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  #1  
Old 09-15-2019, 11:58 AM
DustyAR DustyAR is offline
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Default Single shot AR Pistol CA7

Now that Franklin Armory produced the CA7 just for us. Is it now worth it to dros a finished stripped lower and build it the same way? Reverse engineering the CA7 and save 100's of buckeroos?

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  #2  
Old 09-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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^^ Sure by an ar pistol lower and build as single shot.
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2019, 1:20 PM
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Understand that all stripped lowers are DROS as "long gun" even though it is 4473 as "other". So you can't actually build an AR pistol using a stripped receiver. The only way to get an AR pistol is buy an existing AR pistol or buy the CA7 and modify it.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2019, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instaramen View Post
Understand that all stripped lowers are DROS as "long gun" even though it is 4473 as "other". So you can't actually build an AR pistol using a stripped receiver. The only way to get an AR pistol is buy an existing AR pistol or buy the CA7 and modify it.
Ok it sounds like the lower would've had to be finished and dros'ed before the new law. Thanks that sounds clear to me.

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  #5  
Old 09-15-2019, 8:36 PM
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Methinks I will just shoot my .223 Contender.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2019, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instaramen View Post
Understand that all stripped lowers are DROS as "long gun" even though it is 4473 as "other". So you can't actually build an AR pistol using a stripped receiver. The only way to get an AR pistol is buy an existing AR pistol or buy the CA7 and modify it.


My stripped lower receiver was DROS as a semi auto handgun, got it ppt from LEO so I’m eligible to build the stripped receiver correct?


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  #7  
Old 09-15-2019, 11:06 PM
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If your DROS paperwork says handgun and you have the paperwork to back it up. Should be good just comply with the Maglock crap
Quote:
Originally Posted by DearestAN View Post
My stripped lower receiver was DROS as a semi auto handgun, got it ppt from LEO so I’m eligible to build the stripped receiver correct?


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  #8  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyAR View Post
Ok it sounds like the lower would've had to be finished and dros'ed before the new law.
Yes.
Before 2001 or 2014 depending on which interpretations of the safe handgun roster law you are trying to comply with.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DearestAN View Post
My stripped lower receiver was DROS as a semi auto handgun, got it ppt from LEO so I’m eligible to build the stripped receiver correct?
Yes.
As long as you did that before 2014 when the latest interpretation of manufacturing and the roster laws came out.
After that latest interpretation, it's generally accepted that you can only build roster compliant (single shot) handguns out of off-roster or self made firearms.
Back in 2013 and before, it was generally accepted that a single shot handgun could be converted to semi-auto.
That ended with the 2014 reinterpretation of manufacturing being applied to the safe handgun roster.

If your stripped reciever is registered as a semi-auto handgun, you are OK, especially if you DROSed it and assembled it as a semi-auto before 2014.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 09-16-2019 at 12:16 AM..
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2019, 5:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyAR View Post
Now that Franklin Armory produced the CA7 just for us. Is it now worth it to dros a finished stripped lower and build it the same way? Reverse engineering the CA7 and save 100's of buckeroos?
Starting 01-01-2014, how the factory virgin receiver was DROS'd or registered determines how and if it can legally be utilized to make a CA legal "handgun".
^"handgun" being a firearm with a less than 16" barrel length. [PC 16530(a)]

If the factory (07-FFL created) virgin (never used to make a functional firearm) receiver was DROS'd or registered as a "long gun, rifle, receiver"; then it can not be legally used to make a "handgun" and doing so, would result in an illegal SBR and not a "handgun".
^Weapon, with a less than 16" barrel length or less than 26" overall length, made from a "rifle". [PC 17170(c)]

If the factory (07-FFL created) virgin receiver was DROS'd or registered as a "handgun, pistol, single-shot" or "handgun, pistol, single-shot, receiver/frame"; then it can legally be used to only make a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally compliant break-open single-shot pistol.
Per CA DOJ, a handgun that is made as a a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally compliant break-open single-shot pistol, needs to remain configured as such in order to remain CA legal.

