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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 08-12-2019, 2:12 PM
Irish-Dannyboy Irish-Dannyboy is offline
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Default Will this ever become easier in LA county?

Iím curious if itís constantly being worked on to make it easier for us law abiding people to get a permit? In the past year Iíve had guns pulled on me twice. Once by a business associate who turned crazy and another by a guy from offer up who I met to sell a watch to.

The criminals will also have their illegally owned guns on them while we donít want to break the law.

I also own recording studio that caters to a certain demographic provided by the record companies and they tend to all carry and are not shy about it.

Itís a ridiculous law that only favors criminals.
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Old 08-12-2019, 5:49 PM
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This is just my opinion but the only way LA will ever become "Shall Issue" is through the court system. And right now I think Young vs Hawaii is the best shot. You can read about Young v. Hawaii at the link and I'm sure there's a thread on it in the legal section.


https://harvardlawreview.org/2019/05/young-v-hawaii/
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Old 08-12-2019, 8:25 PM
glock21sf glock21sf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Dannyboy View Post
Iím curious if itís constantly being worked on to make it easier for us law abiding people to get a permit? In the past year Iíve had guns pulled on me twice. Once by a business associate who turned crazy and another by a guy from offer up who I met to sell a watch to.

The criminals will also have their illegally owned guns on them while we donít want to break the law.

I also own recording studio that caters to a certain demographic provided by the record companies and they tend to all carry and are not shy about it.

Itís a ridiculous law that only favors criminals.
LA County will fight it till the very end. Then, they will restrict the hell out of it so that it is not practical to carry. I've met one regular person with an LA county permit at a training class. His permit is only good for one year. He is on his first renewal. They put him through the wringer during his renewal application. He got the permit because gang members burned crosses in his front lawn. He's a fighter and wouldn't give up no matter how many times the Sheriff's Department tried to discourage him.

Years ago, when I lived in LA County, the Sheriff's Deputies that came into our business told me to carry. For over 14 years I did what I had to do to be safe. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable and don't tell anyone if you decide to carry.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:09 PM
Irish-Dannyboy Irish-Dannyboy is offline
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Originally Posted by glock21sf View Post
LA County will fight it till the very end. Then, they will restrict the hell out of it so that it is not practical to carry. I've met one regular person with an LA county permit at a training class. His permit is only good for one year. He is on his first renewal. They put him through the wringer during his renewal application. He got the permit because gang members burned crosses in his front lawn. He's a fighter and wouldn't give up no matter how many times the Sheriff's Department tried to discourage him.

Years ago, when I lived in LA County, the Sheriff's Deputies that came into our business told me to carry. For over 14 years I did what I had to do to be safe. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable and don't tell anyone if you decide to carry.
Interesting. I respect your rationing. Can we talk a little bit about the law in certain circumstance so I dont have to go too far down google lane tonight.

Lets say someone does carry as you say without permit and the following scenarios happen.

A: Cops stop you for any reason, tail light , walking funny whatever and find you are carrying without CCW, what can happen. I know they can fine and imprison which is probably unlikely in first offense for imprisonment.

Will they seize your weapon there and then not give it back until after court?

I guess they need to prove probably cause to search you.

B: You carry without permit and find yourself in a situation where you must use it, wether it be deadly force to save your life or someone elses or to hold someone off while you call the police to come and assist etc etc.

What happens now? Do they revoke it, do they arrest and cite you for no permit even though you are a victim?

Murky waters I imagine?
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  #5  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:31 PM
glock21sf glock21sf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Dannyboy View Post
Interesting. I respect your rationing. Can we talk a little bit about the law in certain circumstance so I dont have to go too far down google lane tonight.

Lets say someone does carry as you say without permit and the following scenarios happen.

A: Cops stop you for any reason, tail light , walking funny whatever and find you are carrying without CCW, what can happen. I know they can fine and imprison which is probably unlikely in first offense for imprisonment.

Will they seize your weapon there and then not give it back until after court?

I guess they need to prove probably cause to search you.

B: You carry without permit and find yourself in a situation where you must use it, wether it be deadly force to save your life or someone elses or to hold someone off while you call the police to come and assist etc etc.

What happens now? Do they revoke it, do they arrest and cite you for no permit even though you are a victim?

Murky waters I imagine?
If you're stopped for a minor infraction and the vehicle is registered to you with the registration up to date, your not going to to be searched unless you give them a reason. Be cool, sign your ticket, wish the officer a good day and you'll be fine.

If your using the weapon in a justifiable way to defend yourself or others from an attack that's likely to cause great bodily injury or death, believe it or not, at that point it's legal for you to have a firearm. It can magically appear and you won't be charged for the unlicensed carry. They'll take it for evidence and you'll probably get it back.

If you don't have a criminal record and are caught and prosecuted for illegally carrying a gun that is registered to you, you'll more than likely lose the gun and pay a fine the first time. It will cost you several thousand dollars in attorneys fees. Good lawyers cost money and get the best results.

The second time it's a much bigger deal that may include loss of your right to possess firearms. If you have one conviction, don't get convicted again.

I was almost murdered during a robbery and hate crime. I barely survived. It took me a year to return to work after 6 surgeries and I was in constant fear for a long time. I cannot see out of one of my eyes, lost my sense of smell, and am permanently disfigured. As you can imagine, my motivation to protect my life is different than most people. I refuse to be a victim again.

