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  #481  
Old 03-18-2020, 7:42 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
Just so I'm tracking this right:
/////
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
1. Ammo can be gifted from an intermediate family member. Eg, dad or mom but not father in law etc due to the narrow definition of family in this case.
Quote:
30312. (a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction[...]
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction[...]
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following[...]
(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
/////
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
2. Ammo can be mailed as a gift by said family member or done face to face.
See above, but USPS prohibits mailing of ammo.
/////
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
There is some haziness around whether "crossing state lines" is strictly kosher without a FFL, correct?
No “haziness”:
Quote:
30314. (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state[...]
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:[...]
(5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
/////
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
3. Gifts should be limited to under 500 rounds.
The 500-round per month limit pertains only to sales within the state. If one wants to sell more than 500 rounds per month, one needs to get an ammo vendor license. The citation for this is a couple of posts above.
/////
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad05 View Post
Is all that accurate?
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  #482  
Old 03-18-2020, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
How are people in the classified forum able to advertise 1000s of rounds of ammo for sale?

What am I missing? I don't want to break the law.
Perhaps they’re unaware of the law....
Perhaps they’re ammo vendors....
Perhaps they have an FFL-03 and COE and think that exempts them.....

Have you asked the people advertising 1,000’s of rounds how they are able to do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Everybody that responds to my ad wants me to sell them more than 500 rounds.
It’s not illegal to buy more than 500 rounds..... But a DOJ shill might certainly like you to sell more.
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  #483  
Old 03-22-2020, 5:20 PM
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It seems like this would be legal, but just want to get other people's perspective:

Can I drive to Nevada with my wife, purchase ammo and then bring that ammo back into California, as long as one of us pays for it and then gives it to the other?
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  #484  
Old 03-22-2020, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor Plink View Post
It seems like this would be legal, but just want to get other people's perspective:

Can I drive to Nevada with my wife, purchase ammo and then bring that ammo back into California, as long as one of us pays for it and then gives it to the other?
Second post above yours:
Quote:
30314. (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state[...]
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:[...]
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Apply your understanding of that as you will. A gift card might be in order....”Thanks for last night, Honey. Here’s some ammunition for you”. Or some other deeply sentimental comment.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 03-22-2020 at 5:30 PM..
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  #485  
Old 03-22-2020, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Second post above yours: Apply your understanding of that as you will. A gift card might be in order....”Thanks for last night, Honey. Here’s some ammunition for you”. Or some other deeply sentimental comment.
I mean, if my wife is with me, why do I need the gift card? She could just confirm that yes, she purchased the ammo and then gave it to me. Right?
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  #486  
Old 03-22-2020, 6:33 PM
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OP, even if you don't wish to spend the time to create a credible back-stop like a credit card receipt in her name, it is always in good taste to say "Thank You." After all, she is your wife and she is your designated civil code exception and she is helping you get ammo. Why make things so hard. With that type of attitude you'll probably also need a receipt for flowers.

Now if you are set on bypassing the whole thank you thing, you could also spend your money on a FFL03 and COE and buy yourself your own ammo to bring back across state lines.
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Last edited by ARFrog; 03-22-2020 at 6:36 PM..
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  #487  
Old 03-22-2020, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Plink View Post
I mean, if my wife is with me, why do I need the gift card? She could just confirm that yes, she purchased the ammo and then gave it to me. Right?
Do whatever you think is ok.

Better...YOU buy the ammo and give it to HER. Then, if it doesn’t work, SHE gets cited and not YOU!
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 03-22-2020 at 8:12 PM..
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  #488  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:13 AM
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I am not sure how to proceed on registering for ammo purchases. I visited a gunshop a few weeks ago and they couldnt find the address I purchased my last pistol at.

I am not sure if I have to register or update my address in the system
  • The last pistol purchase I made was 11/2014
  • The last rifle purchase I made was 12/2015 (M1A and Remington 700)
  • I also received my CCW in 2014 and renewed in 2016. In 2018 I moved to a different county and had to surrender my CCW
  • I renewed my drivers license in 2019 and did not get RealID since I have a passport/global entry. My new drivers license has my current address.