If the factory (07-FFL created) virgin receiver was DROS'd or registered as a "handgun, pistol, bolt-action" or "handgun, pistol, bolt-action, receiver/frame"; then it can be used to make a bolt-action repeating pistol that does not violate CA prohibited weapons laws.
^The Franklin Armory CA7 is an on-Roster handgun that is DROS'd as a "handgun, pistol, bolt-action".

If the factory (07-FFL created) virgin receiver was DROS'd or registered as a "handgun, pistol, semi-auto" or "handgun, pistol, semi-auto, receiver/frame"; then it can be used to make a semi-auto pistol that does not violate CA assault weapons laws and CA prohibited weapons laws.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-16-2019 at 5:18 AM..
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2019, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
The FA CA7 is not a single shot. It is bolt action
And it has to STAY one.
Converting it to a semi-auto makes it illegal.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
Not if it you make it a fixed magazine.
How does a fixed magazine keep it on the roster?

The issue is CHANGING a rostered non-semi-auto pistol over to semi-auto removes it from the roster.
Changing a rostered pistol from it's original configuration has been considered "manufacturing an unsafe handgun" since 2014.

This has nothing to do with AW compliance so a fixed magazine will not help or even matter.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:13 AM
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Yep, might as well get a Thompson Contender with a 223 barrel.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:16 AM
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So if my friend had a semi-auto AR pistol built from an 80% but decided to go ahead and destroy the receiver rather than register it, if she kept the pistol upper and buys an FA CA7 is that ok to still have the upper in her possession? Or will that be misconstrued as “intent to manufacture an assault weapon” even if she never wants or intends to swap uppers?
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocino View Post
So if my friend had a semi-auto AR pistol built from an 80% but decided to go ahead and destroy the receiver rather than register it, if he kept the pistol upper and buys an FA CA7 is that ok to still have the upper in his possession? Or will that be misconstrued as “intent to manufacture an assault weapon” even if she never wants or intends to swap uppers?
There is that one case where a guy was charged with "constructive possession" of an assault weapon without even assembling his parts as an assault weapon so it's possibly a problem.
However, that guy had other problems such as him being a prohibited person.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:44 AM
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I've heard it said (by a YouTube expert) that would be considered "conspiracy" to manufacture AOW/AW if the upper and the lower are within a "reasonable distance" to one another which carries an "inherent intent" to manufacture and or otherwise create the aforementioned. In other words posession of a upper that is not of the lawful length would contribute to conspiracy which would be the lasso they would use to rope an otherwise law abiding citizens into becoming a criminal *throws hands up and walks away*

?

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  #17  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyAR View Post
I've heard it said (by a YouTube expert) that would be considered "conspiracy" to manufacture AOW/AW if the upper and the lower are within a "reasonable distance" to one another which carries an "inherent intent" to manufacture and or otherwise create the aforementioned. In other words posession of a upper that is not of the lawful length would contribute to conspiracy which would be the lasso they would use to rope an otherwise law abiding citizens into becoming a criminal *throws hands up and walks away*

?
If you have the parts to make an assault weapon and they can prove you have the parts because you intend to use them to make an assault weapon, then you can be charged with attempted possession of an assault weapon.
^People v Nguyen = attempted possession of an assault weapon.

If you possess or have control over the parts to make a SBR/SBS, then it is "constructive" possession of a SBR/SBS. [PC 17170(e) & 17180(e)]
^Which means, if you possess or have control over an unattached short barrel AR upper and you only own/possess rifle AR lowers; then you are in possession of a SBR.



Penal Code 17170
As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyAR View Post
I've heard it said (by a YouTube expert) that would be considered "conspiracy" to manufacture AOW/AW if the upper and the lower are within a "reasonable distance" to one another which carries an "inherent intent" to manufacture and or otherwise create the aforementioned. In other words posession of a upper that is not of the lawful length would contribute to conspiracy which would be the lasso they would use to rope an otherwise law abiding citizens into becoming a criminal *throws hands up and walks away*

?

