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  #1  
Old 09-06-2019, 2:43 PM
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Default Probably not going to reload these

Maybe I could anneal them, but I'm not sure they'll shoot well.

Factory Winchester 25 WSSM 120grainers. Never had this happen with factory ammo before, guess I'll find a chamber brush now. At least Hornady is making .243 WSSM cases, so finding brass isn't so hard these days.

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Old 09-06-2019, 2:49 PM
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Yea probably a good idea to toss them.
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Old 09-06-2019, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Maybe I could anneal them, but I'm not sure they'll shoot well.

Factory Winchester 25 WSSM 120grainers. Never had this happen with factory ammo before, guess I'll find a chamber brush now. At least Hornady is making .243 WSSM cases, so finding brass isn't so hard these days.

Set them up on a shelf where you can see them , every time you touch your press . Makes a nice reminder .
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Old 09-06-2019, 2:53 PM
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That doesn't look right. Are you loading them too hot? Usually they split from the neck down. Those split along the shoulder into the neck.

The top of the necks look intact on both. What do the primers look like?
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Old 09-06-2019, 3:05 PM
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That doesn't look right. Are you loading them too hot? Usually they split from the neck down. Those split along the shoulder into the neck.

The top of the necks look intact on both. What do the primers look like?
This is factory ammo, not reloaded.

It's not a great pic, but it's the best I got that day. I still have the cases but don't have them with me at the moment to get another pic. Primers are pretty flat, but that seems to be SOP for factory Winchester ammo in this gun.
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Old 09-06-2019, 3:12 PM
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The load with the split neck was the factory loaded 120 PEP Winchester loading. However here's a comparison of a factory Winchester loading and my reloads, albeit a different factory load and different (nickel plated) brass.

In this picture we have the factory 115 grain ballistic tip Winchester load on the left, and two of my reloads on the right (87 grain speer and 100 grain SGK).


25 WSSM is turning out to be a learning experience.
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Old 09-06-2019, 3:36 PM
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split necks usually means heavily worked brass.

not only that its been fired a whole bunch of times, but in this case, where the brass is new, if new, then it was not made very well.

don't buy those again.
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Old 09-06-2019, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
split necks usually means heavily worked brass.

not only that its been fired a whole bunch of times, but in this case, where the brass is new, if new, then it was not made very well.

don't buy those again.
I shot 10 or so rounds of this ammo back in April without a problem, not sure what happened here. It was hot out so I could see it being a pressure issue, but I'm not used to pressure problems causing this sort of neck splitting.

Better reloaders than I (on this forum as well as elsewhere) have warned me that split necks aren't uncommon with reloaded WSSMs and that I should plan on annealing sooner rather than later, but I wasn't expecting this with factory ammo.

I bought them for the brass originall, that they were already loaded was a bonus!
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Old 09-06-2019, 4:33 PM
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Get some Starline brass or at least Hornady factory ammo.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2019, 5:08 PM
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Hornady makes 243 WSSM which should size up to 25, but other than Winchester no one makes 25 WSSM, and Winchester only makes it occasionally. I'll probably end up buying a bag of the Hornady and resizing it, nice and slow with lots of lube just to see how it goes.
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Old 09-06-2019, 7:10 PM
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I've had .243 brass split like that but it was used and I assume it had been heavily worked. I would not expect new brass to split that way, which suggests it's either badly made or it's been reloaded too many times.

You *might* want to call Winchester and let them know.
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Old 09-06-2019, 7:55 PM
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If you got a good deal on the purchase price then what's the big deal?
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Old 09-06-2019, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
The load with the split neck was the factory loaded 120 PEP Winchester loading. However here's a comparison of a factory Winchester loading and my reloads, albeit a different factory load and different (nickel plated) brass.

In this picture we have the factory 115 grain ballistic tip Winchester load on the left, and two of my reloads on the right (87 grain speer and 100 grain SGK).


