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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 06-25-2021, 8:08 AM
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If rplaw really is an attorney, and from what dribbles out of its keyboard, I'd bet it was Marcia Clark.

Last edited by nedro; 06-25-2021 at 9:21 AM..
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  #42  
Old 06-25-2021, 8:27 AM
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I'd think someone would stand a far greater chance of a traffic stop escalating with an accidental exposure, than they would by calmly stating that they're a CCW holder. Then again that assumes that they don't do something stupid and pull the gun out, or reach for it.

Paying attention to the speed limit, and other traffic signs will also reduce any potential risk of getting stopped in the first place.
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  #43  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:10 AM
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I am a CCW Instructor and always encourage letting LE know.
I also tell them how to do this.

Doing so has helped several from getting cited. I have been stopped and credit doing this as keeping me from being cited.

Keep your hands up on the steering wheel in plain view.
Inform and wait for instructions.

Simple.
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  #44  
Old 06-25-2021, 3:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieppe42 View Post
Driving last night from El Dorado County to Arnold, (Hwy 49 to Hwy 4) Just turned on to Hwy 4 in Angels Camp heading over the Murphys Grade bypass bridge. Saw CHP unit at far end of the bridge, I was going 70. Slowed but knew I was tagged. He started slinging gravel with his tires, so I started to look for a spot to stop before he lit me up.

Windows down, engine off, hazards on, 10-2....He comes up to the drivers-side window, I said "hello, I need to inform you I am a Concealed Permit Holder, and my Firearm is on my right hip, how would you like to proceed" He said "can you raise your shirt and show me?" I did.

I told him I had my reg and proof of insurance in my visor, but DL and CCW proof was in wallet. He adjusted a little bit forward, and said "just do it slowly." He reviewed my docs, and handed everything back, and said "I am not going to write you up for the ticket, just watch your speed, and I want to thank you for carrying, I wish more people did!"

I want to thank the folks here in the Calguns Community, I would not have know how to handle this (how to notify, and docs on visor) without folks sharing here.

CHP Officer looked a little like "Officer Greg" from Taofledermaus channel. Big guy, short blond hair.
I thought I had seen it all.

Why is it that some people with a CCW have this need to report back to the group when they get stopped while CCwing as if it's an activity? FFS, read the OP.

First, he admits to speeding and then goes on to in enough detail in location, quotes and all that so that now everyone knows exactly who it was, when it happened and where. Do any of you guys racing to the Internet to post play by plays think about what you're doing?

For crying out loud people, you're supposed to be the innocuous person, the one not attracting attention and yet here you are giving up the ghost because you want to share. Share what, that you were speeding in violation of the law, got stopped and then ran here to tell everyone everything but the Officer's name which by the way is practically public info now since you went into so much detail about where he was, his appearance and everything else?

What you should have been doing is observing the speed limit so that you didn't get stopped by the CHP in the first place.

Have you stopped speeding? It doesn't happen by accident and there is a reason why you were asked to stop doing that, because they end up scrapping people like you out of cars after the collision or worse, trying to save the people you ran into because you think what you're doing is ok.

Seriously, you don't know the politics of his Watch Commander or anyone else he has contact with but here you are giving it all up and making sure tell everyone that little anecdote about him wishing more people carried guns. Is that crazy or what?

While no doubt you sought to share all this because whew, you got out of the ticket what you really should have thought was, "maybe I should start paying attention to what I'm doing, count my blessings and keep this all as quiet as I can - learned my lesson" and not let me run to the Internet and turn this out for the whole world to see.

Stop being the CCW groupie. You got one, be the grey man, stop speeding and making yourself an object of attention by getting stopped by the police. If you weren't speeding you wouldn't need to come here and thank people for something that should never have taken place.
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  #45  
Old 06-25-2021, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
Unless your IA requires you to inform LEO, I recommend that you don't.

After being pulled over, it's normal for people to move about to get their registration and insurance cards as well as pull out their wallet. LEO knows this and as long as you're making the "correct" movements to accomplish this, they're not going to be too worried about it.

