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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:50 AM
drifts1 drifts1 is offline
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Default Off-roster SSE handguns no longer allowed on CA CCW permits.

According to Kern Sherriff Dept, the DOJ recently started denying handguns that are registered as "single shot" to be listed on ccw permits. If your off-roster handgun was obtained thru SSE and is registered as a "single shot", you'll need to re-register it as a semi-auto before it can be added to permit.

Heard it yesterday from two people that said their SSE handguns were not included on their updated permits. Today I went in to pick up my renewal permit and my SSE was not listed. The deputy at the window advised of the above, just like the two individuals said.

CA continues to find ways to bend us over
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:11 AM
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Been that way in Placer for a long time. You can try a pawn/redeem which has been used to get them listed as semi auto in AFS. I don't know if you can just 're-register them as semi auto' on your own though.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:10 AM
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Its' new to us here in Kern, as many of us have had our off-roster guns on our permits for some time now. Yes, the "pawn" route is the way to go. Even the deputy suggested it.
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Old 06-21-2019, 6:00 AM
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Yeah we had to do that in Berdoo from the get-go. The pawn-return thing is easy enough but it will eat up ten days or so and a few bucks.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:49 PM
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Anyone know if that’s the case in OC? Haven’t had an issue yet.
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2019, 2:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shompy View Post
Anyone know if that’s the case in OC? Haven’t had an issue yet.
Just had a customer where Orange County Sheriff kicked back there for this. Brookhurst Pawn in Anaheim can handle the Pawn Redemption to fix the AFS record I was told.
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Old 06-27-2019, 2:16 PM
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Im probably going to get some heat for this - but do you have a family member that can PPT them to you?

Hey Bro- here you go a gift from me to you
Hey you want it back
Sure - lets PPT it - see you tomorrow.
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Old 06-27-2019, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
Im probably going to get some heat for this - but do you have a family member that can PPT them to you?

Hey Bro- here you go a gift from me to you
Hey you want it back
Sure - lets PPT it - see you tomorrow.
Way too much!

Go to FFL pawn shop. Pawn for $50. Come back a few days later, pay back everything, then re DROS. Easy day.
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
Im probably going to get some heat for this - but do you have a family member that can PPT them to you?

Hey Bro- here you go a gift from me to you
Hey you want it back
Sure - lets PPT it - see you tomorrow.
Hey, Bro, unless the family member is in direct line (child, parent, grandparent) your “gift” to a “Bro” has to be processed through an FFL with a 10-day wait.
Then, you have to do it again.

So, you’re in it for two dealer fees and a 20-day waiting period.

Of course, if your Bro decides to keep it.......
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 06-28-2019 at 8:46 AM..
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Hey, Bro, unless the family member is in direct line (child, parent, grandparent) your “gift” to a “Bro” has to be processed through an FFL with a 10-day wait.
Then, you have to do it again.

So, you’re in it for two dealer fees and a 20-day waiting period.

Of course, if your Bro decides to keep it.......
Yep, that's another way. PPT to friend, wait 10 days, PPT back to yourself wait another 10 days. 20 days isn't bad. But, the pawnshop route that someone posted seems better.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
Im probably going to get some heat for this - but do you have a family member that can PPT them to you?
Actually.........If you are Married............

the parent child gift relationship registration applies to married couples as well

HOWEVER, an actually PPT will get the update in the system MUCH FASTER.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2019, 8:20 AM
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The bureaucracy expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy as always. Frustrating. Not the end of the world, but frustrating.
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Old 06-24-2019, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifts1 View Post
According to Kern Sherriff Dept, the DOJ recently started denying handguns that are registered as "single shot" to be listed on ccw permits. If your off-roster handgun was obtained thru SSE and is registered as a "single shot", you'll need to re-register it as a semi-auto before it can be added to permit.

Heard it yesterday from two people that said their SSE handguns were not included on their updated permits. Today I went in to pick up my renewal permit and my SSE was not listed. The deputy at the window advised of the above, just like the two individuals said.

