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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 07-31-2020, 9:59 AM
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https://www.senate.ca.gov/media/sena...ideo?id=182786 if anyone wants to watch the Senate Public Safety Commitee. Just finished up line item number 10.
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  #162  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ View Post
https://www.senate.ca.gov/media/sena...ideo?id=182786 if anyone wants to watch the Senate Public Safety Commitee. Just finished up line item number 10.
thanks for the link!
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  #163  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:32 AM
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For people who wish to participate, number is 844-291-6364 and access code is 2674359. Currently on AB2512. AB2847 is above five items afterwards.
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  #164  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:31 AM
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These are criminals
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  #165  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:32 AM
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Passes out of committee, 5-2.
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  #166  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:32 AM
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Passed 5-2. Would have liked to see Moorlach push harder on why three guns had to be removed for every one added. Makes zero sense.
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  #167  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:42 AM
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Notice the representative from Alameda could not answer the question. Unbelievable!!!!.
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  #168  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:55 AM
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Since the technology for it does not exist it might be awhile before one makes it onto the list.

And if ONE DOES make it onto the list we can simply boycott that company. Same thing that happened to that "smart gun" that we never hear about anymore. Because just like micro-stamping it is easy to work around it.
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  #169  
Old 07-31-2020, 1:04 PM
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Love how they keep adding in the "COVID-19 Pandemic" as an excuse for why these bills are needed.
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  #170  
Old 07-31-2020, 1:22 PM
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Moorlach didn't even know what the roster was .. He said "Is there a catalog or something ?"
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  #171  
Old 08-01-2020, 5:46 AM
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Video of the vote can be found here,
https://www.senate.ca.gov/media/sena...20200731/video

At three hours one minute.
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  #172  
Old 08-01-2020, 7:00 AM
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No one knows what a roster is or how it works..... amazing I wonder how many are on the take from giffords and everytown
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  #173  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spegull03 View Post
Passed 5-2. Would have liked to see Moorlach push harder on why three guns had to be removed for every one added. Makes zero sense.
Because their goal is not really "common sense" gun regulation...
It is to eliminate civilian ownership of all firearms.
Socialist despise an armed citizenry as a clear and present danger to their tyranny.
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  #174  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:04 PM
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Moorlach didn't even know what the roster was .. He said "Is there a catalog or something ?"
Yes. Sickening.

Legislators attempting to legislate something they know nothing about should be a criminal offense.
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  #175  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Moorlach didn't even know what the roster was .. He said "Is there a catalog or something ?"
Moorlach used to be a member of the board of supervisors here in Orange County. He's remembered for spending 3 million dollars of tax payer money to defund our retirement system. He lost and is not fondly remembered.
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  #176  
Old 08-01-2020, 1:27 PM
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Sad that Gabby Giffords has become an extremist radical. She's just pissed that some creep shot and wounded her and totally turned into anti-gun nut. Her husband is running for Arizona U.S. Senate and probably will win. We'll know where that's going...
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  #177  
Old 08-01-2020, 5:39 PM
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Sad that Gabby Giffords has become an extremist radical. She's just pissed that some creep shot and wounded her and totally turned into anti-gun nut. Her husband is running for Arizona U.S. Senate and probably will win. We'll know where that's going...
Excellent random post. This is thread is about a piece of California legislation and has nothing to do with federal law or Gabby Giffords or her husband.
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  #178  
Old 08-01-2020, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Excellent random post. This is thread is about a piece of California legislation and has nothing to do with federal law or Gabby Giffords or her husband.
Because Giffords and everytown is getting a lot of pull from representatives. They all voted on this with no knowledge of the rosters current situation with how many guns are on the roster which as of today is 827 but they donít understand that a lot of these guns are counted more than one time based on sights colors or calibers for example a S&W shield counts as 10 guns on the roster but itís one model of gun but different calibers or colors or sights
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  #179  
Old 08-02-2020, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Excellent random post. This is thread is about a piece of California legislation and has nothing to do with federal law or Gabby Giffords or her husband.
Well then, here is something that does...
While California has taken lot of steps to "discourage" firearms and ammunition purchases by non-LEO civilians, the Roster of Safe Handguns is an important prong of their "civilian firearms ownership discouragement" regime.

