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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-31-2020, 3:39 PM
Vonbrandwolf Vonbrandwolf is offline
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Default DPMS G2 80% Lowers

Hi everyone, long time lurker here.
Iím currently considering going through the ATF approval process to sell 80% lowers for the DPMS G2 platform.
Iíve always had an affinity for the smaller frame and Iím trying to gauge interest on an initial production run, assuming the approval process goes smoothly.
I know the parts for this platform are rare, but there are a few companies making bits a pieces. You can even buy good barrels, handguards and charging handles now.
I may be looking at producing complete receiver sets as well, with bolt carrier groups coming later on.
So my question is who might be interested?
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2020, 4:11 PM
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I have a AR10 build I am working on now. I have only seen parts for DPMS, which specifically state not compatible for G2.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2020, 4:18 PM
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Where did you see 80% G2 lowers ?
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2020, 4:25 PM
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If you could source all the parts you would have something. Lower must be cut to accept ar15 drop in sears.
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2020, 4:40 PM
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I should have mentioned I’ll also be producing said parts. I run a small machine shop in a sector that has seen some slowdown in the pandemic era, and I’m looking to diversify my product lineup to keep machines running.
I’ve always had a passion for this sort of work, so it’s an easy transition, and having high speed production type CNC equipment at my disposal makes it even easier.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2020, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
If you could source all the parts you would have something. Lower must be cut to accept ar15 drop in sears.
I agree with you that sourcing parts will be a bit tricky at first.
I believe complete upper assemblies are available from Adams Arms, but if I remember correctly they are a piston setup and not DI.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2020, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbrandwolf View Post
I agree with you that sourcing parts will be a bit tricky at first.
I believe complete upper assemblies are available from Adams Arms, but if I remember correctly they are a piston setup and not DI.
The extra weight would negate the benefit of the smaller frame.
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2020, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
The extra weight would negate the benefit of the smaller frame.
I think carrying a larger caliber will always bring a bit more weight, but the small frame DPMS G2 platform is considerably lighter than the large frame DPMS Gen 1. A complete ZEV SF-308 is 8.6 lbs with a 20Ē heavy profile 6.5 creedmoor barrel.
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:11 AM
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So if your producing uppers lowers and bolt carriers along with barrel extension (that I think Brownells sells) then yes I would be down. The small frame AR 10 is great. I have an Adams arms and would mind getting or building another small frame larger caliber rifle.
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2020, 11:11 AM
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As with all things, price is the big question
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:16 PM
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Tell us more!

What would the advantages be versus going with existing receivers, like say, aero in the mid range price and LMT in the upper range price?
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Tell us more!

What would the advantages be versus going with existing receivers, like say, aero in the mid range price and LMT in the upper range price?
The design of the G2 is better in that the feed is more reliable from the magazine into the chamber and that it utilizes many AR 15 parts. My Adams arms 16Ē is under 8 lbs so the piston system is not a big handicap.
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2020, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Tell us more!

What would the advantages be versus going with existing receivers, like say, aero in the mid range price and LMT in the upper range price?
As damon1272 said, there are advantages in the updated design of the feed ramps, as well as an improved bolt with dual extractors. The feed ramps are no longer milled into the upper receiver, but are a separate, replaceable steel insert. I believe the main advantage, however, is the size and weight savings over the large frame AR.

Unlike the ZEV platform I would keep the upper receiver as standardized as possible, and compatible with all DPMS G2 accessories currently on the market.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2020, 12:20 PM
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If there's enough interest I'll make two versions of the receiver - a simple, easy to mill and economically priced version, and a high-end, ultra lightweight version to capitalize on the small frame design.

