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  #1  
Old 07-20-2022, 11:21 AM
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Default know anything about this Hyundai mini pc?

https://www.target.com/p/hyundai-min...46#lnk=sametab

The only thing I can see that would be a problem is lack of main memory. It says something about being able to expand it, but no details.

It has an expandable SATA slot, so I'm covered wrt disk space.
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2022, 11:50 AM
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RAM is not upgradable per Amazon answered questions. Storage can be expanded.
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Old 07-20-2022, 12:48 PM
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That sucks. Is that going to limit what applications I can run? Will they just go slower, or will some not run at all?
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2022, 2:02 PM
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Get a NUC instead? i3 or i5 in a smaller footprint.

32-64GB RAM should be standard now. It’s a Celeron CPU anyway, so max platform RAM would only be ~ 6GB (8GB - 1.5GB for video RAM), even if it had a second slot. Programs need more RAM, especially if doing video editing or virtualization of anything more than a couple small Linux VMs.

Edit: it also claims to support 2x 4K monitors, but the second connection is an analog VGA connector, which won’t support anything above 2,048 x 1,536 @85Hz.

Pretty meager specs; it’s a thin-client for RDP / Web apps, not really a desktop.

.

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 07-20-2022 at 7:43 PM..
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Old 07-20-2022, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
https://www.target.com/p/hyundai-min...46#lnk=sametab

The only thing I can see that would be a problem is lack of main memory. It says something about being able to expand it, but no details.

It has an expandable SATA slot, so I'm covered wrt disk space.
What do you want it to do? It’s probably fine for watching YouTube.

Those M.2 drives are hard to find. At work we have a few small NUC type devices that use the old M.2 so I speak from experience. The NVMe drives are plentiful but aren’t the same thing. The slot looks the same but isn’t.
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2022, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
What do you want it to do? It’s probably fine for watching YouTube.

Those M.2 drives are hard to find. At work we have a few small NUC type devices that use the old M.2 so I speak from experience. The NVMe drives are plentiful but aren’t the same thing. The slot looks the same but isn’t.
Good catch…an explanation for OP:

NVMe is the electrical spec. M.2 is the physical spec. M.2 is what most NVMe drives are. U.2 being the others, but that’s NVMe in a 2.5” form factor. There are some minor variations on the stick’s keying due to VRM requirements and revision (B, M and B+M). You just need to know which your board wants. Most PCs use the 22mm wide form factor.

There are M.2 drives that still utilize a SATA interface, but those have all been deprecated to being called SATA NGFF, and if you go looking for a SATA M.2 drive, it should now be referenced by the new nomenclature. I thought only Intel used this confusing drive spec, but this PC seems to have picked it up as well. The 256GB max (not 2TB) M.2 capacity is the giveaway. Kingston makes a bunch of NGFF drives for these devices.

There’s also mSATA, which is a flash SSD stick still using a SATA interface via SATA / PCMCIA pin-outs. Those have a different electrical and physical form factor.
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Old 07-21-2022, 6:27 AM
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There's a SATA SSD on sale too that I figured I could use.
https://www.target.com/p/hyundai-240...s/-/A-78493903

I want to run Tradestation stock charting software on it with 2 monitors. It's also got to use Windoze, so I don't think 4gb is going to cut it. I won't be using any of it's advanced features though.

I found something called COOFUN that comes with 16 gigs of memory for a little over $400.
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Old 07-21-2022, 8:10 AM
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You could always run the software on an Azure or Amazon VM and have the mini PC just running the RDP / Display. Although that VGA connector is a bummer. You could just get away with a microSD card for booting it (possibly).

I still think the refurb 2014 Mac Minis are the best deal for running Windows on a SFF PC. Usually $399 on Amazon*, for i7 / 16 GB, 256 SSD. Just make sure to stay away from any of them that have an HDD.

* currently $303: may not be a working link after this posts.
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Old 07-21-2022, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
Good catch…an explanation for OP:

NVMe is the electrical spec. M.2 is the physical spec. M.2 is what most NVMe drives are. U.2 being the others, but that’s NVMe in a 2.5” form factor. There are some minor variations on the stick’s keying due to VRM requirements and revision (B, M and B+M). You just need to know which your board wants. Most PCs use the 22mm wide form factor.