Pull the wallet first, then get the registration/insurance cards. Have your permit ready in case the officer asks you to exit the vehicle. If he does, then inform him and hand over the card. It's up to him at that point on how to proceed.

If he doesn't ask for you to step out, then he didn't need to know. A routine traffic stop shouldn't be escalated into a weapons confrontation. The one who controls that in the beginning, is you.

I have to disagree. There is a huge disconnect between "rights" and "responses." While it is most likely that a LEO is not going to discover that you have a firearm concealed on your person, there is a greater likelihood of it happening than if you have it secured in your trunk. And when that officer sees the gun that you didn't tell him about, things are going to get interesting and possibly painful very quickly.

I've been pulled over four times in my life. One of them saw the officer ask me to step out of the car. That puts the likelihood based on experience at a 1-in-4 chance.

Other than a possibly longer interaction while the officer runs your permit, I don't see a downside to disclosure that trumps the level of likelihood of the officer discovering by accident that I'm armed.
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  #46  
Old 06-25-2021, 4:17 PM
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rplaw

Do you have a CCW permit?

If so...how long have you been carrying?

Ever been stopped by LE while driving? If so...what happened?

Please...share your experience.

You've posted;

"I'll pass on the being killed by the scared cop nightmare scenario".

"Claiming that you could get shot by LEO isn't any worse than being shot by a bad guy. Shot is shot."

"On the other hand, if you believe that telling a cop in a no-gunz mindset metroplex that you have a gun is going to keep you safer than not telling him anything at all, you need to start thinking about your safety and the safety of anyone else on the scene."

Well...sounds to me, your mind is made up. You've already demonized the LE before your car comes to a stop. You've judged the LE as unprofessional & anti-2A even before he or she says a word. You haven't even given them a chance to earn your respect or disdain. That's a shame.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck.

P.S...OP....Thank you for your post!

Last edited by Mr. Beretta; 06-25-2021 at 4:27 PM..
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  #47  
Old 06-25-2021, 9:11 PM
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Your CCW is not tied to your California Drivers license. Before they walk up to the car 90% of the time Registration/Wants and warrants/check for stolen is already done. Once they run the drivers CDL whether you have a CCW is not going to be available. Now if a driver hands over a CCW the officer may contact the IA but it has nothing to do with your CDL

Last edited by mike_in_ca; 06-26-2021 at 5:47 PM.. Reason: sic
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2021, 2:39 PM
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It sucks that we have to jump through these hoops to be able to carry but I would rather follow my IA than not have the permit.

Also I think regardless of the outcome of a stop, carrying legally and doing nothing stupid, I would rather let them know. Their lives are on the line and I have huge respect for them walking up on strangers every day.
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  #49  
Old 06-26-2021, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny1 View Post
It sucks that we have to jump through these hoops to be able to carry but I would rather follow my IA than not have the permit.

Also I think regardless of the outcome of a stop, carrying legally and doing nothing stupid, I would rather let them know. Their lives are on the line and I have huge respect for them walking up on strangers every day.
100% Donny ! Doing stupid things gets people killed, hurt, or just a ticket.
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  #50  
Old 06-27-2021, 11:27 AM
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I was told by a Lt of the OCSD to place your ccw permit on top of your drivers lic along with reg and proof of insurance. He said not to verbalize your ccw, because it can highten the officers state of mind, which already may be hightened in the stop. Let the officer or deputy process this info him/her self, and determine the path they want to go.
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  #51  
Old 06-28-2021, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
Unless your IA requires you to inform LEO, I recommend that you don't.

After being pulled over, it's normal for people to move about to get their registration and insurance cards as well as pull out their wallet. LEO knows this and as long as you're making the "correct" movements to accomplish this, they're not going to be too worried about it.

Pull the wallet first, then get the registration/insurance cards. Have your permit ready in case the officer asks you to exit the vehicle. If he does, then inform him and hand over the card. It's up to him at that point on how to proceed.

