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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 06-28-2019, 4:34 AM
George W George W is offline
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I doubt a $500 generator will have the ability to put out 220 volts.
Most of the generators in the $500 range only put out 20-30amps of 120volts .
if the generator isn't putting out 220 volts your only going to be feeding half of the bussing in your panel board using the above method.
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  #42  
Old 06-28-2019, 5:11 AM
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^^ FUD do your homework lots of 500 buck gensets put out 220 volts
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  #43  
Old 06-28-2019, 9:04 AM
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If you know an electrician (or if you have some electrical experience), you can install a 2nd main breaker that takes the power from the Gen and sends it to all the places that are currently powered by the electric company. You need to be sure to leave your Generator breaker off whenever the electric company breaker is on, when you loose power make sure you turn off the electric company breaker before turning on the generator breaker, and when going back, turn off the generator breaker before turning on the electric company breaker.

This is completely illegal, and if you forget/mess up and send power down the line and harm someone you'll probably do time over it - so if your going to consider this, make sure you know what you are doing. There are ways to rig your panel so that one breaker cannot be turned on while the other is on, but it still won't be legal.

The generator breaker can be mounted in a different location (like inside the garage as opposed to on the outside wall).
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  #44  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George W View Post
I doubt a $500 generator will have the ability to put out 220 volts.
Most of the generators in the $500 range only put out 20-30amps of 120volts .
if the generator isn't putting out 220 volts your only going to be feeding half of the bussing in your panel board using the above method.
You can feed 120V on both sides of your bus with a $500 gen just fine. Most Generators have a duplex outlet. One outlet on one leg and one on the other leg. Not sure what you're talking about above. You don't need 220V to power both legs. You're limited to the duplex outlet amperage though keep that in mind. Also keep in mind, you don't want to be feeding 15 amp circuits with a 20A output. You take the risk of causing a fire.
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  #45  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:17 AM
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Also keep in mind if you're feeding from a gen duplex outlet to both legs of your load center, won't give you 240V. It will only give you 120V on both legs.
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  #46  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ FUD do your homework lots of 500 buck gensets put out 220 volts
That may be true, although I don't know of any from a quality manufacturer.

But please identify a $500 generator that will supply enough AMPS to run an electrical panel.
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:02 AM
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I love my generator. I think it's made by Murphy. Every time there is an outage I wait a few hours to see if it comes back on. After a few hours I go get the generator out of the shed, drag it up to the house and

BINGO the power comes back on.
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  #48  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:02 AM
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My 2000W gen powers my 100A load center fine. Now powering all the circuits, that's a different story.
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  #49  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ FUD do your homework lots of 500 buck gensets put out 220 volts
please give me the model # of the $500 generator your talking about that will put out 220
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  #50  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George W View Post
please give me the model # of the $500 generator your talking about that will put out 220
https://www.harborfreight.com/electr...ion-63964.html

Not a Honda but better than nothing...I've been running a 4k Harbor Freight for well over 10 years waiting for it to die. I found a used honda EM6500 so its my main but the HF keeps running. We had a big power outage over the winter and it was nice to have a spare to loan out. It ran for 8 days almost continuously with only fuel and and oil change mid way.

Last edited by luckylogger6; 06-28-2019 at 11:40 AM..
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  #51  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George W View Post
please give me the model # of the $500 generator your talking about that will put out 220
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Briggs-S...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

only 3500 watts, but with 220 output backfed through a dryer outlet, it will feed both buss bars and shouldnt have an issue keeping the fridge and a couple light and outlet circuits live. I wouldnt run the A/C, dryer, stove, electric water heater, or anything else with a large draw.
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  #52  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by George W View Post
please give me the model # of the $500 generator your talking about that will put out 220
https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tool...4806_200664806

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
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  #53  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:59 AM
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Just for reference too I believe it's called "output" not put out.

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  #54  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:04 PM
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No chance, I'm going to be in the extension cord camp with this one.

