|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
#1
05-30-2019, 8:44 AM
|
||||
|
||||
I usually don't post in this thread but
For the life of me I cannot understand all the recent support in the news from various companies and individuals as well in regard to abortion.
I truly believe that in the not too distant future society will look back at what was acceptable and wonder what in the world people were thinking. To have these public companies come out and pretty much support it is mind numbing to me. I personally do understand the procedure if it was needed to save the life of the Mom, but other than that I have a hard time accepting what is currently accepted. I'm hoping for insight from our members here to help me try to understand the current wave out there. 
|
|
#2
05-30-2019, 9:37 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
__________________
“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.” - James Burgh
|
|
#3
05-30-2019, 11:29 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Moloch must have his sacrifice. It is the nature of unregenerate man to sacrifice to false gods. Satan sees to it. The Bible is full of these cases. The Celts did it. Many central and south American tribes did it. It's nothing new. It just sucks to have to sit in the middle of this foul, putrid practice.
__________________
Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew
|
|
#4
05-30-2019, 12:00 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. When Paul summarizes all mankind apart from Christ, what is part of that summary (in Romans 3:9-20)? Unsaved man as a propensity to murder... Romans 3:15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, IOW, Satan's desire is to see the plan of God thwarted with as many going to hell as possible. So, do not be surprised to see so much death and such attitudes about death. What happens to an aborted baby? Instant heaven (e.g. 2 Sam. 12:23). So, even though it is a tragedy, a sin of murder, and something we work against, God still wins as those souls go straight to heaven without having to experience this fallen world as we do. I'm expecting to see heaven with many, many of God's children taken home from the womb, from young childhood, etc.
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther
|
|
#5
05-30-2019, 12:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
the recent wave as you put it, is like a child being told it can't do what it wants to do, so it throws a tantrum. There is no "good" reason for arguing for abortion so they are only left with tantrums. And the anti God media(for the most part) are happy to broadcast all the tantrums, hoping to persuade just a couple more people that abortion is our right as Americans(which it is not). Corporations just stick their fingers in the air and side with the position they think has the strongest wind behind it.
|
|
#6
05-30-2019, 12:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Infanticide and even abandonment of the elderly were fairly common for the vast majority of human history. I read of a culture somewhere (don't recall at the moment) that doesn't consider an infant a person until after the first year. Since infant mortality was at about 40% (also the natural infant mortality of just about every wild creature) for most of our history, it makes sense to me that the community wouldn't want to get too invested in a baby until it has shown that it can survive past the first year.
That's all rather detached but it's all sad to me. I don't know of anybody who is really pro-abortion so much as pro-mind-your-own-business. Women have been having abortions long before there were doctors. The modern abortion is a far safer option than what women did for thousands of years prior. Now if the anti-abortion crowd was out trying to personally adopt as many kids as possible from foster & group homes, living up to their pro-life mantra, I'd be a lot more inclined to bend my ear to what they're saying. That would be saintly & deserving of some attention. It's ironic to me that the "pro-life" crowd is often the most heartless to the living. Oh well. Maybe if there were more abortions, there would be fewer people on generational welfare. I believe that was the guiding ideology of Margaret Sanger & many of the original folks who pushed to get it legalized. I'm not saying I know what's right either way. I just know, as a guy, it's none of my business. I'll let others decide what is right for them and their families.
|
|
#8
05-30-2019, 11:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
https://youtu.be/ysl1tRnk-ig SG
__________________
... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
|
|
#9
05-31-2019, 5:57 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#10
05-31-2019, 8:59 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
KJV But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. Instant heaven? I do not see that in that passgae. Wrong reference?
|
|
#11
05-31-2019, 9:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seriously, we're quibbling over something that is undefined even among Jews and Christians. Here's what a quick google search turned up:
****************** Ten biblical episodes and prophecies provide an unequivocal expression of God's attitude toward human life, especially the ontological status of "unborn children" and their pregnant mothers-to-be. Brief summaries: • A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25). • The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31). • God enumerated his punishments for disobedience, including "cursed shall be the fruit of your womb" and "you will eat the fruit of your womb," directly contradicting sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53). • Elisha's prophecy for soon-to-be King Hazael said he would attack the Israelites, burn their cities, crush the heads of their babies and rip open their pregnant women (2 Kings 8:12). • King Menahem of Israel destroyed Tiphsah (also called Tappuah) and the surrounding towns, killing all residents and ripping open pregnant women with the sword (2 Kings 15:16). • Isaiah prophesied doom for Babylon, including the murder of unborn children: "They will have no pity on the fruit of the womb" (Isaiah 13:18). • For worshiping idols, God declared that not one of his people would live, not a man, woman or child (not even babies in arms), again confuting assertions about the sanctity of life (Jeremiah 44:7-8). • God will punish the Israelites by destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16). • For rebelling against God, Samaria's people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword (Hosea 13:16). • Jesus did not express any special concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: "Woe to pregnant women and those who are nursing" (Matthew 24:19). *************** So the old law even mandated an abortion by divine power if a the child was conceived by adultery. And God cursed people's unborn children to death if he didn't like them. Yea, so much for the sanctity of life. So, yes, if Jews and Christians can't even agree on when life begins and what lives are sacred vs profane, then I think the government needs to steer clear of the whole issue. They certainly can't resolve it for every other religious creed, the atheists, agnostics, unorganized religions, etc. This is a religious issue, not a political one. The state needs to stay out of it. Meanwhile a little song started running through my head: "Every sperm is sacred..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
|
|
#12
05-31-2019, 9:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
In the OT era, death sent persons either to Paradise, or Sheol/Hell. When Jesus was raised from death He took the occupants of Paradise/Abraham's Bosom into heaven, so, depending on where you are in this conversion, yes, aborted babies go immediately to heaven. See what St Paul had to say about this, where he said: He ( Jesus ) lead cativity out of Paradise. Billvau may have more to express on this.