There are M.2 drives that still utilize a SATA interface, but those have all been deprecated to being called SATA NGFF, and if you go looking for a SATA M.2 drive, it should now be referenced by the new nomenclature. I thought only Intel used this confusing drive spec, but this PC seems to have picked it up as well. The 256GB max (not 2TB) M.2 capacity is the giveaway. Kingston makes a bunch of NGFF drives for these devices.

There’s also mSATA, which is a flash SSD stick still using a SATA interface via SATA / PCMCIA pin-outs. Those have a different electrical and physical form factor.
Or you could just look at the traces on the top of the drive next to the indexing slot and see that one has 4 while the other has 5.
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2022, 9:37 PM
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Nah, I don't want any refurb anything. I've had only bad luck with them.

There are a number of COOFUN versions. This one sounds best to me:
https://www.amazon.com/UM350-Compute.../dp/B08NPCPRF1

16 gig RAM, 512 Gig SSD, 1 display port, 1 HDMI. It also has a usb-c port. I saw a gadget that let you daisy-chain monitors on a usb-c.

There's also an HP ProDesk 600 G6.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/mdp/hp...ll-form-factor

It's almost $800 but that's a sale price 50% off the original $1600. It has 2 display ports and an HDMI port.

The Hyundai is probably not going to work for me.

The good news I found is that for the Tradstation application I want to use, it doesn't use a lot of memory. 8 gig is probably more than enough. But it sucks up the cpu power. Which is fine. If it runs a little slow that's okay.
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2022, 11:09 PM
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Well, you do get more cores, but the Ryzen 3550H is only about as fast per core as the i7 in the Mac Mini. I doubt on a generic SFF PC that they have as many memory channels as the Mac, so it probably goes at the same speed, or less, overall.

I have 6 of the refurb Minis that I linked to. Not a single problem so far in over a year. The only thing I dislike is the drive they come with is OK for read performance, but has no SLC cache, so write performance is not linear and can sometimes be a pain.

I’ve replaced them all (the 250G SATA disks) with NVMe 2TB upgrades from OWC. They are fast as hell, now, albeit not as cost effective as at first. They now come close to the couple of 2018 hexacore Minis I have. I still need x86 VM compatibility, so I too will be looking for another platform once these Apple boxes give up.

The other benefit of the Mini is thunderbolt. I have a mesh of thunderbolt connections in a shared TB-bridge ring configuration, so they all are networked at 20Gb/s, which really shines if you have to do large memory-footprint distributed work. I’m still deciding if I want to spend coin to get TB->dual 10Gb adapters and do it over a Cisco Nexus switch. The 2018s already have 10Gb onboard. But, my needs are pretty severe and requiring high speed transfers of large blocks of data.

However, I still have my 2007 C2D Mini running Linux as well (it’s my log / Nagios server), so I’m OK with the occasional MB swap to keep them on life support.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2022, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
I still think the refurb 2014 Mac Minis are the best deal for running Windows on a SFF PC. Usually $399 on Amazon*, for i7 / 16 GB, 256 SSD. Just make sure to stay away from any of them that have an HDD.

* currently $303: may not be a working link after this posts.
One of the perks of working for a school district, I have the benefit of being able to pick up surplused equipment for pennies on the dollar when they go to auction. Right now our warehouse has a whole cart full of newer surplus Mac Minis which will probably sell for less than $200 each. One of my work computers is a 2020 MacBook Pro which will be rotated out in 2 more years for a new one, and I'll be able to buy it for $300. I'm not really a fan of MacOS, but the hardware is top tier.
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Old 07-24-2022, 6:19 AM
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One of the perks of working for a school district, I have the benefit of being able to pick up surplused equipment for pennies on the dollar when they go to auction. Right now our warehouse has a whole cart full of newer surplus Mac Minis which will probably sell for less than $200 each. One of my work computers is a 2020 MacBook Pro which will be rotated out in 2 more years for a new one, and I'll be able to buy it for $300. I'm not really a fan of MacOS, but the hardware is top tier.
At my work we just take stuff home when it’s decommed. I have 4 Boxx CAD machines doing various machines at the house. I also give them away to guys at work for their kids and such. Basically anything older than an i9 10th gen has to go.