25 WSSM is turning out to be a learning experience.
First one Is a little on the hot side

Your reloads look fine.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2019, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sub95 View Post
First one Is a little on the hot side

Your reloads look fine.
Hah, yeah. The WSSMs are loaded pretty hot. I'm actually unclear if they are SAAMI listed but I think they are around 62k PSI.
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Old 09-06-2019, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
split necks usually means heavily worked brass.

not only that its been fired a whole bunch of times, but in this case, where the brass is new, if new, then it was not made very well.
It's not uncommon to have a case with a vertical wrinkle in the neck from when the neck was being formed.
It happens more commonly when the caliber is considerably smaller than the case body and the shoulder has a steep angle.
I have run into it on brand new 243 brass.
They are supposed to get culled at the factory during visual inspection but some slip though.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:01 PM
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Looks like you got a couple overloaded rounds that somehow got in the box. The brass might have been okay, but excessive pressure tore it up. That's a really, really flat primer and weak brass couldn't have caused it.
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Old 09-07-2019, 4:50 AM
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How old was the ammunition?, and had it been stored in something like a vehicle or un air conditioned environments?
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Old 09-07-2019, 11:06 AM
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Ammunition stored in a vehicle or air conditioned environment? You mean like inside ccw'ers privately owned Toyota?

Dang. Ammunition manufactures must be making ammo that is perishable as donuts these days.
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Old 09-07-2019, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Ammunition stored in a vehicle or air conditioned environment? You mean like inside ccw'ers privately owned Toyota?

Dang. Ammunition manufactures must be making ammo that is perishable as donuts these days.

Store ammunition in a vehicle, it is going to get hot south of the Mason-Dixon line.

The shooting community is very ignorant about gunpowder aging. And this is another interesting example of Agnotology. That is the study of culturally induced ignorance.

First of all, no one makes a profit teaching you what not to buy. Telling you shooters that ammunition has a (unknown) shelf life is bad for business. You might want a "best buy" date on the can, and then you might get fussy about spending money on 10 year old, 20 year old ammunition.

Secondly, no one in the shooting community wants to hear it. You all are under the delusion you are going to live forever, and therefore your ammunition hoard has to be also immortal. You ignore any indications that gunpowder/ammunition deteriorates. The shooting community is quite in denial about the whole thing.

Now for those with a technical background, maybe this makes sense to you:gunpowder is a high energy compound breaking down, from the day it is made, to a low energy compound. Its lifetime is uncertain, the big word is:interminable. Because of the resemblance of the word interminable (which means unknowable) to the word infinite, most shooters will delude themselves into thinking I have just said ammunition has an infinite lifetime. Far from it, but, that's what you want to believe.

Now heat is the worst enemy of gunpowder. I pulled this from a UN report about demilling ammunition stocks, but this shows that the hotter it is, the faster gunpowder deteriorates. The UN report was more or less about all munitions, but generally the gunpowder we use are either single based or double based. Double based has less than half the expected shelf life of single base, and that is due to the nitroglycerine in the mix attacking nitro cellulose.



If you are a real techie, maybe you would understand this statement. The deterioration of gunpowder follows the Arrhenius equation with respect to temperature. That is, it is an exponential deterioration with respect to temperature.

I loaded these 30-06 with new IMR 4895 back in the mid nineties.



And when I fired them in 2017, the case necks cracked. This is due to nitrogen dioxide outgassing from the gun powder.

These are cases I loaded with surplus AA2520 and maybe seven years later (I would have to check my notes) they cracked like this.





These were loaded with new, and I mean it was fresh from the distributor new, N140. Kept in the house till I shot them. And they cracked



I could go on for pages and pages and pages about the thermo chemistry of gunpowder deterioration, stabilizer content, and firearms blown up with old gunpowder, and basically, it does not take. The shooting community ignores all evidence contrary to the belief that they and their ammunition are immortal.

Hence, Agnotology rules. You cannot have culturally induced ignorance if you were not suggestible, susceptible and industry did not reinforce your biases in the first place.

But it is worth asking, such as I did for the OP, how old is your ammunition and where did you store it?
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2019, 5:05 PM
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Find a weld shop and braze them back up. You can use soft solder, but it won't hold up to repetitive reloadings.
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  #21  
Old 09-07-2019, 5:32 PM
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So you use big words (the big word is "sesquipedalian"), load bad ammo, and somehow you're an expert?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
Store ammunition in a vehicle, it is going to get hot south of the Mason-Dixon line.

The shooting community is very ignorant about gunpowder aging. And this is another interesting example of Agnotology. That is the study of culturally induced ignorance.

