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  #81  
Old 08-16-2019, 6:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
OK, so you missed it. Your comment is irrelevant to my post.

Bottom line is, you don’t need a RealID to buy ammo in Ca. The statute, the regs and the DOJ say that.

All the rest is petty carping about how other people run their lives. Who cares?

Especially since (I’ll type slowly) he doesn’t need a RealID to buy ammo.

Best.
You missed the entire reason for his rant.
He got a non Real ID. He doesn't have a other docs needed. He planned poorly!
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  #82  
Old 08-16-2019, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
OK, so you missed it. Your comment is irrelevant to my post.

Bottom line is, you don’t need a RealID to buy ammo in Ca. The statute, the regs and the DOJ say that.

All the rest is petty carping about how other people run their lives. Who cares?

Especially since (I’ll type slowly) he doesn’t need a RealID to buy ammo.

Best.
Yes, but some sellers won't bother selling ammo if you don't have a real ID. Big 5 or Walmart is not obligated by law to rifle through multiple pages of documents and logging on the computer keeping other customers waiting just so someone can buy a box of cheap .22 rounds for their kid.
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  #83  
Old 08-16-2019, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
Yes, but some sellers won't bother selling ammo if you don't have a real ID. Big 5 or Walmart is not obligated by law to rifle through multiple pages of documents and logging on the computer keeping other customers waiting just so someone can buy a box of cheap .22 rounds for their kid.
Big 5 accepts non- Real ID.
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  #84  
Old 08-16-2019, 8:34 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
Yes, but some sellers won't bother selling ammo if you don't have a real ID. Big 5 or Walmart is not obligated by law to rifle through multiple pages of documents and logging on the computer keeping other customers waiting just so someone can buy a box of cheap .22 rounds for their kid.
Actually, they appear to be....

11 CCR § 4045.1, specifically demands the submission of these documents from the potential purchaser.

11 CCR § 4302 and § 4303, lay out the process, stating:
Quote:
(c) The ammunition vendor shall collect the ammunition purchaser's or transferee's name, date of birth, current address, gender, hair color, eye color, height, weight, and driver's license or other government identification number in the manner described in Penal Code section 28180, and telephone number, United States citizenship status, federal Alien Registration Number or I-94 (if applicable), place of birth, alias name(s), and race, and enter this information into the DES website.
That doesn’t seem to leave a lot of discretionary space for the vendor.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-16-2019 at 9:35 AM..
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  #85  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
I just get pissy when someone starts to tell me how I need to act as an adult. The social security card is a non issue, so people can mind their own ****ing business on that one.

Having the social, passport, etc doesn't change anything for the fact were 2 weeks out from dove season and I don't have a real ID. I'm not a gun fanatic, other hobbies take up my time. So I don't sit here and go over details of every law thats passing. Even after reading about the background checks at no point did I read anything about the real idea. So you can mozy right along now, you aren't helping.
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Nope. At this point i'm giving up on dove season. Thanks a lot california you ****ing communists.
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
Why do people find the need to be insulting. Turns out I do have my SS card, since no one ever needs it, its easy to forget where its at. Of course none of that changes anything because its 4 hours away locked in my safe in my apartment.

I'll get a real ID when I can. For now I found a local shop that says they will sell to me with a passport. So i'll get my passport shipped to me when my wife goes back to the apartment this weekend and hopefully that will get me taken care of for now.

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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
No you're being insulting. And actually the SS isn't needed as pointed out above. So its just you telling me how you think I should be. Its none of your business where I store my documents.


Seems personal growth is a factor here. Juz sayin'.
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  #86  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
[/B]

Seems personal growth is a factor here. Juz sayin'.
seems you can mind your own business, juz sayin

Honestly, the amount of people who choose to inflict their opinion on where I store my social security card... a card that it turns out serves zero purpose for this debate, is staggering. Lot of big egos on here.

Last edited by JonnyGSX; 08-16-2019 at 10:23 AM..
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  #87  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:19 AM
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Vendors are only required to collect and enter the information if they agree to sell it to you.

Vendors can still choose not to make the sale. Even if that's not legal, there is no practical recourse.
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  #88  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Vendors are only required to collect and enter the information if they agree to sell it to you.

Vendors can still choose not to make the sale. Even if that's not legal, there is no practical recourse.
If it's not legal, they can have their vendor license pulled. I have no doubt DOJ would be giddy at the prospect of cutting out Big 5 or Walmart. Less ammo outlets for everybody.
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  #89  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
seems you can mind your own business, juz sayin

Honestly, the amount of people who choose to inflict their opinion on where I store my social security card... a card that it turns out serves zero purpose for this debate, is staggering. Lot of big egos on here.
You made it everyone's business (should they so choose) junior.

You don't get to define the public's response.
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Last edited by JagerDog; 08-16-2019 at 10:51 AM..
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  #90  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
You made it everyone's business (should they so choose) junior.

You don't get to define the public's response.
I stated that as a reason that I couldn't get a Real ID in time. I wasn't looking for suggestions on where I should store my documents. Anyone who feels the need to tell me how they think I need to live my life frankly has a lack of control in their own life that they feel the need to impose on others.

But hey thats really your issue.
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  #91  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
If it's not legal, they can have their vendor license pulled. I have no doubt DOJ would be giddy at the prospect of cutting out Big 5 or Walmart. Less ammo outlets for everybody.
Just like the've managed to pull the license from FFLs that refuse to do PPTs.
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  #92  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
I stated that as a reason that I couldn't get a Real ID in time. I wasn't looking for suggestions on where I should store my documents. Anyone who feels the need to tell me how they think I need to live my life frankly has a lack of control in their own life that they feel the need to impose on others.

But hey thats really your issue.
Whatever you say junior. You've got the world all figgered out.
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  #93  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
I stated that as a reason that I couldn't get a Real ID in time. I wasn't looking for suggestions on where I should store my documents. Anyone who feels the need to tell me how they think I need to live my life frankly has a lack of control in their own life that they feel the need to impose on others.

But hey thats really your issue.
Dont take it personally, it is the environment here.
You need to be really thick skinned to survive here. Just ignore smart hind quarters.

Just take advice from real guys who actually wants to help and ignore "smart" comments.

I also would keep valuables at my parent's home if i could. The main reason they always at home, meaning - less chance to get stolen and it does not make you less of a man.

Good luck with your hunt.
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  #94  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:47 AM
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In the end with the help of a few informed generous people on here I was able to find a local shop that will accept a passport which I'm getting mailed to me. So mission accomplished. The rest of you grumpy old men and sad boys can continue bickering if you wish.
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  #95  
Old 08-16-2019, 12:34 PM
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It has been enjoyable to say the least, lol
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  #96  
Old 08-16-2019, 12:43 PM
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Should have had your passport overnighted to you before all this turmoil. You choose to get non real id then bich that you were wronged. Should have had your wife buy ammo. This should have been solved quickly. You are right that ss card worthless unless you use it to get real id.
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  #97  
Old 08-16-2019, 2:22 PM
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Oct 1, 2020, and a mil ID will get you on the plane. (But, of course, you can’t use the mil ID to get a RealID.)
FWIW, game warden told me last week the the new regs will not allow active military stationed in CA but without a permanent CA address, to buy ammo, no matter what other documents they may have. He also told me that it is now illegal for LEOs who leave the state to return to CA with their duty ammo, unless they can prove that they possessed it when they left CA. The law is close to unenforceable, but there will inevitably be some dick with a badge and gun who wants to hassle hunters at the border. California is incredibly screwed up.
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  #98  
Old 08-16-2019, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
seems you can mind your own business, juz sayin

Honestly, the amount of people who choose to inflict their opinion on where I store my social security card... a card that it turns out serves zero purpose for this debate, is staggering. Lot of big egos on here.
Good Lord you need to grow the hell up!
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  #99  
Old 08-16-2019, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
Good Lord you need to grow the hell up!
Millennial much? I guess not. For many of them there's no growing up. They still want the participation trophy.
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  #100  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:02 PM
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Good Lord you need to grow the hell up!
Lol
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  #101  
Old 08-17-2019, 1:31 PM
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Go to Yuma AZ to shoot Doves, buy all the LEAD ammo you want at Spragues! Done
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  #102  
Old 08-17-2019, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
First You don't need a real ID to buy ammo, that part of the law got dropped off. Whoever told you that is not up to date.

Go to Walmart. If you have bought a gun in the last 5 years they do a background check on you which costs $1 and is quick and you walk out with your ammo.

If you haven't bought a gun in the last 5 years it then goes back to 16 years if you haven't moved, and your address hasn't changed. if you have moved then you will have to wait for a "complete background check" which will cost you $19 and and take up to a month to come back then you can pick up your ammo.

I was just told that they are coming back in a few days right now.

All this info was just told to me by MY LGS which actually knows what they are doing and can be taken as gospel.

Randy
I don't know what state you are in but it is not California. If you have a Federal Limits Apply in the upper right of your license, you need, additionally, another type of ID. What works for me is a Certified Copy of my Birth Certificate. This is what the law requires.
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  #103  
Old 08-17-2019, 7:27 PM
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Go to Yuma AZ to shoot Doves, buy all the LEAD ammo you want at Spragues! Done
But then you can't (legally) bring your leftover ammo back to CA. Thanks, Gavin!
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  #104  
Old 08-17-2019, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by whutsup40 View Post
this ammo law is for the birds!!!!
your comments is a strong as these people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiVQlakoUig
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  #105  
Old 08-18-2019, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
In the end with the help of a few informed generous people on here I was able to find a local shop that will accept a passport which I'm getting mailed to me. So mission accomplished. The rest of you grumpy old men and sad boys can continue bickering if you wish.
Inquiring minds want to know if you will buy several years worth of hunting ammunition now? Instead of just a box of two for this years Dove Hunting Season...

Did you not know about the State of California Prop 63 effective July 1st, 2019 ammunition restrictions? That was before your Non-Federal ID ammunition denial issues came up, due to you not having the correct information/ or paperwork with you??

Having lived and worked in Mammoth Lakes at the California Dept of Fish and Game 'Hot Creek Fish Hatchery' years ago, I am familiar with the Bishop/ Eastern Sierra area, and I am surprised that you had soooo much trouble in buying ammunition in that area.
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  #106  
Old 08-18-2019, 6:22 PM
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usr1987!! spellcheck.
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  #107  
Old 08-19-2019, 6:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
FWIW, game warden told me last week the the new regs will not allow active military stationed in CA but without a permanent CA address, to buy ammo, no matter what other documents they may have.
The regulations (11 CCR § 4045.1) provide for out-of-state DL for purchase. So, a permanent CA address isn’t required.
Quote:
(a) For all eligibility checks, a copy of the applicant's California driver license or identification card, or out-of-state driver license, if applicable, shall be submitted, as specified in subdivisions (d) through (g).
Military personnel have their own consideration: CA PEN 30370:
Quote:
30370. (a) Commencing July 1, 2019, the department shall electronically approve the purchase or transfer of ammunition through a vendor, as defined in Section 16151, except as otherwise specified.[...]
(b) To determine if the purchaser or transferee is eligible to purchase or possess ammunition pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (a), the department shall cross-reference the ammunition purchaser’s or transferee’s name, date of birth, current address, and driver’s license or other government identification number, as described in Section 28180, with the information maintained in the AFS.
CA PEN 28180 tells us:
Quote:
28180. (a) The purchaser’s name, date of birth, and driver’s license or identification number shall be obtained electronically from the magnetic strip on the purchaser’s driver’s license or identification and shall not be supplied by any other means, except as authorized by the department.
(b) The requirement of subdivision (a) shall not apply in either of the following cases:
(1) The purchaser’s identification consists of a military identification card.
Military personnel can use their Mil ID or their out-of-state DL. If they have a gun in the AFS, they will get approved under the Standard Eligibility Check described in 11 CCR § 4302. If there is no entry in AFS, then CA PEN 30370 continues from above:
Quote:
If the purchaser’s or transferee’s information does not match an AFS entry, the transaction shall be denied. [...]
(c) The department shall develop a procedure in which a person who is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing ammunition may be approved for a single ammunition transaction or purchase.[...]
That would put the military member into the Basic Background Check described in 11 CCR § 4303.