If he doesn't ask for you to step out, then he didn't need to know. A routine traffic stop shouldn't be escalated into a weapons confrontation. The one who controls that in the beginning, is you.
This is very stupid advice; you realize that if your moving around to get your registration; driver's licenses information; etc. and the ccw becomes visible on your body your going end up having a police officer point his weapon at you. Your probably going be at gun point till the officer gets a second officer with him. Anything can happen in this situation from you getting shot by the officer either on accident or on purpose. Not worry it.

Your legally carrying so you should just advise the officer of what is occurring that you have a ccw and a permit.

In addition, if some reason he has you get out the vehicle and than fits you ccw on your it's not going go good either. The officer is not going be happy with you.
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  #52  
Old 06-28-2021, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_in_ca View Post
Your CCW is not tied to your California Drivers license. Before they walk up to the car 90% of the time Registration/Wants and warrants/check for stolen is already done. Once they run the drivers CDL whether you have a CCW is not going to be available. Now if a driver hands over a CCW the officer may contact the IA but it has nothing to do with your CDL
Actually it is if they move to a different screen. Was pulled over a few years ago, required to notify, handed my DL and License. Forgot my CCW until they walked back to car. Got it out of my wallet and held it out the window. LEO came and asked, "What's this?" Handed it to him, said "CCW and I was required to notify" He said he already knew and it came up on the computer, no issues, let me off with a warning.

At this point there is a lot of information that has been linked together and tied up through the different computer networks. Far more than the average citizen would be comfortable knowing was happening. Just like they can access APES and see what weapons are registered to you.
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  #53  
Old 06-29-2021, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
Actually it is if they move to a different screen. Was pulled over a few years ago, required to notify, handed my DL and License. Forgot my CCW until they walked back to car. Got it out of my wallet and held it out the window. LEO came and asked, "What's this?" Handed it to him, said "CCW and I was required to notify" He said he already knew and it came up on the computer, no issues, let me off with a warning.

At this point there is a lot of information that has been linked together and tied up through the different computer networks. Far more than the average citizen would be comfortable knowing was happening. Just like they can access APES and see what weapons are registered to you.
Officers have access to the AFS. The network of computers is the CLETS database.

On a traffic stop if the officer starts running your pistol serial numbers through CLETS it will come back with complete history of that firearm. Who has owned it and if it has been tagged on a permit. But every keystroke is monitored once you start accessing information and you better have a reason to justify how and why that information is being requested. I think in 2018 or 2019 ICE got in trouble for misuse of the CLETS system. If you want to be bored out of your mind search, CLETS, CORI, and the "right to know, need to know" laws.

I'll run my CDL through the system in the next week or so and see what comes back.
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  #54  
Old 07-18-2021, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
I think you mean 5th Amendment.

Then again ignoring the terms of one's permit, isn't exactly the smartest advise I've seen anyone give.
It's almost like registering to vote, but you a noted REPUBLICAN and your vote gets trashed.
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  #55  
Old 07-18-2021, 11:04 AM
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Somebody should inform BLM that respect begets respect.
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  #56  
Old 07-19-2021, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Somebody should inform BLM that respect begets respect.
I've never had any problems with the Bureau of Land Management.

As far as informing an officer of your CCW, in the case of IA, (Orange County) it specifically states my duty to inform any officer I interact with about it, as well as call my IA and inform them of my interaction.

I guess the best advice in general is to try to keep ANY interaction with police at a bare minimum while going about one's daily life.
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  #57  
Old 07-20-2021, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rcslotcar View Post
As a now retired LEO, I'd like to know asap. If my partner or I saw the weapon or "print" he would be looking down the barrels of two guns. OP you did well! The officer understood the need for CCW.
+1

In today's climate I think it's MORE dangerous to not inform. There is no way I can lift my azz up and get to my wallet without you seeing the appendix print. I ain't trying to get pulled on. Just my approach.