The Roster, by both limiting choice and reducing it over the long term, is having a chilling effect on Californian's gun purchases.
Gun sales are through the roof across the US now with ammunition, as expected, following.
Quote:
"...approximately 90 percent of retailers reported an increase in firearm and ammunition sales during the first half of 2020 versus the first half of 2019. How big are those increases? Responding retailers noted that they are seeing a 95 percent increase in firearm sales and a 139 percent increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019".
source: NSSF, US Retailer Survey July 21, 2020
Interestingly, California's firearms purchases are declining and smaller than many might think, especially per capita.

For instance, let's look at NCIS checks for handguns in June 2020, the latest data published...
Quote:
FBI NCIS handgun checks data for June 2020, top 5 states:
  • FL - 133,285
  • TX - 121,926
  • PA - 90,625
  • CA - 75,210
  • VA - 55,177
source: FBI NCIS Firearms Check Data Month-Year by State-Type for JUne 2020
California is the most populous state in the Union but NCIS checks are at just 56% of Florida, the third most populous, and 63% of Texas, the second most populous. Moving down the line: California checks are 82% of PA, 5th most populous, and only 36% greater than Virginia ranked 12th in population.

And more interesting: OH (7th in population) & OK (28th in population) together had more NCIS checks for handguns than California: 54,811 + 24,400 = 79,211 versus 75,210.

Quote:
NCIS Handgun Checks June 2020 (Rank per capita adjusted per 1000 people):
  • VA 6.46
  • FL 6.21
  • OK 6.17
  • PA 7.08
  • OH 4.69
  • TX 4.20
  • CA 1.90
source: FBI NCIS Firearms Check Data Month-Year by State-Type for June 2020 and 2019 Census Estimates, United States Census Bureau
Side note: Very interesting to me is that states outside of what I'd consider strong traditional "gun-ownership states" are growing in sales faster, implying that those states are seeing a lot of new gun owners. Perhaps the NRA should consider marketing to them more to make a stronger national political force of gun owners.

I don't have access to ammo sales, but I'd bet they are down as well with the new regulations. This is a small amount of NCIS data and only for June 2020. I scanned all of the data and handguns don't seem out of line with long guns and "other" which is not defined. I'd like to do more analysis for all 50 states over more than June 2020; if I do I'll post it separately in some forum. My current fits here for my point, but more analysis and data might fit elsewhere better.

My conclusion: Californian's are simply buying fewer firearms and, as a result I suspect, less ammunition than people in other populous states.
Perhaps this is why an increasing number out-of-state vendors are not working to keep California business in firearms and ammunition. With demand declining while regulation is increasing, in number, restriction, and complexity, it is simply making it more costly pursue a shrinking share of national commerce in firearms and ammunition with California.

I believe California is fighting an economic war on civilian firearms ownership. And, so far, seems to be winning.
And that is what exactly what California and, apparently, the majority of Californians who vote, want. I don't want to believe it, but the numbers don't lie.
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  #180  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:07 AM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
I believe California is fighting an economic war on civilian firearms ownership. And, so far, seems to be winning.
And that is what exactly what California and, apparently, the majority of Californians who vote, want. I don't want to believe it, but the numbers don't lie.
I agree, but base it on a simpler analysis of the 2018 election which gave us Gavin Newsom and his sponsorship of Prop 63:

Some interesting numbers from Nov 2018:

Governor Race
Newsom: 61.9% (7.7M votes)
Cox: 38.1% (4.7M votes)

Proposition 63:
Yes: 63.08% (8.7M votes)
No: 36.92% (5.1M votes)

{Clearly, all 13 million gun owners didnít vote, or if they did, they voted for the other side.}

The telling point here is, while 7.7M votes supported Newsom, 8.7M votes supported Proposition 63. One million voters didnít support Newsom, but they did support ammunition control.

I doubt they were Democrats/Progressives/Socialists.
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  #181  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Well then, here is something that does...
While California has taken lot of steps to "discourage" firearms and ammunition purchases by non-LEO civilians, the Roster of Safe Handguns is an important prong of their "civilian firearms ownership discouragement" regime.