CA continues to find ways to bend us over
Something doesn’t line up, here. The statute limits DOJ involvement in CCW issuance:
Quote:
26185. (a) (1) The fingerprints of each applicant shall be taken and two copies on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice shall be forwarded to the department.
(2) Upon receipt of the fingerprints and the fee as prescribed in Section 26190, the department shall promptly furnish the forwarding licensing authority a report of all data and information pertaining to any applicant of which there is a record in its office, including information as to whether the person is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(3) No license shall be issued by any licensing authority until after receipt of the report from the department.

And,

26195. (a) A license under this article shall not be issued if the Department of Justice determines that the person is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
Neither section grants DOJ authority to deny or approve an application. That sits firmly with the IA.

So, what’s really going on?
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 06-24-2019 at 5:26 PM..
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Something doesn’t line up, here. The statute limits DOJ involvement in CCW issuance: Neither section grants DOJ authority to deny or approve an application. That sits firmly with the IA.

So, what’s really going on?
Obviously IA minions blaming DOJ for their bosses policy change. Bureaucratic finger pointing is nothing new.

Turd brained FFLs counter monkeys do it all the time.
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2019, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Obviously IA minions blaming DOJ for their bosses policy change. Bureaucratic finger pointing is nothing new.
Exactly.
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2019, 5:22 PM
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Riverside is the same way caliber must match DOJ records.

Pawn / Redeem is the way to go.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2019, 6:48 PM
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Ventura allowed SSE last year, anyone know if it changed? I know at one time they were not allowing SSE, then they were, I hadn’t heard of any change.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2019, 2:57 AM
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OP needs to change his “MSNBC” headline to “Kern County not allowing SSE for CCW”

Click bait.
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2019, 9:18 AM
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Can someone explain how the pawn/redeem process works? One of the handguns I want to put on my CCW License (If approved.. interview is scheduled for next year) was purchased as a single shot.
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Old 06-27-2019, 1:18 PM
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Can anyone confirm this with sac county? I currently have 2 that was SSE and plan on renewing them in a couple weeks.
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  #21  
Old 06-27-2019, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sirr6 View Post
Can anyone confirm this with sac county? I currently have 2 that was SSE and plan on renewing them in a couple weeks.
Confirm what?
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Old 06-27-2019, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Confirm what?
If sac still allows sse pistols. 2 of mine are sse, and my renewal course is in a couple weeks
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sirr6 View Post
If sac still allows sse pistols. 2 of mine are sse, and my renewal course is in a couple weeks
https://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Org.../SIIB/CCW.aspx

Friend renewed back in March or April and didn’t have a problem putting SSE pistols on CCW.
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Old 06-28-2019, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATEWA View Post
https://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Org.../SIIB/CCW.aspx

Friend renewed back in March or April and didn’t have a problem putting SSE pistols on CCW.
Thanks!!
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2019, 3:45 PM
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Default Single shot exemption denial

I am trying to find out if true or not, but I was told Kern County, maybe the State, is denying CCW renewal of guns that were purchased SSE. Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks!
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2019, 5:37 PM
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Very common in some counties and you are not the first to mention new counties implementing this policy recently.

If you have one, pawn and redeem it or buy another PPT.

EDIT - looks like this thread got merged with another.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2019, 4:49 AM
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If Kern county allows your spouses handguns on your permit ( if you are married ) you could also transfer it to her.
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Old 07-16-2019, 6:04 AM
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Butte county never did this and I had SSE PPQs on my permit before I sold them. Could never understand the logic of this. What difference does in make how it was DROSed? If you go back far enough, are there not handguns that were not required to be registered? So, do these sheriffs not allow such unregistered handguns?
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Old 07-16-2019, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Butte county never did this and I had SSE PPQs on my permit before I sold them. Could never understand the logic of this. What difference does in make how it was DROSed? If you go back far enough, are there not handguns that were not required to be registered? So, do these sheriffs not allow such unregistered handguns?
CA handgun registration started around the same time the CA may issue CCW system went into effect, 1924.

CA CCW laws requires the permit to list the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the handguns that are approved to be carried.

It used to be that unregistered handguns that were listed on a permit were registered by the LE agency processing the permit application.
^So, it didn't matter if the handgun was registered or not. Because, in the end it would be registered.

