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Old 07-16-2022, 12:26 PM
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Exclamation Is it legal to own an upper with a 10-12" barrel?

I just got back from the range. A dude had a Pelican case with an AR-15 in it. He had 2 other uppers in the case that were interchangeable with the lower. One of the uppers was way short. I would estimate the barrel to be 10-12" in length. He never shot it, but I thought the minimum barrel length was 16".

Could he have gotten a free ride (arrested) for possessing it, even though he never mounted it?

Sorry, I couldn't snap a picture. The upper was seriously short.

It looked something like this:

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Last edited by Sir Toast; 07-16-2022 at 12:29 PM..
  #2  
Old 07-16-2022, 12:45 PM
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If he has a pistol upper with only a rifle lower could have a problem. Constructive possession. I am taking both rifle and pistol ars to Texas with me monday. All are separated.

Last edited by edgerly779; 07-16-2022 at 4:18 PM..
  #3  
Old 07-16-2022, 12:51 PM
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Less than 16" barrel upper with only a rifle lower nearby is a Fed "SBR constructive possession" violation.
CA does not have constructive possession, but other AW / SBR charges may be filed.
If he also has a pistol lower with it then it is legal, or it's legal if it is registered as an SBR.
He could also be an LEO or otherwise Exempt.
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Old 07-16-2022, 1:14 PM
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There is no law against simply owning, or possessing, an Upper Receiver with a 10-12" barrel.

There is also no law against owning T-Shirts, Gasoline, and Glass Bottles. But when you make a Molotov Cocktail, then it's a crime.

Same thing here.

If the gent at the range had the SBR upper, along with a rifle lower, and he had no source of exemption from California's SBR statute, then he would have been a pretty good candidate for a trip to jail, even if the upper was never mounted to the lower.

California does not have "Constructive Possession" language in the Assault Weapon statute, bit it does have "Constructive Possession" language in the SBR statute. Here's where the gent would get into trouble (quoted from Penal Code section 17170, with the pertinent part in bold font):

"As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person."
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Last edited by RickD427; 07-16-2022 at 7:28 PM..
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Old 07-16-2022, 4:55 PM
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Legal, I own one. It had to be part of the registered AW due to the issues with the AR pistols, but the upper is not registered by itself. It's just a non-serialized part.

But, I would not even consider having it around rifle lowers or taking it out on its own. The question is not so much the legality, but what an average LEO would know about it and whether I'd get hassled regardless of the legality. Just not my type of risk management with something that is essentially either a novelty (AR pistol), or a big no-no if you're messing with illegal SBR configurations, particularly in CA.
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Old 07-16-2022, 5:34 PM
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Old 07-17-2022, 5:46 AM
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Yes it is legal to own. You can put a 10" upper on an AR pistol lower or a registered SBR lower.
  #8  
Old 07-17-2022, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
Less than 16" barrel upper with only a rifle lower nearby is a Fed "SBR constructive possession" violation.
CA does not have constructive possession, but other AW / SBR charges may be filed.
If he also has a pistol lower with it then it is legal, or it's legal if it is registered as an SBR.
He could also be an LEO or otherwise Exempt.
Or if he doesn’t own any lower at all.
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Old 07-17-2022, 9:17 AM
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You're all being played. OP knows the answer before they posted the thread. He just wants to be fed with a silver spoon and toy with you.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1807202

This was the info from the other thread:

"California law underPenal Code 30515 says the following is an assault weapon:
A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
California regulations under California Code of Regulations, Title 11, section 5471, subdivision (x) says:
“Overall length of less than 30 inches” with respect to a centerfire rifle means the rifle has been measured in the shortest possible configuration that the weapon will function/fire and the measurement is less than 30 inches. Folding and telescoping stocks shall be collapsed prior to measurement. The approved method for measuring the length of the rifle is to measure the firearm from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device, if so equipped, to that part of the stock that is furthest from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device. (Prior to taking a measurement the owner must also check any muzzle devices for how they are attached to the barrel.)
So the at least 30 inches in overall length is only for semiautomatic centerfire rifles, and it needs to be a permanently attached muzzle device if you want to include it in the overall length of at least 30 inches.

Rifles, both centerfire and rimfire, have to be at least 26 inches in overall length and a barrel length of at least 16 inches to not be a short-barreled rifle under Californian law. According to People v. Stinson (1970) 8 Cal.App.3d 497, for the 26-inch overall length limitation, it is measured I n a single straight line, either from the tip of the barrel to the back of the stock or from the tip of the barrel to a point just above the back of the stock."

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  #10  
Old 07-17-2022, 11:35 AM
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If he has a legal SBR lower then he can have whatever size barrel he wants.
  #11  
Old 07-17-2022, 11:44 AM
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unsure of all the circumstances it is undeterminable but i do not think it is prudent to carry around a complete rifle and a pistol upper it may cause "confusion"
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