The Roster, by both limiting choice and reducing it over the long term, is having a chilling effect on Californian's gun purchases.
Gun sales are through the roof across the US now with ammunition, as expected, following.
Interestingly, California's firearms purchases are declining and smaller than many might think, especially per capita.

For instance, let's look at NCIS checks for handguns in June 2020, the latest data published...
California is the most populous state in the Union but NCIS checks are at just 56% of Florida, the third most populous, and 63% of Texas, the second most populous. Moving down the line: California checks are 82% of PA, 5th most populous, and only 36% greater than Virginia ranked 12th in population.

And more interesting: OH (7th in population) & OK (28th in population) together had more NCIS checks for handguns than California: 54,811 + 24,400 = 79,211 versus 75,210.

Side note: Very interesting to me is that states outside of what I'd consider strong traditional "gun-ownership states" are growing in sales faster, implying that those states are seeing a lot of new gun owners. Perhaps the NRA should consider marketing to them more to make a stronger national political force of gun owners.

I don't have access to ammo sales, but I'd bet they are down as well with the new regulations. This is a small amount of NCIS data and only for June 2020. I scanned all of the data and handguns don't seem out of line with long guns and "other" which is not defined. I'd like to do more analysis for all 50 states over more than June 2020; if I do I'll post it separately in some forum. My current fits here for my point, but more analysis and data might fit elsewhere better.

My conclusion: Californian's are simply buying fewer firearms and, as a result I suspect, less ammunition than people in other populous states.
Perhaps this is why an increasing number out-of-state vendors are not working to keep California business in firearms and ammunition. With demand declining while regulation is increasing, in number, restriction, and complexity, it is simply making it more costly pursue a shrinking share of national commerce in firearms and ammunition with California.

I believe California is fighting an economic war on civilian firearms ownership. And, so far, seems to be winning.
And that is what exactly what California and, apparently, the majority of Californians who vote, want. I don't want to believe it, but the numbers don't lie.
I help out in a gun shop on the weekends and have to say that I think those numbers are stifled due to the roster. Think about how many 9mm caliber firearms are on the roster. In these times, it is clear to see that 9mm has become the most sought after handgun caliber on the market. Now take in to consideration the backlog the manufacturers are facing. They canít make enough guns that are CA Roster approved. While the rest of the US can purchase whatever the hell they want in 9mm, even settle for another caliber if the 9mm is not in stock.

I believe, if the roster was not in place, CA would be the number one per capita. Do you know how many people have walked in to a gun shop and walked out with nothing because they couldnít purchase the 1 of ~20 handguns in 9mm that are on roster? Sure availability may be a problem, but free states have the Orion to buy 20x the inventory. Not to mention we can only buy 1 in every 30 days.

California is turning red this year! If it doesnít, the elections are rigged. Which we already know they are...
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  #182  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
I believe California is fighting an economic war on civilian firearms ownership. And, so far, seems to be winning.
And that is what exactly what California and, apparently, the majority of Californians who vote, want. I don't want to believe it, but the numbers don't lie.
I've believed for some time that the laws only serve to slow or stop gun sales in California. They have no other real value. I believe the political forces at work , in general, want to reduce gun ownership as they believe that's why there is gun crime. Of course, we know that's not the case.

I don't think any of these people know anything about these laws, but the goal is to reduce gun access so they just rubber stamp any restrictions.
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  #183  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmContagion View Post
I help out in a gun shop on the weekends and have to say that I think those numbers are stifled due to the roster. Think about how many 9mm caliber firearms are on the roster. In these times, it is clear to see that 9mm has become the most sought after handgun caliber on the market. Now take in to consideration the backlog the manufacturers are facing. They can’t make enough guns that are CA Roster approved. While the rest of the US can purchase whatever the hell they want in 9mm, even settle for another caliber if the 9mm is not in stock.

I believe, if the roster was not in place, CA would be the number one per capita. Do you know how many people have walked in to a gun shop and walked out with nothing because they couldn’t purchase the 1 of ~20 handguns in 9mm that are on roster? Sure availability may be a problem, but free states have the Orion to buy 20x the inventory. Not to mention we can only buy 1 in every 30 days.

California is turning red this year! If it doesn’t, the elections are rigged. Which we already know they are...