First of all, no one makes a profit teaching you what not to buy. Telling you shooters that ammunition has a (unknown) shelf life is bad for business. You might want a "best buy" date on the can, and then you might get fussy about spending money on 10 year old, 20 year old ammunition.

Secondly, no one in the shooting community wants to hear it. You all are under the delusion you are going to live forever, and therefore your ammunition hoard has to be also immortal. You ignore any indications that gunpowder/ammunition deteriorates. The shooting community is quite in denial about the whole thing.

Now for those with a technical background, maybe this makes sense to you:gunpowder is a high energy compound breaking down, from the day it is made, to a low energy compound. Its lifetime is uncertain, the big word is:interminable. Because of the resemblance of the word interminable (which means unknowable) to the word infinite, most shooters will delude themselves into thinking I have just said ammunition has an infinite lifetime. Far from it, but, that's what you want to believe.

Now heat is the worst enemy of gunpowder. I pulled this from a UN report about demilling ammunition stocks, but this shows that the hotter it is, the faster gunpowder deteriorates. The UN report was more or less about all munitions, but generally the gunpowder we use are either single based or double based. Double based has less than half the expected shelf life of single base, and that is due to the nitroglycerine in the mix attacking nitro cellulose.



If you are a real techie, maybe you would understand this statement. The deterioration of gunpowder follows the Arrhenius equation with respect to temperature. That is, it is an exponential deterioration with respect to temperature.

I loaded these 30-06 with new IMR 4895 back in the mid nineties.



And when I fired them in 2017, the case necks cracked. This is due to nitrogen dioxide outgassing from the gun powder.

These are cases I loaded with surplus AA2520 and maybe seven years later (I would have to check my notes) they cracked like this.





These were loaded with new, and I mean it was fresh from the distributor new, N140. Kept in the house till I shot them. And they cracked



I could go on for pages and pages and pages about the thermo chemistry of gunpowder deterioration, stabilizer content, and firearms blown up with old gunpowder, and basically, it does not take. The shooting community ignores all evidence contrary to the belief that they and their ammunition are immortal.

Hence, Agnotology rules. You cannot have culturally induced ignorance if you were not suggestible, susceptible and industry did not reinforce your biases in the first place.

But it is worth asking, such as I did for the OP, how old is your ammunition and where did you store it?
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Old 09-07-2019, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
So you use big words (the big word is "sesquipedalian"), load bad ammo, and somehow you're an expert?

I did not load these:





Nor these:



I did not load these, but the pictures are great:



And somehow, you are not in denial?


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  #23  
Old 09-07-2019, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
How old was the ammunition?, and had it been stored in something like a vehicle or un air conditioned environments?
The lot number on the box suggests 02 May 2016, ammo was stored in a locking cabinet in my garage on the SF Bay, temps swing from the very occasional 100 degree day in the summer to the very occasional 30 degree night in the winter.

This same ammo, earlier in the year, showed no such problems.
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Old 09-07-2019, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub95 View Post
First one Is a little on the hot side

Your reloads look fine.
Now keep in mind, that's a Winchester primer on the left, and Federal 210s on the right in those nickel cases. I don't know if one is harder than the other, but I would guess so. All that being said Factory 85 grain Ballistic tips clock 3350 fps out of my barrel, with a book max load of Varget (the middle casing) I could only get 3230 (I don't have any Win 760 on hand, but presumably that would get me the extra 100 fps); but I'm not showing any pressure signs and, in fact, it seems I'm still under pressure with a max load of Varget given how sooty the case necks look. Though keep in mind, the case necks on WSSM brass are notorious for being overly thick. LynnJr shoots, or shoots with people who shoot WSSMs and that has been their experience. In a factory barrel thinning out the case necks isn't a great idea apparently. Necking up .243 WSSM brass is on possible solution, though perhaps not a great solution.

I'm just going to buy 50 of the Hornady .243 WSSM cases and see where it goes.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:33 AM
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So which one of you misinformed amateur garage reloaders want to go the range and do some shooting
with slamfire1 himself so you too can be called a dumb-sheet by a less experience reloader?

Slamfire1, in a friendly competition, should you wish to compare your reloading prowess with mine
you have my permission to call any of your friends as many times as needed to find the answers without penalty.