We actually do run a few Macs too for MDM but they are very VERY unreliable POSs.
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2022, 8:14 AM
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At my work we just take stuff home when it’s decommed. I have 4 Boxx CAD machines doing various machines at the house. I also give them away to guys at work for their kids and such. Basically anything older than an i9 10th gen has to go.

We actually do run a few Macs too for MDM but they are very VERY unreliable POSs.
Mucho disagreo. For the Mini, anyway. Apple laptops have a penchant for self-immolation. Apple never learned that mfrs use aluminum exteriors as positive, passive, heat sinks. Making a laptop too thin without that passive cooling is a death sentence. Yet, Apple just uses it for a shiny exterior. I wish they’d go back to plastic enclosures, personally.

The Mini, and probably the Studio, OTOH, are over-engineered and damn near fault free. The other desktops fall somewhere in the middle.

I ran a cloud of 1000 Minis for three years, where they were under constant load and our failure rate was under 1%, and most of the time was just drive failure (this was before they were all NVMe). Those little buggers are tough and quite near the upper limit of practical compute density.
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Old 07-24-2022, 2:24 PM
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Well then we got a few of your 1% fail sample size. They are the black Mac minis. They belong to our mobiles guy so I don’t mess with them but I do know they are always down or having some kind of issues. You couldn’t pay me to take one unless it was for target practice.
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Old 07-24-2022, 5:03 PM
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Well then we got a few of your 1% fail sample size. They are the black Mac minis. They belong to our mobiles guy so I don’t mess with them but I do know they are always down or having some kind of issues. You couldn’t pay me to take one unless it was for target practice.
I always get the feeling that your infrastructure is supporting materials processing or fabrication. Any chance environmental conditions account for some of the wear and tear?

Our cloud was only DC-centric, not on a production floor or anywhere except in a climate controlled environment. 104 minis per 42u plus switches. 2012 quad-cores and 2014s. I have two 2018 hexacores, and they haven’t faulted yet, but they are only less than a year old, each. Most ran ESXi in a V-Sphere setting, with some OpenStack on Centos and some docker via RedHat. We virtualized OSX, because you had to run OSX VMs only on Apple hardware.

What failures / faults are you seeing? I’m curious what components are breaking.
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Old 07-25-2022, 5:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
I always get the feeling that your infrastructure is supporting materials processing or fabrication. Any chance environmental conditions account for some of the wear and tear?

Our cloud was only DC-centric, not on a production floor or anywhere except in a climate controlled environment. 104 minis per 42u plus switches. 2012 quad-cores and 2014s. I have two 2018 hexacores, and they haven’t faulted yet, but they are only less than a year old, each. Most ran ESXi in a V-Sphere setting, with some OpenStack on Centos and some docker via RedHat. We virtualized OSX, because you had to run OSX VMs only on Apple hardware.

What failures / faults are you seeing? I’m curious what components are breaking.
We are fab but metal fab (building mechanical) so no chemicals other than argon. The Macs stay in a server room. They crash constantly, most of the time fail OS upgrades, and weirdly overheat and lock up / shut off (they are near an AC split system that cools the room. The room has 4 racks with servers and network gear).

Back in the day I had one of the 2nd or 3rd gen Mac mini’s on my desk to give it a fair shot as my daily driver but it was just slow and didn’t work how I had hoped. That was at a graphics company where we had lots of Mac Pros and such. While the hardware engineering was nice with everything being modular for the Mac stuff, in reality they just didn’t perform that well.
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Old 07-25-2022, 8:47 AM
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Have a look into DFU restoring the bridgeOS image in the T2 processor.

