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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 08-28-2019, 3:41 PM
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Default CCW in school Zones

What is the current laws regarding carry with a CCW in school zones, or within 1000' of a school. Are CCW holders exempt, or do they need to lock up their guns when they drive by a school on the road? What about picking up kids at a school?
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Old 08-28-2019, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newglockster View Post
What is the current laws regarding carry with a CCW in school zones, or within 1000' of a school. Are CCW holders exempt, or do they need to lock up their guns when they drive by a school on the road? What about picking up kids at a school?
CCW holders are exempt from the 1000' zone. I have to look up the other half of the question. You cannot carry on a campus at all, but I don't know if that applies to loading zones that are on campus.
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Old 08-28-2019, 3:46 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
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The only thing that has changed is the exemption for on school grounds/property was removed. You can not have a loaded unsecured firearm either on your person or in your vehicle when on school grounds/property. Must be unloaded and locked up.

Exemption for school zone is still in place.
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Old 08-30-2019, 5:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newglockster View Post
What is the current laws regarding carry with a CCW in school zones, or within 1000' of a school. Are CCW holders exempt, or do they need to lock up their guns when they drive by a school on the road? What about picking up kids at a school?
Exempt from the 1000' zone, but not exempt if on property (includes parking lot). [PC 626.9(c)(5)]

If you go on property, then handgun needs to be unloaded & in a locked container inisde a vehicle [PC 626.9(c)(2)] and ammunition needs to be in a locked container inside a vehicle [PC 30310(b)(10)].




Penal Code 626.9
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Penal Code 30310
(a) Unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, the superintendent’s designee, or equivalent school authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds, except sworn law enforcement officers acting within the scope of their duties.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(10)(A) A person carrying ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds that is in a motor vehicle at all times and is within a locked container or within the locked trunk of the vehicle.
(B) For purposes of this paragraph, the term “locked container” has the same meaning as set forth in Section 16850.
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Old 08-30-2019, 6:12 AM
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Pick up your kid at the sidewalk rather than the "drive-thru" part of the parking lot and you won't need to unload and lock up
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Old 08-30-2019, 7:50 AM
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I asked my IA this question specifically (as my wife is a Principal so I’m on school property a lot), and was told you are fine as long as you do not exit the vehicle.

He went on to explain that in my vehicle in the school parking lot, my vehicle is on school property, but I am on my personal property (inside the vehicle).

I’m not arguing that conforms with the law as written, but that is what I was told. On the books, it is illegal as well to carry in a public park here, but our Sheriff’s Dept actually issued a written statement saying that law will not be enforced and that they are working to change it.

The legal waters in Cali are always muddy, even when it would be easy to make them clear. Don’t think that’s an accident.


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Old 08-30-2019, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
I asked my IA this question specifically (as my wife is a Principal so I’m on school property a lot), and was told you are fine as long as you do not exit the vehicle.

He went on to explain that in my vehicle in the school parking lot, my vehicle is on school property, but I am on my personal property (inside the vehicle).

I’m not arguing that conforms with the law as written, but that is what I was told.
You need to get that in writing from the Chief/Sheriff, directly.

The statute is quoted, above. As a minimum, it requires your ammunition to be locked up under PC 30310.

But, the Greater Dumb here is the idea that the gun is on your property (car) and not on school property. Try applying that to concealed carry on the parking lot of your post office. (See: Bonidy v. USPS)

If that’s a reasonable view, then, as we drive our vehicles down city streets, we aren’t on public highways or in public spaces; we are “on” our private property...mount the keg in the backseat....
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
On the books, it is illegal as well to carry in a public park here, but our Sheriff’s Dept actually issued a written statement saying that law will not be enforced and that they are working to change it.
That’s a completely different issue, as the local ordinance seems to constrain the Sheriff’s authority under state law.[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-30-2019, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
You need to get that in writing from the Chief/Sheriff, directly.

The statute is quoted, above. As a minimum, it requires your ammunition to be locked up under PC 30310.
Agreed; relying on 'word of mouth' is likely to be problematic in a legal discussion. Further, 'matters of interpretation' might change with a new office-holder.

Just from the legal jeopardy point of view, it's best to try to follow the law - as written, or as modified by a court decision.

ETA - just added a bit to the sticky on where it's legal to carry -
Quote:
CCW holders and their listed handguns have always been exempt from the 1000 foot rule, and remain exempt.

Last edited by Librarian; 08-30-2019 at 9:37 AM..
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Old 08-30-2019, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Agreed; relying on 'word of mouth' is likely to be problematic in a legal discussion. Further, 'matters of interpretation' might change with a new office-holder.
"No, your Honor. No one in the department told the defendant that, because that would be illegal."

Simply Googling "SB 707 firearms" provides a great deal of information on the issue, non of which comports with this IA's purported view of the statute.

It's also important to realize that, should an individual apply this interpretation in a jurisdiction not controlled by this particular IA, they may have a rude encounter with local law enforcement who have a differing view of the statute. That's a felony-level error.
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Old 08-30-2019, 8:40 PM
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Has anyone heard of a case where a CCW holder was busted on school grounds for carrying here in California?
Any “hey do you want to see my gun?” or similar stories need not report.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 44fred View Post
Has anyone heard of a case where a CCW holder was busted on school grounds for carrying here in California?
Any “hey do you want to see my gun?” or similar stories need not report.
Seems to me a teacher had a problem a few years ago; can't find the thread just now.

Last edited by Librarian; 08-30-2019 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:23 PM
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The counselor who was arrested goes to pretrial hearing next month on a misdemeanor.

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Ca...ta_Rene_Scott/

She states that she faced domestic violence threats. There is an exemption in California law for those with valid restraining orders who believe that they are in peril for domestic violence. Can’t find if she had the restraining order in place or not.

https://www.sbsun.com/2017/10/19/san...-ex-boyfriend/

But her attorney should spend a lot of time talking about the Caetano decision.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:00 AM
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"The weapon was locked in her car, parked in the on-campus parking lot...".

Probably loaded and stuffed under the seat....

No Restraining Order
Quote:
She was also in the process of obtaining a restraining order and placed a firearm in her car for protection.
Even if she had an RO, it wouldn't do her any good until trial. CA PC 25600(b)
Quote:
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 25400, the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that the defendant was in grave danger.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-31-2019 at 11:10 AM..
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