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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-02-2022, 3:40 PM
THETIM THETIM is offline
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Default Compensators and Breaks

Looking for some CA compliant advice. So silencers of any kind are out I get that, but I also don’t want to be the guy at the range blowing the hat off the guy in the next stall with my muzzle break.

Any recommendations for compensators that don’t fall into the CA forbidden zone that do a decent job of dampening sound and concussion?

I’ve heard a lot of great things about SJC Titans when it comes to recoil control but how much hot wind will it blow at the person next to me?

Open to anything that y’all have good experience with. Currently I’m just scouting YouTube videos but so many just say “yeah feels good” but don’t have any real data to measure blowback and how much the flash will blind you.

Thanks in advance for your personal experience.
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Old 07-02-2022, 3:52 PM
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Why are you concerned with the people next to you? Call me a Dick but Ranges are loud. Unless you’re intentionally using it to bother someone, there’s nothing wrong with choosing a brake or compensator that suits your needs.

A good simple brake is the YHM phantom. I’ve enjoyed it a bunch. I also have a strike industries King Comp. Both have worked great on my rifles.
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Old 07-02-2022, 3:56 PM
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I put VG6 Gamma muzzle brakes on almost all of my rifles. They’re decently priced and seem to work pretty good.

If you’re worried about the person next to you at the range, you could throw a CAGE device on them to diffuse the concussion a little.

https://www.vg6precision.com/vg6-cage-device
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2022, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19K View Post
Why are you concerned with the people next to you? Call me a Dick but Ranges are loud. Unless you’re intentionally using it to bother someone, there’s nothing wrong with choosing a brake or compensator that suits your needs.

A good simple brake is the YHM phantom. I’ve enjoyed it a bunch. I also have a strike industries King Comp. Both have worked great on my rifles.
Hey Dick, more than noise comes out the sides of a compensator. It's folks like you that our community can do without.
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Old 07-02-2022, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THETIM View Post
Looking for some CA compliant advice. So silencers of any kind are out I get that, but I also don’t want to be the guy at the range blowing the hat off the guy in the next stall with my muzzle break.

Any recommendations for compensators that don’t fall into the CA forbidden zone that do a decent job of dampening sound and concussion?

I’ve heard a lot of great things about SJC Titans when it comes to recoil control but how much hot wind will it blow at the person next to me?

Open to anything that y’all have good experience with. Currently I’m just scouting YouTube videos but so many just say “yeah feels good” but don’t have any real data to measure blowback and how much the flash will blind you.

Thanks in advance for your personal experience.
Search for a "linear compensater". It directs muzzle blast forward and is less annoying to your neighbors.

I've used Lavang for years when there few choices available. Now there's a but load of the type out in the WWW. Keeps you compliant in Kali.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2022, 5:10 PM
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I just went with a simple thread protector. So far, I've seen no need for anything else. I've been next to one of those guys who have no respect for others. It's not pleasant.
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Old 07-02-2022, 5:28 PM
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Outdoor ranges are loud, and most people understand that, so I'm not sure you need to worry too much about your neighbors. If it is an indoor range, then we all thank you.

Is this for a featureless or fixed mag rifle? If it is fixed mag, you could just use an A2 flash hider or a linear comp, or some other blast forwarding device.

If it is for a featureless rifle, then here is an article we wrote about muzzle devices in CA. Avoiding the definition of a flash hider isn't as straightforward as we would like, so it is good to be educated, then make an informed decision. We want this to be a helpful and accurate resource, so if anyone sees something wrong or something we should change, please email or PM us.

https://sparrowdynamics.medium.com/f...l-94901d038ddb
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Old 07-02-2022, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
Hey Dick, more than noise comes out the sides of a compensator. It's folks like you that our community can do without.
Thanks for trying to limit my rights Newsome. In case you haven’t noticed, rifles are loud. You could always come up to me and whine about how me shooting a rifle bothers you.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2022, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
Outdoor ranges are loud, and most people understand that, so I'm not sure you need to worry too much about your neighbors. If it is an indoor range, then we all thank you.