Is there a record out there that I need to update through the system? Or do I have to register as new and go through the process? I looked at the Ammo Flowchart and not quite sure where I sit, please advise thanks!
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  #489  
Old 03-23-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ripcurlksm View Post
I am not sure how to proceed on registering for ammo purchases. I visited a gunshop a few weeks ago and they couldnt find the address I purchased my last pistol at.

I am not sure if I have to register or update my address in the system
  • The last pistol purchase I made was 11/2014
  • The last rifle purchase I made was 12/2015 (M1A and Remington 700)
  • I also received my CCW in 2014 and renewed in 2016. In 2018 I moved to a different county and had to surrender my CCW
  • I renewed my drivers license in 2019 and did not get RealID since I have a passport/global entry. My new drivers license has my current address.
Is there a record out there that I need to update through the system? Or do I have to register as new and go through the process? I looked at the Ammo Flowchart and not quite sure where I sit, please advise thanks!
Follow these instructions and update your AFS information through CFARS.
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  #490  
Old 03-23-2020, 2:35 PM
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most people just go across borders to get items and bring them back
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  #491  
Old 03-23-2020, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
most people just go across borders to get items and bring them back
That may or may not be true, but
Quote:
30314.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.

...

(c) A violation of this section is an infraction for any first time offense, and either an infraction or a misdemeanor for any subsequent offense.
At Calguns, we do not suggest people commit crimes, or imply people ought to commit crimes.

What you actually do off the forum is your business.
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  #492  
Old 03-23-2020, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Follow these instructions and update your AFS information through CFARS.
Perfect, thank you Sir
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  #493  
Old 05-07-2020, 4:24 PM
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I'm a little confused. Can 16720 have a father ship ammo from out of state to his son who lives in California?
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  #494  
Old 05-11-2020, 5:06 PM
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Can someone help with this?
10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.

If this is allowed between father and son (ammo coming from out of state) I can get some 00 buck which has been impossible to find for me.

Anybody?
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  #495  
Old 05-11-2020, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casoobaru View Post
I'm a little confused. Can 16720 have a father ship ammo from out of state to his son who lives in California?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casoobaru View Post
Can someone help with this?
10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.

If this is allowed between father and son (ammo coming from out of state) I can get some 00 buck which has been impossible to find for me.

Anybody?
Does this help?
Quote:
DIVISION 2. DEFINITIONS [16100 - 17360] ( Division 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
16720.
As used in this part, “immediate family member” means either of the following relationships:
(a) Parent and child.
CA Pen 30312
Quote:
30312.
(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction.[...]
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, [...]
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:[...]
(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Quote:
CA PEN 30314
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 05-11-2020 at 7:56 PM..
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  #496  
Old 05-12-2020, 2:43 PM
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Ok, thanks I was unclear on the shipping part of it.
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  #497  
Old 05-25-2020, 9:09 AM
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I bought a box of .357 magnum ammunition yesterday at Big 5 and it took about 15 minutes to match my information with the information in the AFS. Would it take less time if I had a COE?
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  #498  
Old 05-25-2020, 9:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy1988 View Post
I bought a box of .357 magnum ammunition yesterday at Big 5 and it took about 15 minutes to match my information with the information in the AFS. Would it take less time if I had a COE?

If you are going to do that then you might as well also get the 03FFL then you can have ammo shipped to your door.
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  #499  
Old 05-25-2020, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
If you are going to do that then you might as well also get the 03FFL then you can have ammo shipped to your door.
If I only got the COE though would it speed the process up in stores so I wouldn’t have to wait as long to buy ammo?
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  #500  
Old 05-25-2020, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy1988 View Post
If I only got the COE though would it speed the process up in stores so I wouldn’t have to wait as long to buy ammo?