I found this video funny, because in California the stock at this gun store would be more than fully stocked .. Yet this guy is complaining because there's not a lot of stock, and the guns are going fast because of the pandemic.

A lot of California gun stores have zero guns in stock, I mean shelves are empty.

I've estimated in the past the roster is about a %99 ban on semi auto handguns.

Your right about 9mm being popular. Semi auto is most popular also, and people aren't buying a lot of revolvers.
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  #184  
Old 08-02-2020, 8:30 AM
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Ranges and Gun Clubs should ban smart and/or microstamped guns that these bills are promoting.
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  #185  
Old 08-02-2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post


I found this video funny, because in California the stock at this gun store would be more than fully stocked .. Yet this guy is complaining because there's not a lot of stock, and the guns are going fast because of the pandemic.

A lot of California gun stores have zero guns in stock, I mean shelves are empty.

I've estimated in the past the roster is about a %99 ban on semi auto handguns.

Your right about 9mm being popular. Semi auto is most popular also, and people aren't buying a lot of revolvers.
I've seen a lot of this I also occasionally help out at a friends gun store, 99% of these people have never handled a gun in there life or if they did it was about 30+ years ago and lot of these people have no idea or concept of what the roster is or what you can buy off a dealer that is a normal store gun vs a consignment, they all look for the "ideal home defense gun" on YouTube or google without the understanding that we cannot legally obtain said gun ie p320 unless its used as a consignment or new as a leo purchase, Then ask for a Glock 19 for us to tell them that there are none available due to wholesalers being sold out and reserving those guns for bigger dealers, although we have a large selection of used and new revolvers they do not wish to purchase since they would rather have a semi auto seen on youtube
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  #186  
Old 08-02-2020, 2:17 PM
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Ranges and Gun Clubs should ban smart and/or microstamped guns that these bills are promoting.
There aren't any.
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  #187  
Old 08-02-2020, 2:37 PM
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There aren't any.
A year or so ago, there was a story of Coonan claiming that have perfected microstamping. Perhaps a PR stunt, but it was met with harsh feedback and think it went nowhere..
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  #188  
Old 08-02-2020, 2:50 PM
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A year or so ago, there was a story of Coonan claiming that have perfected microstamping. Perhaps a PR stunt, but it was met with harsh feedback and think it went nowhere..
Regardless, there are no handguns incorporating microstamping on the CA roster.

The only 'smart gun' ever on the roster was the Armatix IP1, which left the roster on 01/01/2017. It is my understanding that Armatix USA is bankrupt and no longer exists.
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  #189  
Old 08-02-2020, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
The telling point here is, while 7.7M votes supported Newsom, 8.7M votes supported Proposition 63. One million voters didn’t support Newsom, but they did support ammunition control.

I doubt they were Democrats/Progressives/Socialists.
Might have been - https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ror...-reg-stats.pdf
Quote:
September 7, 2018

Democratic ----- 8,349,565 43.8%

Republican ----- 4,676,247 24.5%

No Party Preference ----- 5,105,351 26.8%

Other ----- 955,426 5.0%
Note that registration as No Party Preference is about half a million bigger than Republican.

Also, that September, there were 25,176,403 'eligible voters' but just 19,086,589 registered.

As of 2020, Dems have 9,361,582 registered - up a million, while Repubs have 4,937,986, up less than 300K
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Old 08-02-2020, 5:55 PM
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More likely R’s, RINOs and R’s who shifted to NPs.

Trends:
Quote:
Over 20 years, Dem registration percentages have held fairly steady
2009: 46.7%
2018: 43.8%

Rep registration. -11.1%
2009: 35.6%
2018: 24.5%

No Pref. +14.2
2009: 12.6%
2018: 26.8%

“Other” is static.
The “tectonic shift” isn’t in numbers, but in labels. Dems continue to wear their label openly. The major correlated (not proven causative) shift is between R’s and NP’s.

Halfway through Trump’s first term, progressives and Dems were incited, and excited, to put Newsom in office and support his platform...the major plank of which was his support of Prop 63 (taking the issue out of the hands of the Legislature and giving it to the People). Presumptively, the registered Dems voted for him, as did any number of NPs. Yet, he garnered a million votes LESS than Prop 63. I am hard-pressed to believe that was caused by Dems or Dem-leaning NPs withholding a vote for Newsom while supporting his signature issue.