Is this for a featureless or fixed mag rifle? If it is fixed mag, you could just use an A2 flash hider or a linear comp, or some other blast forwarding device.

If it is for a featureless rifle, then here is an article we wrote about muzzle devices in CA. Avoiding the definition of a flash hider isn't as straightforward as we would like, so it is good to be educated, then make an informed decision. We want this to be a helpful and accurate resource, so if anyone sees something wrong or something we should change, please email or PM us.

https://sparrowdynamics.medium.com/f...l-94901d038ddb
Good write up. Bookmark worthy.

I find the definitions of the M16/4 us army inc. TM refers to the muzzle fob as a compensater. The gun community at large still calls it a flash hider. I did it too. We are not helping ourselves.

You're doing good work. Carry on.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2022, 6:48 PM
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Thanks for the info. I just built a new featureless kac sr15 upper with an LMT Mars L lower, but when I was getting the doj check today the guy at the shop pointed out my new upper came with a flash suppressor and I’d better swap it out before I commit a felony lol. I will read your article now thanks!
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2022, 8:13 PM
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This has been a HOT topic for some time OP. There are some good muzzle breaks on the market. Just do some research. Use your favorite search engine as long as it isn't Google (LOL). I personally would avoid any muzzle devices that have the "F" word anywhere in the manufacturer's description. Unless you are running full auto you most likely won't notice a difference anyway. B.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2022, 6:41 AM
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Default Blast Can?

What about something designed to send the blast downrange, but not reduce the sound or flash? Like this: Blast Can

Can we be friendly to our range buddies without running afoul of CA statutes? Or maybe no one can really know until some poor sod becomes a test case or the statute is overturned by the courts...
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2022, 6:49 AM
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I have a side baffle brake on my 30 Nosler bolt action, it reduces recoil significantly. It also seems to direct a lot of “extra” noise back towards the shooter. I would never shoot it at a range with someone next to me.

Witt Machine does make a “sound mitigating device” that is supposedly legal


https://youtu.be/CHlTqe5Yk2U

Last edited by middleofnowhere; 07-03-2022 at 6:55 AM..
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  #14  
Old 07-03-2022, 7:17 AM
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With the SJC Titan, the people next to you will hate you. But you will smile and that's what's important in life.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2022, 4:53 PM
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OP go look into blast forwarding devices like the Kak can or Strike Industries Oppressor... Those are cheap options but Gucci brands have Gucci offerings too
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Old 07-03-2022, 5:06 PM
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The AWB is on the verge of being overturned. I wouldn't spend money on a brake now.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2022, 8:16 AM
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^^^ Well, brakes aren't a legal necessity of course. A person should have a valid reason for using one. The "I can't have a flash suppressor, therefore I must use a muzzle brake" thinking is pretty flawed.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2022, 9:01 AM
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I like linear comps.
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2022, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THETIM View Post
Open to anything that y’all have good experience with. Currently I’m just scouting YouTube videos but so many just say “yeah feels good” but don’t have any real data to measure blowback and how much the flash will blind you.
The specific type of rifle hasn't been mentioned yet, but since you're worried about legal stuff, I assume it's some kind of AR? A 5.56 will be most common? If so, maybe just don't use a brake at all? Recoil is minimal. What's a brake going to do for you? I'm not sure what you mean by "blowback" exactly. Sound? Yeah, it's louder for the shooter too if a brake is on the muzzle. A bare muzzle (thread protector only) will be noticeably easier on everyone's ears. I think "linear compensators" are kind of a gimmick. Look cool though.

And unless you plan to shoot at night for some reason, you'll never notice any kind of flash at all, let alone be "blinded" by a flash. You'll just notice a little smoke. Maybe kicked-up dust if you're shooting prone.
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Old 07-04-2022, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THETIM View Post
Looking for some CA compliant advice. So silencers of any kind are out I get that, but I also don’t want to be the guy at the range blowing the hat off the guy in the next stall with my muzzle break.