Didn’t seem to help me when I needed some shotgun ammo for hunting.
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  #501  
Old 05-27-2020, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy1988 View Post
If I only got the COE though would it speed the process up in stores so I wouldn’t have to wait as long to buy ammo?
No. All the COE does is bypass the AFS bump of your data. The vendor still needs to input all of your data and the COE number, wait for a response, then log your purchases. You still have to stand in line waiting to be served, etc.

As 97F1504RAD pointed out, you’re going to spring over $100 for the COE and $22 for annual renewals.

$30 more gets you a 3-year FFL03, and you don’t have to stand in line at the store.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 05-27-2020 at 10:13 AM.. Reason: Edited for pricing of COE Livescan
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  #502  
Old 05-27-2020, 8:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
No. All the COE does is bypass the AFS bump of your data. The vendor still needs to input all of your data and the COE number, wait for a response, then log your purchases. You still have to stand in line waiting to be served, etc.

As 97F1504RAD pointed out, you’re going to spring close to $200 for the COE and $22 for annual renewals.

$30 more gets you a 3-year FFL03, and you don’t have to stand in line at the store.
Thanks for the answer.
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  #503  
Old 05-27-2020, 9:30 AM
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COE is $71 + LiveScan.
LiveScan depending where you go can cost anywhere from $15 to $50.

So if you play your cards right you can have COE totally completed under $100 and 03 is $30 flat for 3 years.
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  #504  
Old 06-10-2020, 9:52 PM
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Default Gifting Ammo?

can someone gift me a box of 50rds of ammo without an FFL?
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Voting for Donald Trump is the protest vote against: Keynesian economics, Neocon wars, exporting jobs, open borders, Washington criminal cartel, too big to fail banks and too big to jail pols and banksters.

Cutting off foreign aid to EVERY country and dismantling the police/surveillance state!

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  #505  
Old 06-11-2020, 12:47 PM
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Crud! I was sure I knew the answer (No) until I read the post Garv linked to. Now I am not sure.

The PC in section (a)(1) says, "the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor." So that concerns only SALES.

Then (a)(2) says, "When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor,..." So, that section also has to do with a SALE, not a gift.

Then section (b) says, "the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section"

Which says that if I GIVE the ammo to a person F2F, and it is not a remote/Internet sale, I am OK.

So, in reading it, I would have naively said, that I CAN gift ammo to a person as long as I do it in person.

Which does not sound like what I was thinking it was going to be.

So my apologies for the stupid question, but... Can I gift ammo F2F legally?

If not, is it because "sale" includes zero dollar transfers or some such silliness?

Katie
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  #506  
Old 06-11-2020, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarmy View Post
Friends are just that...

Do what you want with your friends and move on...not really anybody else’s business.
OK. I totally get that. I have had a friend recently tell me they are afraid with recent happenings. I responded with suggesting a felonious act, which was not accepted...

But would such a gift be LEGAL?

Katie
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  #507  
Old 06-11-2020, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarmy View Post
On legal matters I am not the correct person to advise. I am sorry that I am not more helpful...but I know that some other folks will likely be along with sound advise...

Librarian or some of the other seasoned mods/members are whom I would pay attention to.
Thank you, Tarmy!

A very wise person said to me about this topic:

I think there are two separate questions embedded in your query.

1) What is legal based on how the law is written?
2) What is legal based on how the law will be interpreted by whomever is judging your case?

It might be useful to consider the difference.


Perhaps that is the real answer. Unless you want to be the test case, act conservatively.

And I should offer my apologies to the OP for me thinking it was a simple, straight forward answer. Clearly it wasn't...

Katie
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  #508  
Old 06-11-2020, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yugo View Post
can someone gift me a box of 50rds of ammo without an FFL?
OK, this post and relevant replies have been merged into the ammo law thread - you know, the one that has "ask here, not a new thread" in the title.

12 posts out of that thread have been deleted - the "How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me" forum is not OT, and replies are supposed to be about actually helping folks understand how to obey the laws.

PC 30312(c)(9) and (c)(10) seem to be the only useful exemption:
Quote:

(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction.
...
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
...
(9) A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facility’s premises.

(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
...
(9) says anyone can give you ammo at a range, so long as it stays there.
(10) says those listed kinds of people can give you ammo anywhere.