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Someone is talking out of his arse here. I'll challenge anyone to throw down some case law holding that intent to assemble is proved by the simple proximity of parts.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Someone is talking out of his arse here. I'll challenge anyone to throw down some case law holding that intent to assemble is proved by the simple proximity of parts.
Not in this case, but I believe the post was about "constructive possession" in general.

There is such a concept and it's not clear when/where/why it applies in one case, and when/where/why it doesn't apply in another. Case law seems to be the only guidance and few have the resources or the knowledge to dig through it all and be sure they haven't missed anything.
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
And it has to STAY one.
Converting it to a semi-auto makes it illegal.
I thought we were able to swap out the uppers and install a maglock. The argument ive heard being used is people who change parts on their glocks doesnt make them unsafe or off roster.

Was there a recent determination by the ATF/DOJ or something that I missed? Not trying to be a smartass, just curious what makes you say it will be illegal...
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quiet: a bit of thread drift here, but what's the current situation on off-roster SSE pistols DROSED in 2014? Must those remain as "single shot", and not converted to semi-auto to avoid "manufacturing"?
Same for SSE pistols prior to that?
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Old 09-16-2019, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
How does a fixed magazine keep it on the roster?

The issue is CHANGING a rostered non-semi-auto pistol over to semi-auto removes it from the roster.
Changing a rostered pistol from it's original configuration has been considered "manufacturing an unsafe handgun" since 2014.

This has nothing to do with AW compliance so a fixed magazine will not help or even matter.
False

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
And it has to STAY one.
Converting it to a semi-auto makes it illegal.
False

The reasons why are another thread. This has been beaten to death.

And if the OP bought a PPT AR pistol, that could be turned into whatever the buyer wanted as long as it doesn’t violate AW laws; roster is irrelevant.
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Last edited by plumbum; 09-16-2019 at 1:17 PM..
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Yes.
As long as you did that before 2014 when the latest interpretation of manufacturing and the roster laws came out.
After that latest interpretation, it's generally accepted that you can only build roster compliant (single shot) handguns out of off-roster or self made firearms.
Back in 2013 and before, it was generally accepted that a single shot handgun could be converted to semi-auto.
That ended with the 2014 reinterpretation of manufacturing being applied to the safe handgun roster.

If your stripped reciever is registered as a semi-auto handgun, you are OK, especially if you DROSed it and assembled it as a semi-auto before 2014.


The stripped receiver was DROS to me earlier this year, meaning I can’t build it as a semi auto?


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  #24  
Old 09-17-2019, 5:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Quiet: a bit of thread drift here, but what's the current situation on off-roster SSE pistols DROSED in 2014? Must those remain as "single shot", and not converted to semi-auto to avoid "manufacturing"?
Same for SSE pistols prior to that?
The CA DOJ notice applies to SSE2 pistols (2015-current).
It does not apply to SSE pistols (2006-2014).


Quote:
Originally Posted by DearestAN View Post
The stripped receiver was DROS to me earlier this year, meaning I can’t build it as a semi auto?
See post #10 in this thread.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-17-2019 at 5:42 AM..
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Old 09-17-2019, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The CA DOJ notice applies to SSE2 pistols (2015-current).
It does not apply to SSE pistols (2006-2014).



See post #10 in this thread.
Thank you.
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  #26  
Old 09-17-2019, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DearestAN View Post
The stripped receiver was DROS to me earlier this year, meaning I can’t build it as a semi auto?
What does it say on your DROS form?
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Old 09-17-2019, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What does it say on your DROS form?


Type: HANDGUN
Category: SEMI-AUTOMATIC
New/used: USED
Frame/Receiver Only: YES


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Old 09-17-2019, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DearestAN View Post
Type: HANDGUN
Category: SEMI-AUTOMATIC
New/used: USED
Frame/Receiver Only: YES


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Private party is good to go - just keep a magazine lock on it and 10 or less round magazine and build away (per AW regs, of course).
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