I moved to OC and don't have to worry about a non-issuing County anymore. If you can, I recommend you move to an issuing County with a better Sheriff.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:58 AM
Irish-Dannyboy Irish-Dannyboy is offline
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Originally Posted by glock21sf View Post
If you're stopped for a minor infraction and the vehicle is registered to you with the registration up to date, your not going to to be searched unless you give them a reason. Be cool, sign your ticket, wish the officer a good day and you'll be fine.

If your using the weapon in a justifiable way to defend yourself or others from an attack that's likely to cause great bodily injury or death, believe it or not, at that point it's legal for you to have a firearm. It can magically appear and you won't be charged for the unlicensed carry. They'll take it for evidence and you'll probably get it back.

If you don't have a criminal record and are caught and prosecuted for illegally carrying a gun that is registered to you, you'll more than likely lose the gun and pay a fine the first time. It will cost you several thousand dollars in attorneys fees. Good lawyers cost money and get the best results.

The second time it's a much bigger deal that may include loss of your right to possess firearms. If you have one conviction, don't get convicted again.

I was almost murdered during a robbery and hate crime. I barely survived. It took me a year to return to work after 6 surgeries and I was in constant fear for a long time. I cannot see out of one of my eyes, lost my sense of smell, and am permanently disfigured. As you can imagine, my motivation to protect my life is different than most people. I refuse to be a victim again.

I moved to OC and don't have to worry about a non-issuing County anymore. If you can, I recommend you move to an issuing County with a better Sheriff.

Interesting. I am sorry to hear that had happened to you. I can imagine how traumatic that must be.

So after the first time you dont think you would lose your right to own a firearm?

Can you point me to a link which talks about the gun magically being legal in the above circumstance we discussed.

Your allowed have them in your place of business right?

Oh wow so the OC is easy to get CCW?
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2019, 4:23 AM
glock21sf glock21sf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Dannyboy View Post
Interesting. I am sorry to hear that had happened to you. I can imagine how traumatic that must be.

So after the first time you dont think you would lose your right to own a firearm?

Can you point me to a link which talks about the gun magically being legal in the above circumstance we discussed.

Your allowed have them in your place of business right?

Oh wow so the OC is easy to get CCW?
Thank you, I'm fine now. Time heals and I'm much more capable in regards to self-defense now.


Here is a good link for loaded carry, non-licensed carrying and self defense. Read the entire page for information on penalties as well:

https://www.shouselaw.com/25850.html


Quote about self-defense being a defense in the link:

"2.5. You were carrying a gun in self-defense
California's self-defense lawÖ specifically addressed under Penal Code 26045 PCÖ allows you to carry a gun under two circumstances:

1. under otherwise lawful circumstances where you reasonably believe that:

any personÖ or the property of any personÖ
is in immediate, grave danger, and
the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property; or

2. you reasonably believe

that you are in grave dangerÖ
because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a courtÖ
against another person who has been found to pose a threat to your life or safety.

Whether your belief of grave danger is reasonable is an objective standard. A judge and/or jury will decide how a reasonable person would have acted in your situation."

If you ever have a justifiable use of force incident. Politely ask for to speak to your attorney and shut your mouth. Your attorney can articulate why and how you had the gun on you. Again, that's going to cost money. I only recommend you defending yourself or a loved one in that situation. Only defend others if you have a permit, are well trained, and have insurance.

Business owners can have a loaded firearm in their business. Arguments are made that business owners can or can't carry it without a permit. I always carried inside our businesses without any issues before obtaining a CCW permit.

It's not "easy" to get your CCW in OC. This is what you can expect over a 1 to 4 month period. In extreme cases it has taken a year or longer:

Figure out your good cause statement, fill out the application and gather all the required documents. Submit them online and wait.... Go to an interview appointment at OCSD, if the investigator recommends you continue moving forward, you'll go do the live scan fingerprints and firearms clearance check, and wait... Get approved or denied, if approved: do the required 16 hours training, submit the certificate and wait..., Get a message that you're ready to pick up your permit, go to the OCSD and pick it up on that great day.

There is definitely a process but, it is obtainable. Last time I read, over 16,000 people had active permits in OC.

If your safety is definitely in jeopardy, any rational person is going to do with that have to do. Since CCW's are obtainable now, it's much easier just to move to a County that issues permits. Our businesses are in Los Angeles County. I moved to a better area and as close to LA County as I could without being in that County. My backyard fence is the county line. Obtaining a CCW permit is your best option. If you can, make the move to a better County. Compared to the city I used to live in, things are better here anyway you look at it.
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Old 08-13-2019, 9:39 PM
starlight starlight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Dannyboy View Post
Interesting. I respect your rationing. Can we talk a little bit about the law in certain circumstance so I dont have to go too far down google lane tonight.

Lets say someone does carry as you say without permit and the following scenarios happen.

A: Cops stop you for any reason, tail light , walking funny whatever and find you are carrying without CCW, what can happen. I know they can fine and imprison which is probably unlikely in first offense for imprisonment.

Will they seize your weapon there and then not give it back until after court?

I guess they need to prove probably cause to search you.

B: You carry without permit and find yourself in a situation where you must use it, wether it be deadly force to save your life or someone elses or to hold someone off while you call the police to come and assist etc etc.

What happens now? Do they revoke it, do they arrest and cite you for no permit even though you are a victim?

Murky waters I imagine?

- please talk to a lawyer
- he/she will give you the best LEGAL advise
- remember, lawyers are legal experts, no need to 'guess what might happen'
- consult an expert
- you'll prolly pay a few hundred bucks for an hour chat




...
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Old 08-14-2019, 1:07 PM
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Default Will this ever become easier in LA county?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Dannyboy View Post
Will this ever become easier in LA County?
No.
Next question?
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