Psalm 1
|
|
#14
05-31-2019, 11:01 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I appreciate your posts shooter, they make me think. God can do whatever he decides with men (past,present and future) and be perfectly just, because all are guilty. But since you brought up the law, how about the greatest one of all. Love your neighbor as yourself. If you want to say that a fetus is not your neighbor that's on you. Have a good one
|
|
#15
05-31-2019, 3:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#16
06-01-2019, 2:11 AM
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
 Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Privacy has nothing to do with it. There is no right to kill another human being in private. It's not a part of a woman's body but a separate human individual just like me and everyone else reading this forum once was...  SG
__________________
... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. Last edited by SelfGovernor; 06-01-2019 at 9:23 AM..
|
|
#17
06-02-2019, 6:01 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Last edited by 4aces; 06-02-2019 at 7:00 AM..
|
|
#18
06-04-2019, 4:18 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Abortion is complicated because it requires that the genesis of life be defined.
Most people oppose late term abortion but with all things political the verbiage is muddled. One of the clearest things about the obortion debate is the fact that Congress will not vote on when to define life or even allow a debate to take place. Even when the Republicans controlled both houses the bills would be squashed in committee. I have no moral problem with abortion in the few days and or week I just don't want to pay for it. If a woman wants to remove a person from her body at any time does she have the right to? Tough question that has implications and repercussions beyond the unborn.
__________________
I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns
|
|
#19
06-05-2019, 11:23 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I have a business degree and have worked in upper management of tech companies since 1994 so I have experience and I have thought a lot about these behaviors. Then look at Howard Schultz, the former CEO of Starbuck's, and how he handled the issue of open-carry in Starbuck's in locales where it was legal. He was under a lot of pressure to ban it. What he did was make an announcement that local Starbuck's will follow local law. The activists were taken aback and the problem dried up and went away. Business leadership has to know that if you take a public position on an issue, no matter which side you come down on, you take the risk of alienating a significant percentage of your customer base. But the weird thing is that in most cases you don't have to take a position. So why do they do it? One of the reasons is virtue signalling, which is defined as: "the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue." I think Jack Dorsey of Twitter and Square is a prime example of that. He virtue signals all the time, even on issues he is totally unfamiliar with. Totally clueless. I have lots of choices of where I eat lunch. And I will only eat once where they use a Square terminal. Another reason is what I like to call "stranded on an island." Most of the headquarters of big businesses are located in the "progressive archipelagos." Target in Minneapolis, MN, Dick's in Pittsburg, PA, Twitter and Salesforce in SF. So these guys work at offices that are liberal bastions. Almost everyone they meet is "progressive," their wives' friends are all progressives. They can't avoid them and they start to think that everyone is like that. I include Salesforce because I have made it my mission to cost them some business, no matter how small, because of Marc Benioff's recent banning of the use of their software by sporting arms companies. But everyone isn't like that. I think that is one of the major contributors to the so-called Trump Derangement Syndrome, they thought everyone thought like them. But I have spent and spend a lot of time in the midwest, places most people never heard of like Atchison, KS Grand Island NB, and Bonne Terre, MO. And you know what, they think differently and they are getting fed up with all the crap coming out of the liberal bastions and they ultimately the vote with their dollars. And their votes too for that matter, hence Trump. And I predict he wins again in 2020. I myself would drag myself across barbed wire to cast a vote for him. And for no particular reason other than the fact the it is fun watching the progressives, whom I vehemently despise, be disturbed by him so much. But yet there may be another factor. I went to Business school in the 80's. They used to assign a short story to be read called "Dodkin's Job" by Jack Vance that was written in the mid 50's. Without going into details it illustrates how organizations may be manipulated to a particular end by individuals way down the food chain. I have seen this in person. A CEO works with a personal assistant all day every day. He may come to value the pa's opinion and take action accordingly. Or someone lower in an organization may control the flow of information or the agenda of meetings and so on. Business leaders need to be very careful about issues and how they are brought to their attention and what they do when they are. Think, think, think! So the original question veered off topic, as is often the case with abortion, and I have spent way too much time writing this response. But I have thought this same topic would be an cogent article to submit to a Business school journal. My own view on the topic of abortion is guided by Luke 1:39-45, that recounts when Mary Visits Elizabeth. And in particular Luke 1:41 "And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." There's a life in there, conceived by God, for a reason. As I understand it, to kill it for convenience is murder. By the way, it was informative to watch the mainstream media fill empty heads with fake news. My wife, who is not at all political, exclaimed to me that "they don't even allow abortion to save the life of the mother!" I had to go look up and document each law, or proposed law, and collect the references and send them to her. They all allow an abortion at any time for the physical health of the mother. All of them! Although you may have to go to the Alabama legislatures website and pull down the text of the passed law to find that out.