I don't use the ignore button very often, but in this case I'll make an exception.

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Old 09-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
So which one of you misinformed amateur garage reloaders want to go the range and do some shooting
with slamfire1 himself so you too can be called a dumb-sheet by a less experience reloader?

Slamfire1, in a friendly competition, should you wish to compare your reloading prowess with mine
you have my permission to call any of your friends as many times as needed to find the answers without penalty.

I don't use the ignore button very often, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Bye and good riddance.

Last edited by slamfire1; 09-08-2019 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
The lot number on the box suggests 02 May 2016, ammo was stored in a locking cabinet in my garage on the SF Bay, temps swing from the very occasional 100 degree day in the summer to the very occasional 30 degree night in the winter.

This same ammo, earlier in the year, showed no such problems.
That is very new ammunition to be experiencing gunpowder problems. But, in 2015 this IMR product had deteriorated so rapidly that IMR made a recall. None of this powder could be older than eight years as IMR 4007 came out in 2007, and yet by the time of the recall, 2015, some of it had deteriorated so much it was autocombusting in the can!





If you have powder problems then case neck cracking will continue and it will get worse. At first it will be onesies and twosies, and then it will be all of them. And finally, the cases will crack in the ammunition box. You might also notice the occasional over pressure round, this is due to burn rate instability.

I really doubt your ammunition has deteriorated to the point that the bullets are experiencing internal corrosion, these are extreme examples of very old ammunition





but it might be worth it to pull a couple of bullets and see if the bases have discolored. Like this.



This was powder that was around 20 years old and you can see the corrosive pattern on the base of the bullets. I poured this powder out.

If the powder is attacking cases pulling the bullets, dumping the powder, is prudent as you might be able to save some of the cases. Once nitric acid gas attacks brass, it is basically ruined. How you tell is you shoot the stuff and the brass that cracks in the case neck was ruined. Or if it cracks through the case head.

The reloader who bought this said it came from Scharch and it was pull down military brass. This happened in 300 yard RF in an AR15. The military inspects its ammunition and scraps the old stuff that is too dangerous to store or too dangerous to shoot. I am of the opinion that old gunpowder embrittled this brass which is why the case head cracked.


Last edited by slamfire1; 09-08-2019 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:54 AM
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Awhile ago I decided to breakdown and scrap some old handloads from the 1980's and '90's. These were Metallic Silhouette pistol loads for 7mm IHMSA and a few other calibers, using copper jacketed bullets. When using a collet type bullet puller, the bullets wouldn't pull, no matter how tight the collet. So, I decided to seat the bullets a few thousandths deeper and see what happened. As pressure increased on each bullet during seating, there was a sudden "tink" sound, as the case weld broke. Thereafter the bullets pulled normally. No need to analyze what or why, it just happens that as stuff ages, it changes.
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Old 09-17-2019, 4:50 AM
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Quote:
split necks usually means heavily worked brass.

not only that its been fired a whole bunch of times, but in this case, where the brass is new, if new, then it was not made very well.

don't buy those again.
Before anything is decided someone is going to have to explain the soot/black 'stuff' on the outside of the case. HOW DID IT GET THERE? !

When I fire a round I want the pressure to build up inside the case first, to accomplish that the case neck has to seal off the area between the case and chamber. If my necks do not seal off the area between the case and chamber fast enough my cases are ejected with splits and black stuff on the outside of the case and splits. there is 'not much' support for the case from outside in. Going the other way the chamber supports the case from the inside out.

reloaders do not think in the terms of sequence. If the pressure on the outside is greater than the pressure inside of the case the case the case will collapse. After the collapse? Then comes the split.

Anyone that has purchased a Turk rifle and fired Turk ammo in it has seen the soot on the outside of the case and splits, lots of splits, the reloader/shooter chambers a round and then, fires and then ejects the case and then? They just make up something.

F. Guffey

The Turks used streaker ammo, their bullets left streaks in the barrel, some shooters grease the bullets, some grease the bullets, case and chamber to reduces the streaks. I don't, I do not shoot streaker ammo.
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Old 09-17-2019, 5:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It's not uncommon to have a case with a vertical wrinkle in the neck from when the neck was being formed.
It happens more commonly when the caliber is considerably smaller than the case body and the shoulder has a steep angle.
Nobody noticed AR15's point here, did they? The wrinkle is pretty common in the production of WSSM, 6mmBR, 20PPC, etc.