Most LE agencies dropped doing this around the time that CA passed laws requiring all valid CA CCW permit holders to be in a centralized database to make it easier for a LEO to check if a permit was valid or not.
^Old method to check if permit was valid was to call the issuing agency and have them verify it, which could take hours to do. Current method is a record check on CLETS-AFS, which takes seconds/minutes to do.

Because of the current reliance on AFS to ensure everything is legal and correct, a AFS record mismatch now causes issuing agencies to not approve the handgun until it is corrected in AFS.
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Old 07-24-2019, 3:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CA handgun registration started around the same time the CA may issue CCW system went into effect, 1924.

CA CCW laws requires the permit to list the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the handguns that are approved to be carried.

It used to be that unregistered handguns that were listed on a permit were registered by the LE agency processing the permit application.
^So, it didn't matter if the handgun was registered or not. Because, in the end it would be registered.

Most LE agencies dropped doing this around the time that CA passed laws requiring all valid CA CCW permit holders to be in a centralized database to make it easier for a LEO to check if a permit was valid or not.
^Old method to check if permit was valid was to call the issuing agency and have them verify it, which could take hours to do. Current method is a record check on CLETS-AFS, which takes seconds/minutes to do.

Because of the current reliance on AFS to ensure everything is legal and correct, a AFS record mismatch now causes issuing agencies to not approve the handgun until it is corrected in AFS.
Thanks for the explanation. It still does not make sense to me, because nobody is going to carry a SSE pistol in the configuration it was in when it was DROSed. SSE was merely a way to get around the roster. So, as long as the serial numbers match and the caliber of the carried weapon is the same as on the permit, I fail to see an actual problem. But, of course, it is not my decision. Again, thanks for the explanation.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:39 AM
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Sac county still allows them. Picked up my renewal yesterday, was also told they are not issuing the cards anymore.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:10 AM
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Sac county still allows them. Picked up my renewal yesterday, was also told they are not issuing the cards anymore.
Not issuing what cards? They have only issued the rice paper license.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:22 PM
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Not issuing what cards? They have only issued the rice paper license.
Counter guy said they are no longer pursuing the drivers license card and will only be giving the laminate piece of paper.
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  #34  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:21 AM
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Any other FFL's in on this thread? I'm curious as to thoughts on individuals PPT'ing to themselves. Yes I know, at first glance it seems fishy but I cannot find any verbiage in Penal Code that states it MUST be 2 separate individuals (only that it must be FTF and both Buyer and Seller must be CA residents). I'm viewing this like the assault weapon "re-registration" requirement...owner is simply re-registering it to themselves (except in this case in order to correct/update the sub category of the handgun; was SSE, now semi auto). Not a straw purchase since "Buyer" is truly "purchasing" it for themselves. Why could this be better than the pawn option? $35 vs $50, and in many cases our shops here in Bakersfield require a 30 day hold before they'll submit/process anything. So PPT could be cheaper and much faster, especially of the individual has multiple handguns they want to process at the same time.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:46 AM
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Not to thread jack, but thinking about this.

Can this be done at a gun shop (Register single shot as semi) when buying another firearm to save the DROS fees ?
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:03 PM
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Good question, best answer is "I don't know". My PPT question in itself is one that will likely generate various answers, but as an FFL I'm hoping other dealers or legal "gurus" (I know most in this forum are not attorneys) can tell me why it CANNOT be done. It may simply come down to each individual FFL/shop and whether or not they're willing to do it (much like the old SSE process itself...some could/would do it, many would not).

Would I do it? We'll see if I can get some fair, specific details as to why I shouldn't. However, I would still charge the customer ($35 for the first one per DOJ guidelines, and say $25 for each additional). No limit to number of handguns one can PPT at any given time so this could be a legitimate scenario.
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Old 07-23-2019, 1:25 PM
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so what you are saying is that you can't use a thompson encore as a ccw
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Old 07-23-2019, 2:53 PM
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so what you are saying is that you can't use a thompson encore as a ccw
Didn’t even think of using my .223 Contender as a CCW..
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