P.S. I like to have my wallet out before I park at the curb but you never know.
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  #58  
Old 07-20-2021, 5:35 PM
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OP you did the right thing & don’t need us to tell you that!
Now stop breaking the law like the other guy said
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  #59  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:34 PM
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I feel like thatís a pretty dumb thing to say, that there isnít a chance you might get shot while carrying a concealed weapon. I call bull****, read enough stories where people were shot for less. Lol
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  #60  
Old 07-21-2021, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rcslotcar View Post
As a now retired LEO, I'd like to know asap. If my partner or I saw the weapon or "print" he would be looking down the barrels of two guns. OP you did well! The officer understood the need for CCW.
I too am retired LEO. I also let anyone who has stopped me know: 1. I am armed, 2. location of my weapon and 3. and request his/her advice as to how I provide creds and comply with any of his/her requests. To play games with keeping silent and not disclosing to protect your 4th amendment rights (rplaw, you might want to look that up), is playing a potentially dangerous game. You set the tone for the stop, not the officer. Play games, and if I or my partner saw you carrying concealed without disclosing, you may have found a gun screwed in your ear for my protection. I started in 1980, so I'm a bit old school in my training. After that, you'd likely lose any consideration, be cited and then have a message dropped to your issuing agency. Why risk a potentially minor situation escalating into a potentially dangerous one? Despite what some may have intimated here, not all coppers are AHs. Some of us are actually pretty good guys.
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  #61  
Old 07-21-2021, 2:18 PM
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I hope nobody follows RPLaw's advice. Sounds like great advice in a vacuum...
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  #62  
Old 07-22-2021, 8:17 PM
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Play games, and if I or my partner saw you carrying concealed without disclosing, you may have found a gun screwed in your ear for my protection.
Wild.


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Old 07-23-2021, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dieppe42 View Post
Driving last night from El Dorado County to Arnold, (Hwy 49 to Hwy 4) Just turned on to Hwy 4 in Angels Camp heading over the Murphys Grade bypass bridge. Saw CHP unit at far end of the bridge, I was going 70. Slowed but knew I was tagged. He started slinging gravel with his tires, so I started to look for a spot to stop before he lit me up.

Windows down, engine off, hazards on, 10-2....He comes up to the drivers-side window, I said "hello, I need to inform you I am a Concealed Permit Holder, and my Firearm is on my right hip, how would you like to proceed" He said "can you raise your shirt and show me?" I did.

I told him I had my reg and proof of insurance in my visor, but DL and CCW proof was in wallet. He adjusted a little bit forward, and said "just do it slowly." He reviewed my docs, and handed everything back, and said "I am not going to write you up for the ticket, just watch your speed, and I want to thank you for carrying, I wish more people did!"

I want to thank the folks here in the Calguns Community, I would not have know how to handle this (how to notify, and docs on visor) without folks sharing here.

CHP Officer looked a little like "Officer Greg" from Taofledermaus channel. Big guy, short blond hair.
I live in Arnold. This isn't the city and SO is very pro-CCW up here. While I have not had an encounter with CHP while carrying, it's nice to know they feel the same. We have a great group of LE officers in Calaveras County.
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Old 07-24-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jmatt511 View Post
I too am retired LEO. I also let anyone who has stopped me know: 1. I am armed, 2. location of my weapon and 3. and request his/her advice as to how I provide creds and comply with any of his/her requests. To play games with keeping silent and not disclosing to protect your 4th amendment rights (rplaw, you might want to look that up), is playing a potentially dangerous game. You set the tone for the stop, not the officer. Play games, and if I or my partner saw you carrying concealed without disclosing, you may have found a gun screwed in your ear for my protection. I started in 1980, so I'm a bit old school in my training. After that, you'd likely lose any consideration, be cited and then have a message dropped to your issuing agency.
Carrying concealed without disclosing isn't necessarily illegal. There are lots of CA CCW's issued that don't require disclosure. If you are so afraid of citizens exercising their constitutional rights, why did you take a job as an officer and swear an oath to uphold the Constitution?