__________________
Last edited by rp55; 06-05-2019 at 11:28 AM..
|
|
#20
06-07-2019, 9:05 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post "What happens to an aborted baby? Instant heaven (e.g. 2 Sam. 12:23)." ---------------------------------- So, I looked up your Bible reference 2 Sam. 12:23 and this is what I found: KJV But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. Instant heaven? I do not see that in that passgae. Wrong reference? Bill, still waiting for a reply on your Bible reference.
|
|
#21
06-08-2019, 6:01 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther
|
|
#22
06-08-2019, 10:13 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Frustrating. "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." Originally Posted by billvau View Post "What happens to an aborted baby? Instant heaven (e.g. 2 Sam. 12:23)." Well, it certainly does not say the dead baby instantly goes to heaven. God had just killed his son (over a 7 day period). He learned the baby was now dead from his servants and that was David's reply to the servants. So, I take it as David was going to go to his dead son, but despite his prayers to God to save the child he knew his son would not come back alive to him. So, Bill, "instant heaven"? How are you interpreting that from that passage?
|
|
#23
06-08-2019, 10:17 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther
|
|
#24
06-08-2019, 4:18 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
We know David was thinking this, how? Never mind on that. You used a biblical passage to support your statement: Originally Posted by billvau "What happens to an aborted baby? Instant heaven (e.g. 2 Sam. 12:23)." That passage does not say anything close to "instant heaven" and also David's son was not an aborted baby either. I have been down this road with you in the past and it was basically the same thing. You make a point and give a Bible passage to support your view and when the passage is read it says something different. Now, here we are again. Here is a tip for you: In the future, if you are going to support your viewpoint with a Bible passage then please read that passage from the other persons "eyes" and see if it makes sense from that view. Then, we wouldn't have to go back and forth and end up (again) with discussions like this.
|
|
#25
06-08-2019, 4:39 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
2 Sa12:19 But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” And they said, “He is dead.” 20 So David arose from the ground, washed, anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he came into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he came to his own house, and when he requested, they set food before him and he ate. 21 Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” 22 He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ 23 “But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” What do you see? His immediate response was to change direction from fasting, praying, etc., and worship. His servants couldn't understand the immediate change. He explained that he was petitioning God to change His mind. But, as soon as He knew God had taken the child's life, he not only knew petitioning would no longer be of value, but knew that he would see his child in heaven in the future. This is the easiest, most obvious, example to see the death of a child is instant heaven. So, I used it as an example. Proving the the theology behind it isn't as easy and I honestly don't have the time. Sorry. So, I used this as an example of the theology. Didn't mean to leave you thinking it was a biblical proof. Sorry.
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther
|
|
#27
06-09-2019, 8:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Now reading the content of the rest of the chapter before and after this vs gives context to why God stated this. The earth and its people became corrupted and Angels/Demons had interbred with women creating a super race (Nephilim) giants. The world was corrupted fully at that time save for Noah and his sons and their wives. Fast forward 120 years or so. After Noah had completed the Arch, God changes the environment at this time and causes rain to fall and water to come from the deep cleansing all birds, mammals, and people from the earth other than Noah and his family. Now almost all civilizations have a flood story from American Indians, Chinese, India, Africa. Only one is this clear as to why the flood took place and that is the Jewish recounting of the flood and its relationship to God.
|
|
#28
06-15-2019, 9:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
It's spiritual warfare and Satan has a stronghold on them.
|
|
#29
06-16-2019, 6:16 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
"Fear is the path to the dark side, fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Yoda
|
|
#30
06-16-2019, 7:52 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
How do you know this is true? Take a look around you, fools despising wisdom from God and His instructions in the scripture are abundantly doing this all over the earth/world. The results speak VERY loudly.
Psalm 1
|
|
#31
06-16-2019, 8:05 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Up next in this rationalization process will be getting rid of those costly elderly folks, they're a huge drain on society's resources as they age and are terribly inconvenient to take care of when they start to have medical issues.
__________________
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness; I love only that which they defend. victus exaro somniculosus, somnus exaro ieiunium
|
|
#32
06-16-2019, 8:11 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have learned quite a bit from this thread. Thank you to all that contributed.
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
 |
 |
 |
Linear Mode