Obligatory disclaimer: Obviously an 80% would not have the fcg pocket, pin holes, or safety lever hole.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg DPMS G2 lwr drvr side.jpg (11.2 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg DPMS G2 lwr passide.jpg (10.8 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by Vonbrandwolf; 08-03-2020 at 12:22 PM..
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2020, 3:53 PM
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Interested. Parts might be an issue though. I'd buy one and save for when I move.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2020, 4:28 PM
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how about SR-25 lowers?
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2020, 4:52 PM
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I’d be down to buy a couple.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2020, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoroshi View Post
how about SR-25 lowers?
I believe a number of manufacturers are already producing SR-25/AR-10 pattern lowers. Im specifically pursuing the small frame DPMS G2 market because there is no one else currently in that marketplace.
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2020, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Iíd be down to buy a couple.
Thanks for your interest. Iíll try to keep this thread updated as I progress with prototyping and ATF approval.
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2020, 6:07 AM
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Doesn’t 80% Arms use DPMS Gen 2? I had a couple lowers that I sold a while back. I’m almost 100% positive that they use (or used) DPMS gen 2.
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  #21  
Old 08-04-2020, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdraw559 View Post
Doesnít 80% Arms use DPMS Gen 2? I had a couple lowers that I sold a while back. Iím almost 100% positive that they use (or used) DPMS gen 2.
All of their currently offered lowers are either AR15 or large frame DPMS pattern. As far as I know no one has produced 80% lower receivers for the small frame platform.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2020, 9:13 PM
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Yes interested.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2020, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdraw559 View Post
Doesnít 80% Arms use DPMS Gen 2? I had a couple lowers that I sold a while back. Iím almost 100% positive that they use (or used) DPMS gen 2.
No they don't
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2020, 9:15 PM
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Unfortunately there is a huge ignorance problem with gun owners on what the G2 is. That needs over come.
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2020, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcountryrider View Post
Unfortunately there is a huge ignorance problem with gun owners on what the G2 is. That needs over come.
Yep.
It's the biggest hurdle to the success of the G2 platform.
With DPMS gone now, no other big companies are going to keep supporting the platform.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-2020, 9:27 PM
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I’m in!
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2020, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbrandwolf View Post
If there's enough interest I'll make two versions of the receiver - a simple, easy to mill and economically priced version, and a high-end, ultra lightweight version to capitalize on the small frame design.

Obligatory disclaimer: Obviously an 80% would not have the fcg pocket, pin holes, or safety lever hole.
Iíd be interested in the ultra light version.

Is there a reason it has to be 80% and not complete?
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2020, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Is there a reason it has to be 80% and not complete?
Licensing.

In order to make/sell 100% receivers, you have to be a licensed manufacturer and deal with all the other hassles that go along with that.
In order to make/sell 80% receivers, you only need to get a determination from the ATF that it's NOT a firearm.
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2020, 6:54 PM
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"you only need to get a determination from the ATF that it's NOT a firearm."

I feel like this is a calgunism and not really true.
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Old 08-05-2020, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcountryrider View Post
"you only need to get a determination from the ATF that it's NOT a firearm."

I feel like this is a calgunism and not really true.
Unfortunately ar15barrels is 100% correct in that the ATF has to determine the receiver is not completed enough to be a firearm.
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Old 08-05-2020, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Iíd be interested in the ultra light version.

Is there a reason it has to be 80% and not complete?
Thanks for your interest. Iíll be making a small run of both regular and ultra light sets as soon as I get approval. Iíll keep this thread updated with my progress.

Also, as mentioned above, the licensing to become a firearms manufacturer in California is prohibitive and laborious. Iím not necessarily ruling it out, but Iíll definitely be starting with 80% lowers first.
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Old 08-06-2020, 3:37 AM
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Sounds super interesting. Count me in for a pair or three. One is none... Especially for 80%'ers.
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2020, 7:19 AM
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Sounds very interesting
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Old 08-06-2020, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbrandwolf View Post
Thanks for your interest. I’ll be making a small run of both regular and ultra light sets as soon as I get approval. I’ll keep this thread updated with my progress.

Also, as mentioned above, the licensing to become a firearms manufacturer in California is prohibitive and laborious. I’m not necessarily ruling it out, but I’ll definitely be starting with 80% lowers first.
If I could go to your shop or another location and get coaching from you (and borrow the equipment) to go from 80% to 100% I’d be even more interested.

I have assembled an AR from a stripped lower but have never done an 80% build before
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
If I could go to your shop or another location and get coaching from you (and borrow the equipment) to go from 80% to 100%
That's illegal per ATF for several years now.
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbrandwolf View Post
I’ll be making a small run of both regular and ultra light sets as soon as I get approval.
Be very careful about how you go about doing this if you are in CA as well as offering them for sale in CA.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201920200AB879

Your window of manufacturing/sales within CA is probably getting shorter as the 2024 dates in AB8879 are likely going to change to 2022 when this year's budget bill passes:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1623837
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2020, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
That's illegal per ATF for several years now.
Good to know thanks. I obviously havenít kept up to speed on the laws around 80%
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2020, 12:09 PM
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This would require a whole new set of jigs correct?
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Old 08-08-2020, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Be very careful about how you go about doing this if you are in CA as well as offering them for sale in CA.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201920200AB879

Your window of manufacturing/sales within CA is probably getting shorter as the 2024 dates in AB8879 are likely going to change to 2022 when this year's budget bill passes:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1623837
A very short window indeed. Gotta love California.
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  #40  
Old 08-08-2020, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcountryrider View Post
This would require a whole new set of jigs correct?
Yes, these lowers would definitely require unique jigs, which will be made available for purchase.
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