You say the gun in the ear would be for your protection so I will take you on your word for that. Why the loss of consideration and the message to the issuing agency? Is that just to teach them a lesson for not following your made up rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmatt511 View Post
Why risk a potentially minor situation escalating into a potentially dangerous one? Despite what some may have intimated here, not all coppers are AHs. Some of us are actually pretty good guys.
That goes both ways. If I know I am stopped for a minor traffic violation why would I bring a gun into it? Maybe the officer then wants to get me out of the vehicle and disarm me. That seems more dangerous than not saying anything, getting my ticket and being on my way.

I know not all cops are AHs, in fact I believe the vast majority are not. If the cop is not an AH then he won't retaliate by giving me a ticket he wouldn't normally give me and contacting my issuing agency just because I didn't follow some imaginary rule to disclose. If he is an AH and I tell him I have a gun he might escalate the situation.

Last edited by pepsi2451; 07-24-2021 at 2:48 PM..
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  #65  
Old 07-24-2021, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rcslotcar View Post
As a now retired LEO, I'd like to know asap. If my partner or I saw the weapon or "print" he would be looking down the barrels of two guns. OP you did well! The officer understood the need for CCW.
You would pull your guns on people just for printing? How many unarmed people did you pull guns on when those cell phone used to come with belt clips back in the day?

I think about 17 states have constitutional carry now, I wonder how LE in those states manage to make traffic stops every day without drawing guns on everyone.

Last edited by pepsi2451; 07-24-2021 at 2:49 PM..
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Old 07-24-2021, 2:03 PM
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Carrying concealed without disclosing isn't necessarily illegal. There are lots of CA CCW's issued that don't require disclosure.
San Diego County Sheriff is one of those IAs.


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Old 07-25-2021, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharedShots View Post
I thought I had seen it all.

Why is it that some people with a CCW have this need to report back to the group when they get stopped while CCwing as if it's an activity? FFS, read the OP.

First, he admits to speeding and then goes on to in enough detail in location, quotes and all that so that now everyone knows exactly who it was, when it happened and where. Do any of you guys racing to the Internet to post play by plays think about what you're doing?

For crying out loud people, you're supposed to be the innocuous person, the one not attracting attention and yet here you are giving up the ghost because you want to share. Share what, that you were speeding in violation of the law, got stopped and then ran here to tell everyone everything but the Officer's name which by the way is practically public info now since you went into so much detail about where he was, his appearance and everything else?

What you should have been doing is observing the speed limit so that you didn't get stopped by the CHP in the first place.

Have you stopped speeding? It doesn't happen by accident and there is a reason why you were asked to stop doing that, because they end up scrapping people like you out of cars after the collision or worse, trying to save the people you ran into because you think what you're doing is ok.

Seriously, you don't know the politics of his Watch Commander or anyone else he has contact with but here you are giving it all up and making sure tell everyone that little anecdote about him wishing more people carried guns. Is that crazy or what?

While no doubt you sought to share all this because whew, you got out of the ticket what you really should have thought was, "maybe I should start paying attention to what I'm doing, count my blessings and keep this all as quiet as I can - learned my lesson" and not let me run to the Internet and turn this out for the whole world to see.

Stop being the CCW groupie. You got one, be the grey man, stop speeding and making yourself an object of attention by getting stopped by the police. If you weren't speeding you wouldn't need to come here and thank people for something that should never have taken place.
You nailed it. To me it's a waste of space on Calguns.

California's drivers used to be known as the best in the US. When I visit California I know things have changed...azzhole drivers no matter where you go.
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  #68  
Old 07-26-2021, 4:33 PM
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cudakidd cudakidd is offline
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First of all I don't speed, can't afford the ticket cost and since retired not in a hurry.

But had a CCW since 1985.

Disclosure is a issue requirement. Would do so without hesitation, No crime Committed, no worry!
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