulted legal. My manager confirmed that upper management did.

It states that employees "should" get the shot and it has a deadline.
It also states the employer has the right to terminate any employee that does not get vaccinated.

This is an awful decision to make given that you have worked for the company for 20 years, I believe you said. I wish there was more precedent about what to do here. Do you mind revealing what the deadline is, at least a rough idea of how long you have to decide?

[choprzrul]

If an employer requires participation in a clinical trial as a condition of employment, and you subsequently experienced negative effects.....would you not fall under workers compensation rules?

.

[SPUTTER]

That statement from the company sounds like coercion. So they are saying they have the right to fire you for refusing an unapproved vaccine? What kind of legal advice are they getting?
I know I wouldn't quit.

[Citadelgrad87]

Originally Posted by SPUTTER

That statement from the company sounds like coercion. So they are saying they have the right to fire you for refusing an unapproved vaccine? What kind of legal advice are they getting?
I know I wouldn't quit.

Solid advice. California is an “at will” state. What kind of legal advice are you getting?

[SPUTTER]

Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87

Solid advice. California is an “at will” state. What kind of legal advice are you getting?

Correct, California is an at will state but there are some cases/reasons you cannot legally terminate an employee's employment.

[Scota4570]

Originally Posted by Jongage

https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fcb...ot-card-2b.pdf

There in NO standard. I have personally filled out about 400 of the cards, with other people filling out the first dose information.
There is NO verification possible for the information because medical records are private, and the vax is on emergency clearance.

What is the exact size of the card and the thickness of the paper stock in thousands of an inch. Plain white I assume?

[Citadelgrad87]

Originally Posted by SPUTTER

Correct, California is an at will state but there are some cases/reasons you cannot legally terminate an employee's employment.

I know. Discrimination. You can be fired for no reason, or any reason that isnt illegal.

Your turn.

[Mikeywee]

Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87

I know. Discrimination. You can be fired for no reason, or any reason that isnt illegal.

Your turn.

I have personally witnessed Alyssa doesn’t good friends of mine have been fired for real non-real reasons and I have sued and I’ve won their cases suffer the most part yes California’s Atwell will cover the businesses but if you do get a lawyer and you have a good lawyer you can prove why they fired you because there’s usually a trail of some sort.

I don’t base my information upon guessing or anything like that like you guys assume I do I based on personal real-world knowledge. But I’ve learned as most laws don’t really actually matter specially how good of a lawyer you could get

And no offense to you Sydell but in my personal opinion if you were really that good of a lawyer your name would be all over billboards. For this you need cream of the crop like Johnny Cochran type lawyers I have a feeling you’re not cream of the crop

Please don’t take that personally because I’m just telling the truth and yes I’m allowed to have my personal opinions

[LBDamned]

^^^ that was definitely a voice to text post

[SPUTTER]

Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87

I know. Discrimination. You can be fired for no reason, or any reason that isnt illegal.

Your turn.

Bingo!

Your turn.

[9mmContagion]

Over my dead body! Fake it till you make it! I already know my direct super-intendant will refuse so I have backing. We’ve already had conversations about the blank covid cards floating around

[Citadelgrad87]

Originally Posted by Mikeywee

I have personally witnessed Alyssa doesn’t good friends of mine have been fired for real non-real reasons and I have sued and I’ve won their cases suffer the most part yes California’s Atwell will cover the businesses but if you do get a lawyer and you have a good lawyer you can prove why they fired you because there’s usually a trail of some sort.

I don’t base my information upon guessing or anything like that like you guys assume I do I based on personal real-world knowledge. But I’ve learned as most laws don’t really actually matter specially how good of a lawyer you could get

And no offense to you Sydell but in my personal opinion if you were really that good of a lawyer your name would be all over billboards. For this you need cream of the crop like Johnny Cochran type lawyers I have a feeling you’re not cream of the crop

Please don’t take that personally because I’m just telling the truth and yes I’m allowed to have my personal opinions

Feel all you want, that appears to be how you do things. Defense lawyers don’t put up billboards, we dont need to. In fact, i’ve never seen a civil defense firm use a billboard. And if you think advertising is the mark of a good lawyer, well, thats your benchmark, but no lawyer, none, measures success or skill by advertising budget. The plaintiff lawyers i know, and i think we can agree that number is greater than all the attorneys you know, dont advertise, either.

I have litigated employment lawsuits for about 25 years, so you go ahead and tell yourself i am guessing, while you know a handful of people who got fired. Tell yourself i am guessing.

Your statement about Cochran tells me what i need to know.

[Citadelgrad87]

Originally Posted by SPUTTER

Bingo!

Your turn.

Firing for Refusal to vaccinate is not discrimination.

Yahtzee.

Your turn.