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  #1  
Old 08-09-2019, 8:56 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Last edited by sfe187; 09-01-2019 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 08-09-2019, 9:17 PM
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You need to ask your lawyer. I wouldn't worry about a "welfare" check unless you have legitimate health problems. But basically there is no point based on the above scenario that you lose your 4th amendment rights.

Based on opsec, I'll bet nobody will give you more specific advice than that.
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Old 08-09-2019, 9:37 PM
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I'll answer based on past experience

Had an argument with GF (now wife) Went home and took Nyquil to get some sleep and forgot to plug phone in, battery died so calls went straight to VM. She lived in SF and I lived in Novato. She couldn't drive and had no way of getting up to where I was so she called Novato PD because she was worried something happened to me. It was very unusual for me to not check in or pick up the phone.

Police said they banged on my door for an hour and after getting no response came through my kitchen window. Nyquil makes me almost comatose for 12 hours.

They shook me awake and wanted to know who I was and wanted to see ID. Once they confirmed I was me, and I could bust through the Nyquil-induced haze of WTF is going on???? they told me she had called for a welfare check because she thought I was suicidal. Yeah, she exaggerated considerably.

While they were there she showed up. She had gotten a taxi to bring her to my place. No charges, no problems, just doing what she had asked them to do. I made her promise never to do that again.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:48 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pandanin View Post
Yeah, she exaggerated considerably.
This ^^^^ is what scares me the most.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Icypu View Post
You need to ask your lawyer. I wouldn't worry about a "welfare" check unless you have legitimate health problems. But basically there is no point based on the above scenario that you lose your 4th amendment rights.

Based on opsec, I'll bet nobody will give you more specific advice than that.
Thanks for chiming in. These days people call for and use "welfare checks" all the time just to get LE to respond.
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Old 08-10-2019, 7:44 AM
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There needs to be a lot more circumstances to make the moon and the star's line up to allow them to force entry, then "I haven't been able to contact him".

I've probably done a thousand (or more) welfare checks over the years, and only once did I force entry into a home. The circumstances that caused us to force entry were very specific, and verified prior to us making entry, and that is as far as I'm going to go with that.

Even if they make entry they are looking for you not searching your home. Of course if you were to have a mountain of cocaine sitting on the coffee table all bet's are off, because at that point they would secure your home and get a search warrant.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:46 AM
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When I was on patrol, I did a welfare check of the location and found a dead body in a car in the garage. The call was from the supervisor of the deceased person stating that the person did not show up for work for three days.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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If patrol officers respond to a residence and make a welfare check, and upon approach smell a horrible smell and observe copious flies on the inside of the window trying to get out...we are making an entry...
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Old 08-10-2019, 1:01 PM
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Here's an idea ; Call your local PD /Sheriff and talk to their dispatcher. Tell them if someone named "ex-GF" calls asking for a a welfare check on "OP" to ignore her because she's BSC.
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Old 08-10-2019, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
And what stage determines an LEO to make entry of a home base on “welfare check”?

Example.
You break off with GF, you ex-communicate her but she is still trying to find you or just to make trouble, she calls cops to do welfare check saying she is worried she hasn’t heard from you, but you turned off the phone and left town to get away, cops knock on door with no answer, can they make entry?
There is going to need to be more factors than just "she hasn't heard from you" before I would expect any LE to force entry. For example things like threats of suicide, obvious signs of someone being home, TV on but no answer at the door, mailed piled up while your vehicle is still there, etc. None of those in and of themselves would cause me to expect a forced entry. They are just a few examples of things that would be considered in the totality of the circumstances.
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Old 08-10-2019, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
If patrol officers respond to a residence and make a welfare check, and upon approach smell a horrible smell and observe copious flies on the inside of the window trying to get out...we are making an entry...
Nope, Fire goes first, but I'll be standing by with a nose full of Vick's.
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Old 08-10-2019, 3:13 PM
NorCalBusa NorCalBusa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandanin View Post
I'll answer based on past experience

Had an argument with GF (now wife) Went home and took Nyquil to get some sleep and forgot to plug phone in, battery died so calls went straight to VM. She lived in SF and I lived in Novato. She couldn't drive and had no way of getting up to where I was so she called Novato PD because she was worried something happened to me. It was very unusual for me to not check in or pick up the phone.

Police said they banged on my door for an hour and after getting no response came through my kitchen window. Nyquil makes me almost comatose for 12 hours.

They shook me awake and wanted to know who I was and wanted to see ID. Once they confirmed I was me, and I could bust through the Nyquil-induced haze of WTF is going on???? they told me she had called for a welfare check because she thought I was suicidal. Yeah, she exaggerated considerably.

While they were there she showed up. She had gotten a taxi to bring her to my place. No charges, no problems, just doing what she had asked them to do. I made her promise never to do that again.
Except that little event is now in your history record at the PD. May never again come up, but if anything remotely related does- they'll jump and point to this event.
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Old 08-10-2019, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Nope, Fire goes first, but I'll be standing by with a nose full of Vick's.
Noxzema was my preferred nose ointment.
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Old 08-10-2019, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
*I originally posted at How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me forum but I think its better suited to ask a retire or current LEO. Mods please delete the other thread in error.
***************************


And what stage determines an LEO to make entry of a home base on “welfare check”?

Example.
You break off with GF, you ex-communicate her but she is still trying to find you or just to make trouble, she calls cops to do welfare check saying she is worried she hasn’t heard from you, but you turned off the phone and left town to get away, cops knock on door with no answer, can they make entry?
Another example that relates to yours. Someone calls for "welfare check", expressing concern because resident hasn't answered phone for several days.

Person is actually home, but chose to not answer phone, and suspects cops at door, are another example of continued harassment by an Ex. Even calls lawyer for advice whether to respond to perceived "intrusion".

And chose not to answer door or respond in any way.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal.../1142/2332048/
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Old 08-10-2019, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Nope, Fire goes first, but I'll be standing by with a nose full of Vick's.
Lucky! Our FD wants to make sure its safe first...send in the boot!
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Old 08-10-2019, 6:46 PM
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Why oh why do you guys let Crazy women know where you live.

First mistake.

Get a room, go to her place, your car or even a dumpster, but do not bring crazy home.
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Old 08-10-2019, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
These days people call for and use "welfare checks" all the time just to get LE to respond.
"all the time"?
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2019, 8:17 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Appreciate all the perspectives.
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Old 08-10-2019, 8:22 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Great read. Thank you. I wonder if both of their cars were not on the driveway and no neighbor to speak to, would the court still think entry under emergency aide is reasonable.
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Old 08-10-2019, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
Great read. Thank you. I wonder if both of their cars were not on the driveway and no neighbor to speak to, would the court still think entry under emergency aide is reasonable.
From my non LE, but well read citizen perspective of 4th amendment concerns. There is simply no single answer to your question. Everything depends on "specific circumstances of a given incident".

I respect, but do not envy those that must juggle all the circumstances in each given scenario to reach the proper legal conclusion.
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Old 08-12-2019, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
From my non LE, but well read citizen perspective of 4th amendment concerns. There is simply no single answer to your question. Everything depends on "specific circumstances of a given incident".

I respect, but do not envy those that must juggle all the circumstances in each given scenario to reach the proper legal conclusion.
This here. I have been on numerous welfare check radio calls, two where we made the call to force entry.
We found an elderly person down in each of those two, been there for a few days. Paramedics came and immediately examined and started IV's due to dehydration and transported the injured to the hospital.
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