Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Gunsmithing & How To
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Gunsmithing & How To Pro, Amateur & WECSOG and Tutorials, Guides & OLL Build Instructions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-14-2019, 6:18 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default Mylar tape to protect from scratches?

Hey guys,

I seemed to recall a gunsmith telling me he uses Mylar tape to protect a gun barrel from scratches when it is cinched down in a shop vise. Is there a specific tape I need? Is the foil tape used for HVAC insulation good enough?

I have a brand new AR upper whose muzzle device I'm trying to take off. I've dipped it in boiling water for 20 minutes, clamped it in Delrin vise jaws and it spun in the vise. I then torched it with a propane torch until it smoked, and it still spun in the vise. If I get it any hotter, I'm afraid of melting my Delrin vise jaws. I'm thinking of using my aluminum vise jaws but I don't want to scratch my new barrel.

I have a barrel reaction rod coming in the mail, but I kind of want to do it this weekend.

Thanks in advance!


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2019, 7:20 AM
baih777 baih777 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 5,662
iTrader: 121 / 100%
Default

If the muzzle device is on that tight. Do not use a reaction rod to try and loosen.
Make sure that muzzle device is not pinned on.
Is that barrel less than 16 inches ?
Is it a factory installed muzzle device ?
__________________
Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked.
I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows.
I'm Back.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2019, 7:53 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

The barrel is 18 inches, and yes, it’s factory installed. I can’t see a reason why they’d pin and weld it. Is it possible my Delrin vise jaws are just too slippery?


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2019, 8:09 AM
67Cuda's Avatar
67Cuda 67Cuda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,584
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Is it possible my Delrin vise jaws are just too slippery?


.
Delrin is slippery, it's petroleum based.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2019, 8:14 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
Delrin is slippery, it's petroleum based.
Thanks. I guess that is a moment. I'll get some Mylar tape from Home Depot (my new favorite store now) and use the aluminum vise jaws.


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2019, 8:27 AM
AlHO1966 AlHO1966 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 494
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Mechforce - Professional Grade Heavy Duty Barrel Vise, Barrel Surface Protection Design https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HU4GNSG..._sF1kDbGJYF1F1
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2019, 8:31 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHO1966 View Post
Mechforce - Professional Grade Heavy Duty Barrel Vise, Barrel Surface Protection Design https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HU4GNSG..._sF1kDbGJYF1F1
Now, that is a nice barrel vise!



But, I'm too cheap and besides, I'd like to do the job today. Maybe I'll locate some sort of leather to protect the barrel...


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:35 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 56,432
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I'll get some Mylar tape from Home Depot (my new favorite store now) and use the aluminum vise jaws.
Even better than mylar is plain paper.
Wrap a single non-overlapping layer around the barrel and use the aluminum blocks.
Make the vise as tight as you can.
Then get it tighter.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:31 AM
baih777 baih777 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 5,662
iTrader: 121 / 100%
Default

I would heat it up again. Hot. But outside. Not in the vise.
__________________
Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked.
I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows.
I'm Back.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2019, 11:26 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

I gave up for now. I tightened aluminum barrel clamps with a 2' lead pipe extension on the vise handle and again heated it up until the CLP on the barrel was smoking. The barrel still spun. It's still too hot to touch to see if Randall's paper suggestion protected the barrel. I'll find out after lunch.

I wonder if the barrel where I clamped has a taper that I can't see, such that the clamped part is actually a very narrow portion. I'll mike it after lunch. If that is not the case, I'm sending the upper back to Larue to have the brake removed.

I'm too much of a klutz to try to clamp a smoking hot barrel in a vise, so am afraid to try your suggestion, baih777


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:17 PM
AlHO1966 AlHO1966 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 494
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Now, that is a nice barrel vise!



But, I'm too cheap and besides, I'd like to do the job today. Maybe I'll locate some sort of leather to protect the barrel...


.
It’s been well worth the purchase for me, haven’t had an issue since buying. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-14-2019, 4:12 PM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default



I guess the entire barrel tapers from the barrel nut to the muzzle end, so when I try to cinch it down at any spot, only the parts of the vise jaw closest to the nut is biting.

Looks like either I have to invest in a dedicated barrel vise like AIHO1966 posted above, or I'll have to have a real gunsmith do this for me.


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2019, 4:27 PM
tradecraft tradecraft is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,377
iTrader: 347 / 100%
Default

Beanz, if you're in the bay area and really want to use a reaction rod this weekend, you can borrow mine just send me a PM. However yours sounds more difficult than your typical case...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-14-2019, 4:36 PM
NoHeavyHitter NoHeavyHitter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in 7B
Posts: 2,876
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Even better than mylar is plain paper.
Wrap a single non-overlapping layer around the barrel and use the aluminum blocks.
Make the vise as tight as you can.
Then get it tighter.
This is how I clamp barrels after trying many ways that just didn't hold.

When you really have to apply some torque, I use a high-quality piece of stationary as the rag-fiber isn't as "slippery" as cheaper white notebook paper. The aluminum jaws very likely will leave some marks, especially if the barrel is parked.

I have good luck removing aluminum smears from park using a fine brass-bristle brush. Once the aluminum is gone, I use household ammonia to remove the brass residue from the park, leaving no evidence of work having been done.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-14-2019, 4:53 PM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradecraft View Post
Beanz, if you're in the bay area and really want to use a reaction rod this weekend, you can borrow mine just send me a PM. However yours sounds more difficult than your typical case...
Thanks for the offer, but with the way this weekend is going, the barrel extension would come off before the muzzle brake LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeavyHitter View Post
This is how I clamp barrels after trying many ways that just didn't hold.