Two scenarios make this happen:
1. Dems didn’t vote for Newsom; did vote for his signature issue.
2. R’s and NPs (heavily former R’s) who didn’t vote for Newsom voted for Safety For All.

Number 1 didn’t happen; the acolytes followed the Master.

The numbers and the politics support the belief that R’s who shifted to NP didn’t vote for Newsom, but did vote for Safety For All.

Call me a cynic, but the vote shift on the issue really looks like it came from our own ranks as NPs.

Best.
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  #191  
Old 08-02-2020, 6:07 PM
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The numbers and the politics support the belief that Rís who shifted to NP didnít vote for Newsom, but did vote for Safety For All.

Call me a cynic, but the vote shift on the issue really looks like it came from our own ranks as NPs.
Plausible.

Idiots ...
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  #192  
Old 08-02-2020, 6:12 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Idiots ...
Agreed.
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  #193  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:26 PM
Harry Ono Harry Ono is offline
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post

My conclusion: Californian's are simply buying fewer firearms and, as a result I suspect, less ammunition than people in other populous states.
Perhaps this is why an increasing number out-of-state vendors are not working to keep California business in firearms and ammunition. With demand declining while regulation is increasing, in number, restriction, and complexity, it is simply making it more costly pursue a shrinking share of national commerce in firearms and ammunition with California.

I believe California is fighting an economic war on civilian firearms ownership. And, so far, seems to be winning.
And that is what exactly what California and, apparently, the majority of Californians who vote, want. I don't want to believe it, but the numbers don't lie.

We are actually in unusual case and events unseen before, production for the most is near dead stop and what ever has been produced was purchased depleting all Inventory across the nation. This is why sales are dropping off. Nothing to sell. You need to make delivery of gun to log in actual sale. As I have seen in every shop i visited..No sale can be made or DROS submitted until new Inventory is shipped to dealers. The REAL question is how much BACKLOG is there in the pipe line. There might well be 6-9 months of orders to fulfill.

As for California New York or any other Gun Control State, I have already been told, Gun Manufacturers will first full fill the orders to Free States first because its easier to do so. California and New York with all its requirements will come last. Its not the lack of buyers but the regulations that are imposed by the states.

Good thing is LGS in California are getting lots of upfront deposits for orders. This should keep the supply chain going for the next 18 months. If Biden wins it will only increase.
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  #194  
Old 08-02-2020, 7:34 PM
Harry Ono Harry Ono is offline
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
More likely Rís, RINOs and Rís who shifted to NPs.

Trends:
The ďtectonic shiftĒ isnít in numbers, but in labels. Dems continue to wear their label openly. The major correlated (not proven causative) shift is between Rís and NPís.

Over 20 years, Dem registration percentages have held fairly steady
2009: 46.7%
2018: 43.8%

Rep registration. -11.1%
2009: 35.6%
2018: 24.5%

No Pref. +14.2
2009: 12.6%
2018: 26.8%

ďOtherĒ is static.


Best.


In California not many people are advertising they are Republican. Too much risk including Job and Career. But may well be closet Republicans (Independents).
We will see how it all works out in November.
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  #195  
Old 08-03-2020, 7:08 AM
Usmc0844spare Usmc0844spare is offline
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Originally Posted by 9mmContagion View Post

California is turning red this year! If it doesnít, the elections are rigged. Which we already know they are...
Sorry but you are delusional if you believe that a hiccup in a lefties momentary desire to avail themselves of the second amendment is going to completely swing them to vote republican. To them it's just a "oh well, good with the bad" kinda thing.

To them, in terms of overall political thinking, it's not much more important than being told that their favorite brand of micro-brew beer is no longer in production. "Oh well, even if the Azure Ale Super-Brew is no longer being made, their Micro Hop Infused Angler Ale is still pretty good."
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  #196  
Old 08-03-2020, 8:31 AM
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Since the technology for it does not exist it might be awhile before one makes it onto the list.