Any recommendations for compensators that don’t fall into the CA forbidden zone that do a decent job of dampening sound and concussion?

I’ve heard a lot of great things about SJC Titans when it comes to recoil control but how much hot wind will it blow at the person next to me?

Open to anything that y’all have good experience with. Currently I’m just scouting YouTube videos but so many just say “yeah feels good” but don’t have any real data to measure blowback and how much the flash will blind you.

Thanks in advance for your personal experience.
Brake. The word you are looking for is 'brake'. Muzzle brake.

Not 'Muzzle break'. Please don't give the antis more ammo to portray gun owners as ignorant inbred rednecks.
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Old 07-04-2022, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
The specific type of rifle hasn't been mentioned yet, but since you're worried about legal stuff, I assume it's some kind of AR? A 5.56 will be most common? If so, maybe just don't use a brake at all? Recoil is minimal. What's a brake going to do for you? I'm not sure what you mean by "blowback" exactly. Sound? Yeah, it's louder for the shooter too if a brake is on the muzzle. A bare muzzle (thread protector only) will be noticeably easier on everyone's ears. I think "linear compensators" are kind of a gimmick. Look cool though.

And unless you plan to shoot at night for some reason, you'll never notice any kind of flash at all, let alone be "blinded" by a flash. You'll just notice a little smoke. Maybe kicked-up dust if you're shooting prone.
Not a gimmick if you hunt with one one on the rifle. AR clones to bolt guns. Longer barrels benefit most.

It's noticeable to the shooter and peanut gallery/observers IME. No substitute for proper ear pro.
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Old 07-04-2022, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Angrysnarf View Post
I like linear comps.
Is linear comps legal for featureless? since it redirects the blast and flash forward of the shooter it literally violates that part of the law that says a flash hider is any device that reduces or redirects the flash away from the shooter regardless of the company marketing materials.

Or did I interpret that wrong?
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Old 07-04-2022, 2:53 PM
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Not a gimmick if you hunt with one one on the rifle. AR clones to bolt guns. Longer barrels benefit most.

It's noticeable to the shooter and peanut gallery/observers IME. No substitute for proper ear pro.
I've read that it's measurable, technically. But not by all that much. Also, I think if LCs work, they don't work the most people think they work. They don't "redirect the blast forward", which is where the blast was heading anyway. Technically that's not even re-direction, BTW. That explanation always sounded silly to me. Best explanation I've read is that...

Quote:
You’re letting down the muzzle blast into an expansion chamber, and giving it significantly greater cross-sectional area when it finally does reach atmosphere. Decibels are a measure of sonic pressure. Pressure is a force per area. More area means less pressure, less pressure means less decibels...
...borrowed from another forum.

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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
Is linear comps legal for featureless? since it redirects the blast and flash forward of the shooter it literally violates that part of the law that says a flash hider is any device that reduces or redirects the flash away from the shooter regardless of the company marketing materials.
Someone already touched on this above. And the first time I first saw one of these LCs I thought to myself, now that's gotta shroud SOME of the flash from the shooter's view. It's too close to one of those old-timey flash hiders (cone shaped) like they used to stick on Maxim guns, German MGs, etc.
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Old 07-04-2022, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
Hey Dick, more than noise comes out the sides of a compensator. It's folks like you that our community can do without.
Which community is that? I shoot 3gun at least once a month and I’m at the local range at least once a week.

I don’t recall ever seeing an AR without a brake, certainly not on anyones that I shoot with.

The long range guys all have brakes as well.
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Old 07-04-2022, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
Why are you concerned with the people next to you? Call me a Dick but Ranges are loud. Unless you’re intentionally using it to bother someone, there’s nothing wrong with choosing a brake or compensator that suits your needs.