Yes, old powder does go bad, but a weak spot created while case forming is most likely. As Randolf mentioned, I have come across 1 or 2 new Lapua 6mmBR with the wrinkle that was overlooked by the factory.

The "flat primer" doesn't necessarily mean over-pressure. New cases can be a few thou shorter than SAAMI spec headspace. Upon initial firing, the primer backs out a couple thou then squeezed by the case expansion giving a "flattened" look.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 09-17-2019 at 6:06 AM..
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Old 09-17-2019, 6:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Nobody noticed AR15's point here, did they? The wrinkle is pretty common in the production of WSSM, 6mmBR, 20PPC, etc.

Yes, old powder does go bad, but a weak spot created while case forming is most likely. As Randolf mentioned, I have come across 1 or 2 new Lapua 6mmBR with the wrinkle that was overlooked.
No one noticed the black stuff on the outside of the case, and I asked; "What is that stuff?" "How did it get there? What caused the soot looking black stuff to form on the outside of the case?

I am not a member of the mutual admiration society, I have my self respect and dignity, it does not bother me that is not appreciated.

A case former/reloaders makes up cute little sayings like; "the crease/dent/fold will pop out when fired".

I am a case former, I have 17 forming dies, most qualify as trim dies. I am the only reloaders that prefers short forming dies, my favorite forming die is the 308 W. The second most favorite is the 243W forming die. after that comes the belted case forming dies.

No one noticed? Absent were the tensioners, no one said there was too much neck tension, again I am the fan of bullet hold because I am the only one that has a tension gage marked off in pounds and no conversion for tensions to pounds.

F. Guffey
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Old 09-17-2019, 9:45 AM
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Nobody noticed AR15's point here, did they? The wrinkle is pretty common in the production of WSSM, 6mmBR, 20PPC, etc.

Yes, old powder does go bad, but a weak spot created while case forming is most likely. As Randolf mentioned, I have come across 1 or 2 new Lapua 6mmBR with the wrinkle that was overlooked by the factory.

The "flat primer" doesn't necessarily mean over-pressure. New cases can be a few thou shorter than SAAMI spec headspace. Upon initial firing, the primer backs out a couple thou then squeezed by the case expansion giving a "flattened" look.
I checked the rest of the ammo in that particular box and non of it seems to be wrinkled or have any sort of deformation in the neck. Maybe I can't see it, but it looks fine.

As for primers, I understand they're not a reliable indicator of pressure. I know that the WSSMs work at very high pressures, and I know the case necks tend to be overly thick so they tend to behave erratically at lower pressures. In factory shot ammo I'm used to seeing a bit of soot around the case neck. In my own reloads I see soot coming down almost into the shoulder area which makes me think my book max loads are not actually at max pressure in this rifle.

All that being said, 10 rounds of this ammo shot fine 6-8 months ago, and now 2 of 3 rounds fired had their necks split. I saw an article on ballisticstudies.com relaying that split necks weren't uncommon with reloads that had not been annealed, and that if you do get a split neck it's time to clean out the chamber as soot and grime from the blown out case neck can affect pressures in the chamber.

In my opinion, Winchester probably rolled out some 25 WSSM ammo (something they hadn't done for a few years) and in a rush job perhaps didn't completely anneal the brass before loading.

On another note, as far as reloading goes, my current combo of Varget, 100 SGK, Federal 210 Primers, Win Nickel Brass is probably suboptimal. I was having problems with my chrono the day I was doing development 6-8 months ago and only loaded 3 rounds at each charge weight. Two charge weights in a row the chrono only registered 2 rounds but the average velocity from 40.4 grains to 41.5 grains of Varget was 41.5 grains. As charge weight increased the velocity stayed roughly the same but the standard deviation went down (not enough statistical data to really tell though since I was only firing 3 rounds at each weight). I've seen this happen before in other rifles (namely a .243 Winchester) and at some point you keep increasing the charge and you get a spike in velocity (and pressure of course), but get a great group and low SD; though that point seems to be an unstable equilibrium such that small changes in charge weight and or temperature swings cause large variations in velocity. In my experience this tends to happen right around the book max pressure loads, so I tend to stop there erring on the side of caution.
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Old 09-17-2019, 9:48 AM
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No one noticed the black stuff on the outside of the case, and I asked; "What is that stuff?" "How did it get there? What caused the soot looking black stuff to form on the outside of the case?
Seems obvious to me that the soot and black marks on the outside of the split brass was soot from powder and/or gas escaping the case through the crack and burning in the chamber.