And if ONE DOES make it onto the list we can simply boycott that company. Same thing that happened to that "smart gun" that we never hear about anymore. Because just like micro-stamping it is easy to work around it.
Look for some revolvers to be added to the roster to get rid of those pesky semiautomatic handguns.

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Originally Posted by 9mmContagion View Post
I help out in a gun shop on the weekends and have to say that I think those numbers are stifled due to the roster. Think about how many 9mm caliber firearms are on the roster. In these times, it is clear to see that 9mm has become the most sought after handgun caliber on the market. Now take in to consideration the backlog the manufacturers are facing. They canít make enough guns that are CA Roster approved. While the rest of the US can purchase whatever the hell they want in 9mm, even settle for another caliber if the 9mm is not in stock.

I believe, if the roster was not in place, CA would be the number one per capita. Do you know how many people have walked in to a gun shop and walked out with nothing because they couldnít purchase the 1 of ~20 handguns in 9mm that are on roster? Sure availability may be a problem, but free states have the Orion to buy 20x the inventory. Not to mention we can only buy 1 in every 30 days.

California is turning red this year! If it doesnít, the elections are rigged. Which we already know they are...
Iím pretty sure California gun sales are depressed based on a number of factors including low inventory, inconvenience of even browsing in a gun store and the roster. I have numerous neighbors that want to purchase a firearm, but they canít get what the want. A few people were completely shocked by the entire process of being a first time buyer, added costs and waiting time.
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  #197  
Old 08-03-2020, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
Look for some revolvers to be added to the roster to get rid of those pesky semiautomatic handguns.



Iím pretty sure California gun sales are depressed based on a number of factors including low inventory, inconvenience of even browsing in a gun store and the roster. I have numerous neighbors that want to purchase a firearm, but they canít get what the want. A few people were completely shocked by the entire process of being a first time buyer, added costs and waiting time.
It's definitely the roster that is restricting sales. I work in a shop here in CA and believe me when I say that people are still walking in with NO CLUE as to what and why the handgun roster is. All they see is guns in a case and they must be available, then they're educated on why they can not buy those particular pistols and how they don't meet the state's certification requirements. Then it's always a joy watching their reactions when you explain to them what the roster is and what it takes to get a handgun certified to sell.

And I agree with your comment. With the amount of new gun folks coming in to buy, they're shocked that they have to wait 10 days, pay an arm and a leg for fees and are also showing frustrations with required documentations (like providing a birth certificate or passport if they do not have a real ID).
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  #198  
Old 08-04-2020, 6:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
Look for some revolvers to be added to the roster to get rid of those pesky semiautomatic handguns.
Iím pretty sure California gun sales are depressed based on a number of factors including low inventory, inconvenience of even browsing in a gun store and the roster. I have numerous neighbors that want to purchase a firearm, but they canít get what the want. A few people were completely shocked by the entire process of being a first time buyer, added costs and waiting time.
The low inventory is artificially created by The Roster. As my per capita-by-state numbers showed, people in many of the other 49 have no issues getting the pistols they want. The fact that in most states, a purchases can purchase as often as they want, while the 30-day delay in California for a second purchase significantly reduces sales. Of course manufacturers knows this, so they send the bulk of the pistols (and now long guns) to free states.

It make business sense: you limit supply to a state that rations access to every 30 days, and increase supply to states where demand not regulations on sales drives actual sales.
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  #199  
Old 08-04-2020, 7:02 AM
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In California not many people are advertising they are Republican. Too much risk including Job and Career. But may well be closet Republicans (Independents).
We will see how it all works out in November.
Yes. My wife and I are Grey Conservatives (like The Grey Man).

We give little outward indication to the public and work-related contacts of our political beliefs and so blend in with the flock of liberal Sheeple. The intimidation of the left media and mob has not dissuaded people from their values, it has forced them to become covert and, in my case ,made me even more resolute and determined.
To paraphrase a famous Hollywood actress...Quietly voting conservative is the best revenge.
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  #200  
Old 08-04-2020, 8:41 PM
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I smile when I vote Republican. Always have enjoyed it.

Also like to vote no on almost every bond since most end up on my property taxes. There are 5 right now, with two more on the ballot that these morons will vote yes on just because the title sounds good.
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