When you really have to apply some torque, I use a high-quality piece of stationary as the rag-fiber isn't as "slippery" as cheaper white notebook paper. The aluminum jaws very likely will leave some marks, especially if the barrel is parked.

I have good luck removing aluminum smears from park using a fine brass-bristle brush. Once the aluminum is gone, I use household ammonia to remove the brass residue from the park, leaving no evidence of work having been done.
I used some package wrapping paper that I thought was sturdy, but not aware my barrel had a taper, the aluminum jaws still broke through the paper at the parts closest to the barrel nut and left large marks that at first I thought was bare barrel metal Only when my cold blueing did not take I realized it was aluminum. A vigorous scrubbing with some 3M pot scrubber got rid of all that and the barrel underneath was pristine!

As my mother used to say, quit while you're ahead. So I did


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-14-2019, 5:27 PM
NoHeavyHitter NoHeavyHitter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in 7B
Posts: 2,876
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I used some package wrapping paper that I thought was sturdy, but not aware my barrel had a taper, the aluminum jaws still broke through the paper at the parts closest to the barrel nut and left large marks that at first I thought was bare barrel metal Only when my cold blueing did not take I realized it was aluminum. A vigorous scrubbing with some 3M pot scrubber got rid of all that and the barrel underneath was pristine!
You know, I never tried using a pot scrubber.. I just used the brass brush since it was right there in the shop. Using a scrubber could essentially eliminate the step on using ammonia to go after the brass marks. Thanks for posting your method, I'll give it a whirl.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-14-2019, 5:29 PM
baih777 baih777 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 5,662
iTrader: 121 / 100%
Default

Can you post a few pics.
__________________
Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked.
I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows.
I'm Back.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-14-2019, 6:51 PM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,843
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
Can you post a few pics.
I wish I had taken pics

I was so wrapped up with getting it done (and end up didn't)


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-07-2019, 6:10 AM
CrowToad CrowToad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 199
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

I've used this for installing/removing AR 15 brakes and barrels.
https://www.primaryarms.com/wheeler-...l-clamp-672286
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-07-2019, 6:55 AM
K001's Avatar
K001 K001 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Canyon County - 2A State!
Posts: 1,004
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Strips of leather works well to hold barrels in a vice...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-16-2019, 12:42 PM
Awesomesauce Awesomesauce is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 272
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I used the same method as black 306. Plus a cheap pair of leather gloves at the harbor freight and some scissors yields two large patches from the palm area. Very cost effective. WECSOG!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-16-2019, 5:30 PM
RustyIron's Avatar
RustyIron RustyIron is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: La Habra, California
Posts: 564
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Even better than mylar is plain paper.
Wrap a single non-overlapping layer around the barrel and use the aluminum blocks.
I know you wrote this a long time ago, but it's still true. It's a hint given to me by my friend Don, probably the finest machinist I've ever met. He's long gone now.

Often when I had a machining problem, I'd ask Don for advice. Eventually I learned that whatever challenges I encountered were the same challenges he encountered--except he knew how to control those challenges before they became challenges.

One day he imparted the wisdom of using a piece of paper in the vise jaws. It wasn't long until I had a problem of a piece walking out of my milling machine vise. I remembered what Don said, so I tore off a couple pieces, put them on the vise jaws, and my work stuck to the vise like it was welded in place.

Now it's SOP for me to have paper readily available at the mill. I use those scratch pads that the realtors drop off at the front door. Sometimes I even use the paper in the lathe chuck.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-16-2019, 8:02 PM
67Cuda's Avatar
67Cuda 67Cuda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,584
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post

It wasn't long until I had a problem of a piece walking out of my milling machine vise. I remembered what Don said, so I tore off a couple pieces, put them on the vise jaws, and my work stuck to the vise like it was welded in place.
Using a piece of paper on something that is not parallel while clamping down in a quality vise will fill the gap to hold it.
If you need to do this often, there may be a problem with the vise your using or your machining practices or the machine itself.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-16-2019, 8:09 PM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Bay of Los Angeles
Posts: 18,384
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

What size/ type wrench are you using on the brake?

Do you have enough leverage to break the brake free?


A smaller wrench is possibly going to transfer the torque to the upper

A larger - longer wrench smacked with a hammer can get enough torque to release the tension from crush washer or whatever was used to attach the brake
__________________
Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
(thanks to Jeff Cooper)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-16-2019, 8:41 PM
M1NM M1NM is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: West Covina
Posts: 7,760
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Put a wrench on it and smack the end of the wrench with a 2lb hammer. It'll come right off even if you are just holding it in your hands.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-16-2019, 9:05 PM
RustyIron's Avatar
RustyIron RustyIron is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: La Habra, California
Posts: 564
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
Using a piece of paper on something that is not parallel while clamping down in a quality vise will fill the gap to hold it.
If you need to do this often, there may be a problem with the vise your using or your machining practices or the machine itself.
Um... thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-18-2019, 8:42 AM
Forestgnome's Avatar
Forestgnome Forestgnome is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 213
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K001 View Post
Strips of leather works well to hold barrels in a vice...
Leather is the traditional gripper in a barrel vise. A little rosin powder can help.
__________________
California Redneck
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-28-2019, 3:35 PM
Scota4570 Scota4570 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,703
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Tape get slippery. Leather is squishy. Aluminum does not give enough. Lead is too soft. Plastic is slippery. What else? ....

Just use fitted hardwood blocks, like maple and some rosin powder. Really.

If you are using a vice with smooth steel jaws, on a square object, by all means rosin up a business card and slip it in there.

Last edited by Scota4570; 08-28-2019 at 3:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:46 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy