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  #1  
Old 04-06-2019, 8:39 AM
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Default Rebuild kits?

Now that we’ve had 7 days of legal aqusition. Basically legalizing every SCM in the state making possession legal for anyone that did any of the 4 triggering events. Would it be legal to purchase rebuild kits for our legally owned SCM’s at this point?

//
// see also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1524934
// essentially same topic but too different to merge
//
// Librarian
//

Last edited by Librarian; 04-10-2019 at 11:30 AM..
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2019, 8:41 AM
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I asked this as well in another thread. Are vendors hitting you up with this question as well?
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2019, 8:47 AM
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Originally Posted by EvoXguy View Post
I asked this as well in another thread. Are vendors hitting you up with this question as well?
No, i haven't had any vendors reach out to me about this.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2019, 8:56 AM
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I could be wrong, but I dont think it would be legal to buy rebuild kits at this point or even during the Million Mag March this past week.

PC 32310 is what was ruled unconstitutional
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32310.

And PC 32311 which covers conversion kits wasnt ruled on still making it illegal.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32311

Someone please correct me if Im wrong.
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Old 04-06-2019, 8:58 AM
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So we can own them...just not replace a spring if it gets worn out?
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2019, 9:02 AM
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...

Last edited by HighCapAssaultOpinionator; 04-07-2019 at 7:54 PM..
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  #7  
Old 04-06-2019, 9:39 AM
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Looks like all those rebuild kits we sent back in 2011,2012,2013 came to good use
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Old 04-06-2019, 9:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cope's Dist. View Post
Looks like all those rebuild kits we sent back in 2011,2012,2013 came to good use
They were just waiting for their moment of glory!
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  #9  
Old 04-06-2019, 9:53 AM
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Thanks Copes! You were my go to in those years!!!
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  #10  
Old 04-06-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGDOG805 View Post
I could be wrong, but I dont think it would be legal to buy rebuild kits at this point or even during the Million Mag March this past week.

PC 32310 is what was ruled unconstitutional
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32310.

And PC 32311 which covers conversion kits wasnt ruled on still making it illegal.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32311

Someone please correct me if Im wrong.
Exactly right; it's probably (because we have no court cases to confirm) illegal to import rebuild kits since they seem to be 'large capacity magazine conversion kits'.

Assembling such kits would be 'manufacture'. During the 1-week window, assembling kits was legal.
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  #11  
Old 04-06-2019, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
So we can own them...just not replace a spring if it gets worn out?
I think most people who read the law come to the conclusion that a spring is 1 part, not a kit. Some people might try to say that a spring is a "device" but I don't think most people agree. It would seem you are probably able to buy the individual part you need to make the repair. What was definitely prohibited was the 'kits' that were basically entire disassembled magazines. They often even had the 30 round magazine body without it being blocked.

It does also specifically mention it being prohibited if it can turn a 10 round magazine into an over 10 round magazine, but if you're buying a spring or a follower or whatever for an already over 10 round magazine that is legally owned, you're not converting anything.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2019, 9:14 AM
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I don't know, but it seems that prosecutions for standard cap mags, even if they were mag kits, are going to be very difficult from now on. Unless they reinstate the whole thing and make every mag over 10 rounds illegal.

Question: Can I buy extra springs and followers legally now?
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyQuickdraw View Post
I think most people who read the law come to the conclusion that a spring is 1 part, not a kit. Some people might try to say that a spring is a "device" but I don't think most people agree. It would seem you are probably able to buy the individual part you need to make the repair. What was definitely prohibited was the 'kits' that were basically entire disassembled magazines. They often even had the 30 round magazine body without it being blocked.

It does also specifically mention it being prohibited if it can turn a 10 round magazine into an over 10 round magazine, but if you're buying a spring or a follower or whatever for an already over 10 round magazine that is legally owned, you're not converting anything.
Not to say you are wrong, but neither is it clear that you are correct. Keep in mind that the courts will apply rules of statutory construction. Google statutory construction if you want to know those rules.

The results I reach suggest that, given the particular circumstances, a single part might be held to be a "large capacity magazine conversion kit". Say the circumstances are that you have a 30 round magazine that was blocked with a rivet so that its capacity was limited to 10 rounds. Between 3/29 and 5 PM of 4/5 you drilled the rivet out. Assume that your magazine still needs a different spring before it will properly function as a 30 rounder. The importation of that single spring converts what was a 10 round magazine into a functional LCM.

The courts may eventually rule differently than I suggest, and if you want to take the risk that they do have at it.

Quote:
32311.
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine, which is governed by Section 32310.

(b) For purposes of this section, a “large capacity magazine conversion kit” is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine.

(Added by Stats. 2013, Ch. 728, Sec. 2. (AB 48) Effective January 1, 2014.)
Try reading the first alternative with the second edited out:

Quote:
For purposes of this section, a “large capacity magazine conversion kit” is a device . . . including, but not limited to, the. . . spring . . . capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine.
Even though you may only be buying a spring and you do not consider just the spring to be a "kit", I would be concerned that when you take possession of it along with your drilled out 10/30 magazine parts you will have "manufactured" a kit. That may not criminalize the vendors sale of the spring, but it sure could put a hurt on the buyer.
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Last edited by Chewy65; 04-07-2019 at 10:12 AM..
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  #14  
Old 04-08-2019, 7:11 AM
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Lees mags sent me an email and said they were selling mag replacement parts. They will NOT send all the parts to build a magazine at one time. So, if you needed floorplates and springs today, and followers next week.
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Old 04-08-2019, 7:14 AM
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Lees mags sent me an email and said they were selling mag replacement parts. They will NOT send all the parts to build a magazine at one time. So, if you needed floorplates and springs today, and followers next week.
This - if you break a spring, buy some replacement springs. If you lose a floor-plate, get a replacement. DON'T try to buy all the parts and assemble a new full capacity magazine from those parts... the time to do that was last week.
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  #16  
Old 04-08-2019, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
This - if you break a spring, buy some replacement springs. If you lose a floor-plate, get a replacement. DON'T try to buy all the parts and assemble a new full capacity magazine from those parts... the time to do that was last week.
Yes. DON'T do that. Because you already did do that last week. Right?