A good simple brake is the YHM phantom. I’ve enjoyed it a bunch. I also have a strike industries King Comp. Both have worked great on my rifles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
Hey Dick, more than noise comes out the sides of a compensator. It's folks like you that our community can do without.


Dude, I almost spit out the coffee.





.
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Old 07-04-2022, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
I've read that it's measurable, technically. But not by all that much. Also, I think if LCs work, they don't work the most people think they work. They don't "redirect the blast forward", which is where the blast was heading anyway. Technically that's not even re-direction, BTW. That explanation always sounded silly to me. Best explanation I've read is that...



...borrowed from another forum.


Someone already touched on this above. And the first time I first saw one of these LCs I thought to myself, now that's gotta shroud SOME of the flash from the shooter's view. It's too close to one of those old-timey flash hiders (cone shaped) like they used to stick on Maxim guns, German MGs, etc.
If you get a chance to actually try one you could understand a little more besides reading someone else's opinion/testing. My personal t&e required me to invest $25 and screw it on the end of my coyote rifle. AR clone based w/20" barrel. I was skeptical until I shot with it. I'm not saying all LC are the same or effective because there are lots of them out there now that I never tried.

Sounds like the OP wants a friendlier muzzle fob to calm the range monkies. A well designed LC should do that and keep Kali compliant.

Brakes are for recoil, comps are for barrel bounce and LC's are for keeping sound impact forward of the driver. That's my best KISS explanation of those items.
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Old 07-04-2022, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
Is linear comps legal for featureless? since it redirects the blast and flash forward of the shooter it literally violates that part of the law that says a flash hider is any device that reduces or redirects the flash away from the shooter regardless of the company marketing materials.

Or did I interpret that wrong?
Not completely wrong. BUT, more accurately, the definition says "perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision"
NOT, away from the shooter, but from the shooter's field of vision.

With most muzzle devices, there are two "blasts" we are dealing with. A visible blast (that the definition is concerned about), and the concussive blast that you feel. Many linear comps push the concussive blast forward instead of back and to the sides like a brake does... BUT, with many linear comps, there is still a large visible blast that occurs well within the shooter's field of vision.



For reference:
Current definition per the California Code of Regulations, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39 Assault Weapons and Large-Capacity Magazines, Article 2, § 5471, (r) “Flash suppressor” means any device attached to the end of the barrel, that is designed, intended, or functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision. A hybrid device that has either advertised flash suppressing properties or functionally has flash suppressing properties would be deemed a flash suppressor. A device labeled or identified by its manufacturer as a flash hider would be deemed a flash suppressor.

The definition is still vague in many parts. Like, what exactly is a perceptible difference, and to who's perception? The shooter's perception? How wide and tall is the shooter's field of vision? Do they mean just the target area (past the scope or sights) that the shooter is focused on, or do they include a bigger area of normal eyesight? These are just rhetorical questions. The DOJ didn't give any guidance on any of this in the definition or in the FSR (final statement of reasons), so we only can guess and make up answers.
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Old 07-04-2022, 6:30 PM
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I run a surefire brake that can accept the warden. Best of both worlds. I run the brake bare at the range and slap on the warden when hunting.
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Old 07-04-2022, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
Thanks for trying to limit my rights Newsome. In case you haven’t noticed, rifles are loud. You could always come up to me and whine about how me shooting a rifle bothers you.
He's not trying to change your behavior by force of law, so calling him a Newsom seems a bit harsh. He's echoing the sentiment that you originally mentioned- that someone who is inconsiderate of others in a group setting is a Dick.
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Old 07-04-2022, 6:46 PM
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Be neighborly - just put a thread protector on it and man up to the recoil.
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Old 07-04-2022, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
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He's not trying to change your behavior by force of law, so calling him a Newsom seems a bit harsh. He's echoing the sentiment that you originally mentioned- that someone who is inconsiderate of others in a group setting is a Dick.
Shooting a rifle at a range is now “inconsiderate”? Oh man, you guys needs some thicker skin and better ear pro.
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Old 07-04-2022, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Search for a "linear compensater". It directs muzzle blast forward and is less annoying to your neighbors.
True story. Kaw Valley work, like many others.
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Old 07-04-2022, 7:42 PM
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This discussion has me wondering what i should mount on my ar pistol to redirect the monster bark.
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Old 07-04-2022, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by THETIM View Post
Looking for some CA compliant advice. So silencers of any kind are out I get that, but I also don’t want to be the guy at the range blowing the hat off the guy in the next stall with my muzzle break.