////
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
He also told me that it is now illegal for LEOs who leave the state to return to CA with their duty ammo, unless they can prove that they possessed it when they left CA.
The prohibition on bringing ammo into CA affects only CA residents and ammunition they purchased or obtained outside of CA. It doesn’t affect ammunition taken out and brought back in. Even if a LEO is stopped and questioned, the statute exempts LEOs from its provisions. So, what bars LEOs from taking their duty ammunition out of state and returning with it? CA PEN 30314:
Quote:
30314. (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) An ammunition vendor.
(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer’s duties.
////
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
The law is close to unenforceable, but there will inevitably be some dick with a badge and gun who wants to hassle hunters at the border.
Probably the same guy from whom you’re receiving your information.
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  #108  
Old 08-19-2019, 7:12 AM
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Probably the same guy from whom you’re receiving your information.
That info came directly from the ENFORCEMENT DIVISION of CA DFW in Sacramento.

Quote:
The prohibition on bringing ammo into CA affects only CA residents and ammunition they purchased or obtained outside of CA. It doesn’t affect ammunition taken out and brought back in.
And when coming back into CA with ammo that you possessed before you left CA, how do you prove to someone that you had the ammo when you left CA? Receipts? For every odd box of shells that you have accumulated over the years? Don't know about you, but I still have shells that I bought 20 years ago and the receipts are long gone. DFW suggested taking pics of every box or bag of ammo with a GPS stamp or identifying location on the pic. That's doable, but a big PITA. That means, for me at least, that I have to unpack every carton of stuff to make sure I have pics of each box. Conversely, how does DOJ prove that you didn't have the ammo when you left CA?
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  #109  
Old 08-19-2019, 8:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
That info came directly from the ENFORCEMENT DIVISION of CA DFW in Sacramento.
So what? It’s not supported by fact, law or regulation. (Did you READ THE CITATIONS I posted?)

Capitalizing the agency name doesn’t change that.

The statements you were given by your DFW source were:
1. Active military can’t buy ammo; and,
2. LEOs can’t return with their duty ammo.

Do you now understand that both assertions are false?

Returning with ammo has been discussed to death here. Google, “CalGuns transporting ammo into ca,” or “CalGuns returning to CA with ammo,” and you’ll have some background.

Basically, you are innocent until proven guilty. Remember that? You don’t need to prove that you’re not breaking the law; the agency has to prove you are. To do that, they need probable cause. Unless you’ve got an out-of-state ammo receipt laying around, or a pallet of 5,000 rounds in the truck, there isn’t any probable cause.

Whatever cluster**** info you’re getting from DFW is worthless.
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  #110  
Old 08-19-2019, 10:57 AM
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On the bright side after being denied even with my "Real ID" a couple of weeks ago, I tried again with success. Same salesperson, same time in the morning, same location. We both concluded there was a typo the first time around.
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  #111  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:16 AM
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Did you READ THE CITATIONS I posted?
Yes, I read the citations, and my reading comprehension is probably better than your ability to discern the subtleties of my posts. So I'll lay it out for you:

The DFW is confused by the regs. Even the Enforcement division of the DFW is confused by the regs. Many of the posters here are confused by the regs. Some ammo dealers seem to be confused about the regs, and inconsistent in their behavior related to the regs. The DOJ does not seem to have any idea how these regs are going to be enforced. The law is a complete cluster ****.