Individual parts were/are not illegal to purchase except for extended baseplates. Which did not change during MMM regardless.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by floogy View Post
Yes. DON'T do that. Because you already did do that last week. Right?

Individual parts were/are not illegal to purchase except for extended baseplates. Which did not change during MMM regardless.
What if a magazine you acquired during the window already had an extended baseplate, and later on it breaks and you buy an extended baseplate to replace it?
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Smedkcuf View Post
What if a magazine you acquired during the window already had an extended baseplate, and later on it breaks and you buy an extended baseplate to replace it?
Out of luck there; while perfectly legal to install the extended baseplate on an existing LCM, not legal to buy (or otherwise acquire) a baseplate as it is probably a 'large capacity magazine conversion kit'.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #19  
Old 04-09-2019, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedkcuf View Post
What if a magazine you acquired during the window already had an extended baseplate, and later on it breaks and you buy an extended baseplate to replace it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Out of luck there; while perfectly legal to install the extended baseplate on an existing LCM, not legal to buy (or otherwise acquire) a baseplate as it is probably a 'large capacity magazine conversion kit'.

Would that not fall under the ability to repair LCM's that one already owns?
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Old 04-10-2019, 8:04 AM
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I know we can buy extra parts to replace broken parts with. That said... One of the old surplus AK mags I bought has a dent in it that stops the follower from moving freely. The spring, floorplate, follower, and bottom spring piece all seem fine. If I were to get a new magazine body and replace the damages one with that, would that be considered making a new LCM? Or would that work as repairing a broken LCM?
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Old 04-10-2019, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
Would that not fall under the ability to repair LCM's that one already owns?
The problem is that an extended floorplate on its own is/was illegal on its own to buy. If it came on an LCM acquired during freedom week it's fine. On its own it is still illegal, even if you have a mag with one installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maulerrr View Post
I know we can buy extra parts to replace broken parts with. That said... One of the old surplus AK mags I bought has a dent in it that stops the follower from moving freely. The spring, floorplate, follower, and bottom spring piece all seem fine. If I were to get a new magazine body and replace the damages one with that, would that be considered making a new LCM? Or would that work as repairing a broken LCM?
Technically the body would be legal to replace. However, most retailers don't ship it to CA. But you may be able to find one. I know Lee's Mags was shipping parts.
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Old 04-10-2019, 8:54 AM
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Ok, I'm going to be asking a few questions (these relate to being done within the legal window)

32310 says it was legal to manufacture SCMs. But 32311 says you can't do that. I'm confused by this

My understanding (prob wrong) is you could convert a 10/30 to a full 30 via spring swap. The spring doesn't change the magazine dimension-wise and falls under 32310. Same with a disassembled kit? It's just parts of a normal mag that, if already assembled, was legal. Bring in state and assemble = bad, but assemble out of state and then bring in = good?

32311 prohibits modding a mag past it's designed capacity via extender? A 10rnd mag spring swap to standard 15 is ok, but once you alter the outer length dim to accept 15+, then that's illegal?

I believe the ruling was only for 32310, but stating it was ok to manufacture would leave me to believe that kits and extenders are "manufacture" and thus protected regardless of 32311

I'm just trying to understand the double speak I'm reading (again, I'm prob wrong)
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2019, 9:46 AM
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32311 says you cannot acquire the parts necessary to manufacture/assemble a LCM, or to increase the capacity of an existing LCM.

But if you already had the parts, for the 1-week window it was legal to assemble them into or onto magazines.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #24  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
32311 says you cannot acquire the parts necessary to manufacture/assemble a LCM, or to increase the capacity of an existing LCM.

But if you already had the parts, for the 1-week window it was legal to assemble them into or onto magazines.
Okay, this is what I was thinking. Thank you for confirming, Librarian. Lee's Mags sells a Yugo magazine body. I'll try ordering one up once I finish licking my financial wounds
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Cope's Dist. View Post
Looks like all those rebuild kits we sent back in 2011,2012,2013 came to good use
They did, and THANK YOU!
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
32311 says you cannot acquire the parts necessary to manufacture/assemble a LCM, or to increase the capacity of an existing LCM.

But if you already had the parts, for the 1-week window it was legal to assemble them into or onto magazines.
So assemble kit out of state then import = legal. Assemble kit in state = illegal

I see the former is that it's an assembled mag when it crosses the state line and therefore legal (being no different than buying any other SCM at a store and importing)

Edit: another member feels that what I've stated is most likely correct (mag extension thread). As long as it crosses the state line assembled, it's legal
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Last edited by Armistice; 04-10-2019 at 12:48 PM..
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  #27  
Old 04-10-2019, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armistice View Post
So assemble kit out of state then import = legal. Assemble kit in state = illegal

I see the former is that it's an assembled mag when it crosses the state line and therefore legal (being no different than buying any other SCM at a store and importing)

Edit: another member feels that what I've stated is most likely correct (mag extension thread). As long as it crosses the state line assembled, it's legal
Either assembly in state or import already assembled were legal during the 1 week window, because the 'manufacture' and 'import' prohibitions of 32310 were not there.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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