It’s quite frankly the most janky aspect of that platform, and when problems arise, many of them can be traced back to problems in the Secure Enclave. Realize that doing the restore may wipe passwords and potentially volume encryption keys, so be prepared to do a full re-install and restore if necessary.

https://help.apple.com/configurator/...#/apdebea5be51
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Old 08-01-2022, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancyPants View Post
One of the perks of working for a school district, I have the benefit of being able to pick up surplused equipment for pennies on the dollar when they go to auction. Right now our warehouse has a whole cart full of newer surplus Mac Minis which will probably sell for less than $200 each. One of my work computers is a 2020 MacBook Pro which will be rotated out in 2 more years for a new one, and I'll be able to buy it for $300. I'm not really a fan of MacOS, but the hardware is top tier.
I’ve shopped the Alpine District surplus a few times. Got an as new VHS to DVD copier for $50. Was $600 many years ago when it was new.
I had old gun related VHS tapes from the 80s I wanted to transfer
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:49 AM
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If you can use m.2 drives you can set the page file to it, i am still modern gaming with 8 gigs of ram. The link is dead but unfortunately i think you probably cant have 2 m.2 drives in it.
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Old 09-09-2022, 11:16 PM
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Robotron2k84

You could use a cheaper client if its just for rdp. Like a chromecast.
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Old 09-25-2022, 2:33 PM
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So are mini PCs worth using?...

In non-tech layman's speak.

Like the one in post #10

Just for basic internet use and minor spreadsheet & word doc use... for home use.
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Old 09-25-2022, 4:26 PM
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I used an Intel NUC as a music server and the recorder for my 4 camera security system. Did both at the same time just fine.
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Old 09-26-2022, 7:15 AM
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So are mini PCs worth using?...

In non-tech layman's speak.

Like the one in post #10

Just for basic internet use and minor spreadsheet & word doc use... for home use.
Yup they are fine for basic stuff. I have ~100 NUCs in my fab facilities running some proprietary stuff for fabrication. For office folks we give pretty much everyone the tiny Dells (Optiplex 3000/7000). You can spec those from low end to high end and everywhere in between. I mounted a handfull of those to the back of touchscreens out in one of the shops for a different fab thing we are testing out. They are just normal computers, only smaller. The only "downside" I guess is having to buy the smaller parts rather than normal parts but they are pretty easy to find nowdays. We buy these cheap little weak MINIX things for $300 on up to $1500 Dells. Like anything depending on what you pay will determine your performance, for the most part.
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Old 09-26-2022, 12:42 PM
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Yup they are fine for basic stuff. I have ~100 NUCs in my fab facilities running some proprietary stuff for fabrication. For office folks we give pretty much everyone the tiny Dells (Optiplex 3000/7000). You can spec those from low end to high end and everywhere in between. I mounted a handfull of those to the back of touchscreens out in one of the shops for a different fab thing we are testing out. They are just normal computers, only smaller. The only "downside" I guess is having to buy the smaller parts rather than normal parts but they are pretty easy to find nowdays. We buy these cheap little weak MINIX things for $300 on up to $1500 Dells. Like anything depending on what you pay will determine your performance, for the most part.
thanks for the reply... so something like the one posted earlier in the thread would be fine? https://www.amazon.com/UM350-Compute.../dp/B08NPCPRF1 - or do you have other recommendation?...

Also, do they accept speakers?... I see a headphone jack, so I guess it has a sound card - but can speakers be plugged into that? Or bluetooth?

Yeah, I'm 'puter illiterate
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Old 09-26-2022, 6:40 PM
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thanks for the reply... so something like the one posted earlier in the thread would be fine? https://www.amazon.com/UM350-Compute.../dp/B08NPCPRF1 - or do you have other recommendation?...

Also, do they accept speakers?... I see a headphone jack, so I guess it has a sound card - but can speakers be plugged into that? Or bluetooth?

Yeah, I'm 'puter illiterate
Yup it’s good for browsing, office type tasks, etc. It has a 3.5mm audio output jack which is standard. If you want to do any kind of audio editing or anything like that you could plug in a Scarlet or something similar. Relating to car models that’s about a nicer Honda Civic or standard Camry. Or maybe like a MIM Stratocaster
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Old 09-26-2022, 7:23 PM
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^^^ thanks
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