Clear now?
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  #112  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
Yes, I read the citations, and my reading comprehension is probably better than your ability to discern the subtleties of my posts. So I'll lay it out for you:

The DFW is confused by the regs. Even the Enforcement division of the DFW is confused by the regs. Many of the posters here are confused by the regs. Some ammo dealers seem to be confused about the regs, and inconsistent in their behavior related to the regs. The DOJ does not seem to have any idea how these regs are going to be enforced. The law is a complete cluster ****.

Clear now?
We’ve known this for sometime now. What’s new, other than your recent awareness?

Best.
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  #113  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:58 PM
Ducky's Dad Ducky's Dad is offline
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My awareness goes back to well before this travesty became law.
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  #114  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:16 AM
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W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I don't know what state you are in but it is not California. If you have a Federal Limits Apply in the upper right of your license, you need, additionally, another type of ID. What works for me is a Certified Copy of my Birth Certificate. This is what the law requires.
MY gawd !!!! I never said anything about a "Federal Limits Apply License." You are about the 15th person who went down this road talking about one of these useless ID's that only people who didn't read the instructions got in the first place. Read the entire thread!

Did you shred your original License? Why not just use that? You don't need a Second Doc if you use that.

You guys got yourself into this issue by not reading the instructions on the DMV Website which clearly state that you must go to the DMV in person with your backup Docs to get your "Real ID!" It is as simple as that and you could still do it! And it would take less time to do than the all the stupid posts on this thread!

It doesn't affect me in any way. If it affects you then deal with it!

Not my Problem!

Have a nice day :>)

Randy
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  #115  
Old 08-20-2019, 4:14 PM
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IF you read the Real ID info (https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/realid), it is for TRAVEL security, zip to do with ammo sales.

Notwithstanding the nice "poster" in post #26, I've used a current/pre-Real ID CA DL twice in the last two WEEKS to pick up/transfer ammo from out-of-state sellers. I had a rifle transfer in the last few years and that was ALL that was needed. The ammo sale restriction says NOTHING about having a "Real ID". If a retailer is "requiring" same, look for another retailer - they have NO right to require a Real ID to purchase. Period!
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  #116  
Old 08-20-2019, 5:41 PM
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You guy's must be bored!!!!!!!!!
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  #117  
Old 08-20-2019, 8:59 PM
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Lol I think people are getting the “federal limits apply” id confused with the old id. The old id works like the real id for buying ammo. Make sure the clerks put in the right info too I’ve been denied a few times from typos.
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  #118  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyGSX View Post
I just went into the local shop to get some trap and dove loads for the upcoming season. I was informed that even though I just got a new ID in May, since it isn't a california Real ID I cannot buy ammunition. I would need to get my social security card mailed from my parents and then apply for a real ID which will take 2-4 weeks to receive. Since the season starts in just over 2 weeks. Is it legal for my wife to buy me ammunition since she has the Real ID?
Sometimes people ask too many questions.
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Old 08-21-2019, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeeze View Post
Sometimes people ask too many questions.
LOL!!!!!
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Old 08-21-2019, 7:36 AM
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There is a lot I'd like to add, but I'll limit my comments to this. We've had years to prepare for the proposed and now implemented ammo laws. We knew well in advance of what was coming. Based on past experiences, we should have expected problems with interpretation of the ammo laws by vendors and consumers, confusion by those responsible for implementing the laws and problem with the technology used to this end.

Some of us planned ahead and won't have to buy ammo for hunting or shooting for years to come. It's unfortunate that California has become such an anti hunting, shooting and gun ownership state. I miss the days when I could walk into a gun shop and walk out with a new firearm and ammo in under 20 minutes. But that isn't the California we now live in. I don't like it one bit, but it is what it is.
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