(Similar exemption to (10), above, for 'import/transfer at Ammo Vendor' at 30314(b)(6))

No quantity limit listed.

I believe the confusion comes from the existence of Prop 63 and a bill that passed; the bill had language that Prop 63 over-wrote.

SB1235 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01520160SB1235 - passed, and was subsequently modified by Prop 63 (This is the category example of why one must look at the official site for laws rather than the bills that added the law to the code.)

1235 did have a 50-round transfer provision, at 30367 - current law does not have a section 30367.

So, so far as I can tell - and with the mess of this law, I think it would be easy to miss - the answer to the original question is 'no' as a general case.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


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Last edited by Librarian; 06-11-2020 at 3:11 PM..
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  #509  
Old 06-11-2020, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
OK, this post and relevant replies have been merged into the ammo law thread - you know, the one that has "ask here, not a new thread" in the title.

12 posts out of that thread have been deleted - the "How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me" forum is not OT, and replies are supposed to be about actually helping folks understand how to obey the laws.

PC 30312(c)(9) and (c)(10) seem to be the only useful exemption:
(9) says anyone can give you ammo at a range, so long as it stays there.
(10) says those listed kinds of people can give you ammo anywhere.

(Similar exemption to (10), above, for 'import/transfer at Ammo Vendor' at 30314(b)(6))

No quantity limit listed.

I believe the confusion comes from the existence of Prop 63 and a bill that passed; the bill had language that Prop 63 over-wrote.

SB1235 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01520160SB1235 - passed, and was subsequently modified by Prop 63 (This is the category example of why one must look at the official site for laws rather than the bills that added the law to the code.)

1235 did have a 50-round transfer provision, at 30367 - current law does not have a section 30367.

So, so far as I can tell - and with the mess of this law, I think it would be easy to miss - the answer to the original question is 'no' as a general case.
thank you. that answers it.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:40 AM
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A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?
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Old 07-30-2020, 2:48 AM
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A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?
False.

A C&R and COE only applies as an exception to a transferee, it does not apply to a transferor.

The only exception which applies to a transferor applies to any person or entity, whereby you can sell up to 500 rounds in any 30 day period without needing an ammunition vendor license.
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Old 07-30-2020, 2:49 AM
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California Penal Code

30342.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a valid ammunition vendor license shall be required for any person, firm, corporation, or other business enterprise to sell more than 500 rounds of ammunition in any 30-day period.

(b) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

30312.

(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.

(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
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Old 07-30-2020, 3:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire4Effect View Post
A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?
Unless you are licensed as a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer, you can only sell up to a total of 500 rounds every 30 days. [PC 30342(a)]

You can sell to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE without having it transferred through a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer. [PC 30312(c)(6)]

Therefore...
As long as you do not sell more than 500 rounds within a 30 day period, you can legally sell, via face-to-face cash & carry type transfer, to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE.
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Old 07-30-2020, 4:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Unless you are licensed as a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer, you can only sell up to a total of 500 rounds every 30 days. [PC 30342(a)]

You can sell to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE without having it transferred through a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer. [PC 30312(c)(6)]

Therefore...
As long as you do not sell more than 500 rounds within a 30 day period, you can legally sell, via face-to-face cash & carry type transfer, to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE.
Thank you. So I would need to see a copy of his valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE to complete the face to face transfer.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:33 AM
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So is there any legal way for this ammo to be brought over in my situation?
No, not without a bunch of really sketchy activity and effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyb23 View Post
My grandmother was visiting in Wisconsin, I found a shop over there with ammo in stock and got about $600 in ammo which I paid for over the phone. She has a sister in Wyoming, but that doesn't count as immediate family right? Crazy to me that your siblings don't count.

She will be driving back this week. It said for first offense it's an infraction right? Do they confiscate the ammo if they happen to find it?

Can I put a shipping label on the package so it would now be mail they can't open? Lol. Any advice would be great.
Who is where and going to do what?