Any recommendations for compensators that don’t fall into the CA forbidden zone that do a decent job of dampening sound and concussion?


I’ve heard a lot of great things about SJC Titans when it comes to recoil control but how much hot wind will it blow at the person next to me?

Open to anything that y’all have good experience with. Currently I’m just scouting YouTube videos but so many just say “yeah feels good” but don’t have any real data to measure blowback and how much the flash will blind you.

Thanks in advance for your personal experience.
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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
Why are you concerned with the people next to you? Call me a Dick but Ranges are loud. Unless you’re intentionally using it to bother someone, there’s nothing wrong with choosing a brake or compensator that suits your needs.

A good simple brake is the YHM phantom. I’ve enjoyed it a bunch. I also have a strike industries King Comp. Both have worked great on my rifles.
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Originally Posted by BillyMays View Post
He's not trying to change your behavior by force of law, so calling him a Newsom seems a bit harsh. He's echoing the sentiment that you originally mentioned- that someone who is inconsiderate of others in a group setting is a Dick.
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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
Shooting a rifle at a range is now “inconsiderate”? Oh man, you guys needs some thicker skin and better ear pro.
The OP asked a question and stated the reason for it. Then you asked why the OP wanted to do what he wanted to do. Clearly, he stated why, you just didn't like it.

No one said that shooting a rifle at a range was inconsiderate.




.
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Old 07-04-2022, 10:56 PM
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This is a compensator:



This is a break:

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Old 07-05-2022, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
If you get a chance to actually try one you could understand a little more besides reading someone else's opinion/testing. My personal t&e required me to invest $25 and screw it on the end of my coyote rifle. AR clone based w/20" barrel. I was skeptical until I shot with it. I'm not saying all LC are the same or effective because there are lots of them out there now that I never tried.

Sounds like the OP wants a friendlier muzzle fob to calm the range monkies. A well designed LC should do that and keep Kali compliant.
Fair enough. Maybe some day I'll check one out. I only shoot when I'm out in the desert though, so there are no "neighbors" to concern myself with. And when out with friends we're usually spaced 20' apart or more.

I still think that guy's explanation makes the most sense from a physics point of view.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
Not completely wrong. BUT, more accurately, the definition says "perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision"
NOT, away from the shooter, but from the shooter's field of vision.
I understand that "field of vision" is a key aspect. As I was saying before, I don't know how a LC doesn't block some of the flash from the shooter's eyes. Playing devil's advocate, how is a LC different from one of these, from a 'flash' point of view (literally and figuratively).

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  #37  
Old 07-05-2022, 7:17 AM
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All linear here except the AR-47. That one has a 3 sided brake. A friend shot it next to me and the side air blast blew my hat off my head, I moved.

I use Levang, BTR and KAW. All work well.
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2022, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_tunaman View Post
This is a compensator:



This is a break:

Is it just me or is there an inordinate percentage of thick women in that shot?
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2022, 8:00 AM
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The Hypertap gets my vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInOroValley View Post
Is it just me or is there an inordinate percentage of thick women in that shot?
Let’s face it, we’re an obese nation.

But, a 944 is not a compensator, a 911 is.
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Old 07-05-2022, 8:28 AM
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My rifles have muzzle brakes, makes magnums a pleasure to shoot and as far as I can tell, the game doesn't hear the shot, they just drop........
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