In the factory ammo you'll see soot coming down the case neck, in my reloads it comes down further; which I attribute to either a) not reloading to the same pressure as factory ammo or b) once fired cases that had not been annealed don't expand and obturate as easily/efficiently as virgin brass.

That being said, the cases with the split neck were brand new factory ammo, not reloads.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:01 AM
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That being said, the cases with the split neck were brand new factory ammo, not reloads.
In the beginning there was a remote chance I misunderstood you; BUT I understood you to say the cases were factory, over the counter new unfired ammo.

And then there is the other thing 'no one but me noticed' , that would be the black stuff on the outside of the case body. I have given up trying to get reloadeers to consider time as a factor, and then there is distance.

When I pull the trigger I want the neck of the case to seal the chamber. If I am using slow burning powder there is a chance the gas will get between the chamber and neck before the neck seals, and then there is another chance the neck and or chamber will not seal if the pressure is to low for different reasons. One reason the bullet is too small for the barrel. Another reason; the barrel could be shot out. And then there is sizing of the case. I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

Again, I have one 30/06 chamber that is .016" longer from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face than a minimum length/full length sized case. Before the pressure can get serious in that chamber with minimum length/full length sized cases the case has to expand/form to the chamber first.

I mentioned Turk ammo. Many of my fired cases are ejected with splits that give the appearance the case was hit with a shaped charge. I could say; "Think about it" problem, there is no way to provoke a reloader to think.

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Old 09-17-2019, 12:27 PM
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I'm still waiting on my head space lesson Guffy??
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:59 PM
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No one even mentioned tensions or datum and he still showed up. Interesting. I wonder what other word summons him.
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Old 09-17-2019, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
In the beginning there was a remote chance I misunderstood you; BUT I understood you to say the cases were factory, over the counter new unfired ammo.

And then there is the other thing 'no one but me noticed' , that would be the black stuff on the outside of the case body. I have given up trying to get reloadeers to consider time as a factor, and then there is distance.
Are you saying that the cases are are splitting at the neck because there's not enough chamber pressure built up quickly enough to properly obturate the bore allowing gas to blow by over the shoulder and cut/crack it?

I grabbed the rest of the cases that I fired earlier in the year and discovered I had misremembered how much sooting there was. Some were, like my reloads, sooted back to the neck/shoulder junction. Some were sooted back over the shoulder.

My current thoughts are that Winchester just screwed up a bunch of brass and didn't properly anneal after forming. My second inclination is to think that the overly thick necks don't obturate well and have been blowing back soot into the chamber gunking up the chamber at the shoulder and creating a stress riser.

I cleaned the chamber today, it did not seem overly gunky despite the two blown case necks a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 09-17-2019, 4:47 PM
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No one even mentioned tensions or datum and he still showed up. Interesting. I wonder what other word summons him.
"Shoulder bump"
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Old 09-17-2019, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I checked the rest of the ammo in that particular box and non of it seems to be wrinkled or have any sort of deformation in the neck. Maybe I can't see it, but it looks fine.
Look closely here on your case where I circled. It appears to be a divot, possibly where the crease ended. Maybe cut the case lengthwise to analyze the failure. Maybe you are right that Winchester made a run of poorly annealed cases.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post

I grabbed the rest of the cases that I fired earlier in the year and discovered I had misremembered how much sooting there was. Some were, like my reloads, sooted back to the neck/shoulder junction. Some were sooted back over the shoulder.

Whether it's reloads or factory you shouldn't have soot past the middle of the neck. We were assuming the soot came from low pressure due to a failed case.
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Old 09-17-2019, 7:26 PM
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This is pretty representative of how cases have always looked coming out of this gun, the exception being that only the brass cases have sooted past the neck. The nickel cased factory ammo has only ever sooted the neck up, never the shoulder.



I'll get the loupe out and see if I can see a wrinkle on that blown case.
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