You purchased ammo by phone from a Wisconsin vendor and your grandmother picked up your ammunition. Your grandmother is a CA resident and is transporting your ammunition back to CA for you. Is that it?

(No clue as to what a great aunt in Wyoming has to do with this. If you’re contemplating a story of grandma got the ammo from her sister, that won’t work and will have them both in jeopardy.)

-First offense is an infraction, but, if your grandmother talks to the cops, you and she could be looked at for conspiracy. That’s more than an infraction.
-They’ll keep the contraband...wouldn’t make much sense to let the shipment through, would it?
-“Mail” isn’t protected until it is in the possession of USPS....but you can’t mail ammo through the USPS. UPS/FedEx shipments aren’t federally protected.

The nature of your question indicates you know having grandma mule the stuff in for you puts her at risk.

-Meet grandma across the state line. Have her buy the ammo from you...then give it to you as a gift (include a gift card). Then, you can bring it in under the exemption. But, that’s still pretty sketchy, and opens the door to conspiracy, fraud, etc.

-Take a friend with an FFL-03 + COE with you to meet grandma. The friend can bring the ammo in after he buys it from you/grams. Transfer from them to you within the state is a separate issue, but grandma’s out of the equation.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-01-2020 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:33 AM
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So let me get this straight, you just joined this forum and this is your first post and you want us to tell you how to break the law. Nice.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Fire4Effect View Post
Thank you. So I would need to see a copy of his valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE to complete the face to face transfer.
An ID matching those docs would be prudent. Make copies.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:35 AM
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So let me get this straight, you just joined this forum and this is your first post and you want us to tell you how to break the law. Nice.
Or, get grandma bagged....
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  #519  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:13 PM
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I haven't bought ammo since before the law went into effect and am looking at the flowchart trying to understand everything. I'm thinking COE is the right way to go. I have some questions:

Is there any downside to getting the COE? Like record keeping or whatever?

I only have a "federal limits apply" drivers license and my passport is expired. I may be able to find my marriage license somewhere. What ID do I need to get a COE and/or buy ammo?

I was livescanned before when I applied for my contractor's license, in 2011. Does that count for anything?

Is it true that you can't buy ammo for firearms that you haven't purchased?
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Old 08-02-2020, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swilson View Post
I haven't bought ammo since before the law went into effect and am looking at the flowchart trying to understand everything. I'm thinking COE is the right way to go. I have some questions:

1 - Is there any downside to getting the COE? Like record keeping or whatever?

2 - I only have a "federal limits apply" drivers license and my passport is expired. I may be able to find my marriage license somewhere. What ID do I need to get a COE and/or buy ammo?

3 - I was livescanned before when I applied for my contractor's license, in 2011. Does that count for anything?

4 - Is it true that you can't buy ammo for firearms that you haven't purchased?
1 - don't know, but don't think so

2 - ID for ammo is the same as for buying a gun -
Quote:
§ 4045.1. Additional Documentation Requirements for Eligibility Checks with Federal Non-Compliant California Driver License or Identification Card.
This section applies to all firearms and ammunition eligibility checks,
...
(b) For all eligibility checks, if the applicant presents a federal non-compliant California driver license or identification card with the notation “FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY” on the front, the applicant shall also submit proof of lawful presence in the United States, as specified in subdivisions (d) through (g), in the form of one of the following documents:
(1) Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or passport card.
(2) Certified copy of U.S. birth certificate (issued by a city, county, or state vital statistics office). “Abbreviated” or “Abstract” certificates are NOT accepted.
(3) Certification of Birth Abroad (FS-545), Certification of Report of Birth (DS-1350) or Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (FS-240), issued by the U.S. Department of State.
(4) Valid, unexpired foreign passport with valid U.S. immigrant visa and approved Record of Arrival/Departure (I-94) form.
(5) Certified copy of birth certificate from a U.S. Territory.
(6) Certificate of Naturalization or U.S. Citizenship.
(7) Valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card.
easy ones:
3 - no, have to do it again if you need prints for something now.

4 - not true. Current address in AFS is the $1 check.
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