Also I was looking at doing the exact same thing just in the potential collapse of the economy or worse, and found the same costs involved with the exception of my neighbors and electrician and was going to give me a screaming deal for closer to the three to $500 range
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  #55  
Old 06-29-2019, 6:47 AM
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following this thread. Trying to find options for my renters up in Georgetown where PG&E likes to play games.
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  #56  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DeadWhiteGoose View Post
following this thread. Trying to find options for my renters up in Georgetown where PG&E likes to play games.
Haha. Options for me: Solar, Batteries, Generator, etc. Options for renter: Candles & flashlights!
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  #57  
Old 06-29-2019, 12:01 PM
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There was never a question of a 500 buck gen running whole panel. It was about a 500 buck gen that supplies 220 volt.kinda dumb for a lawyer. (LOL)
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  #58  
Old 06-29-2019, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George W View Post
I doubt a $500 generator will have the ability to put out 220 volts.
Most of the generators in the $500 range only put out 20-30amps of 120volts .
if the generator isn't putting out 220 volts your only going to be feeding half of the bussing in your panel board using the above method.
My first generator on Guam was a 5k unit. It cost $525 in the early 90's. It had a 240v out outlet. I built the 50 foot extension cord. It powered everything in my house, backfed into the dryer port, minus AC and stove. I could not use those at all.

I eventually upgraded to a 10k and could run everything plus AC or stove. One or the other. It was hooked up the same way.

Just kill the main breaker prior to hooking up.

Last edited by GuamSAR; 06-29-2019 at 9:14 PM..
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  #59  
Old 06-30-2019, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
Seeing as how you need anywhere from 10-15kw to run most/all things in a home, you can power over 1000 homes. Are you sure it’s not a 16,000 watt generator (16kw)? A 16,000kw generator would be a 16,000,000 watt generator and here I thought my 10,000 watt was sufficient
Whoops... 16,000 watt

I’m a generator newb.. decent size to run a house?

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  #60  
Old 06-30-2019, 6:34 PM
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I never understood why people would have a backup generator hooked up to a fuel source they can not control. Go gas or diesel or propane. Just have enough fuel on hand to cover your emergency needs. Also have multiple generators is a good idea. Honda eu2000 are good enough to keep your freezers and refrigerator running plus your lights on. You just need to run it 4-6 hours per day. Fuel goes a long way.
Yep. No need to run the generator non-stop.
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  #61  
Old 06-30-2019, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gorn5150 View Post
I was just pricing natural gas gens. Is there much difference between them and propane?
Only when an earthquake knocks out the natural gas lines. On site tank is the way to go.
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  #62  
Old 06-30-2019, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
16,000kW generator?¹ That is 16 megawatts! That is the output of a pretty respectable smaller-output power plant. Seems overkill for your house.
Kilowatts not Megawatts. My old Bluebird Wanderlodge came from the factory with a 12.5Kw gennie powered by a 4 cyl diesel. Motorhome had a 250 gallon fuel tank. I always figured that was my back up until I sold it. Now I have 9Kw available from 2 gen sets.
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  #63  
Old 06-30-2019, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
Whoops... 16,000 watt

I’m a generator newb.. decent size to run a house?

Depends on the house, of course, but 16KW might easily suit.

Here's an estimate page from a commercial buy-a-generator site: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect...Generator.html
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  #64  
Old 06-30-2019, 8:09 PM
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Interlock Kit.

Safe.
Legal.
Easy.
Inexpensive.

https://www.interlockkit.com/
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  #65  
Old 07-01-2019, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Depends on the house, of course, but 16KW might easily suit.

Here's an estimate page from a commercial buy-a-generator site: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect...Generator.html
Looks like it does quite a bit including two 4-ton AC units.. thanks
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  #66  
Old 07-01-2019, 8:13 AM
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“Originally Posted by gorn5150
I was just pricing natural gas gens. Is there much difference between them and propane?
Propane is more 'energy-dense' - for a given load and time, a gen will use less propane than natural gas.”


While this is true, you never run out of natural gas—and it is cheaper. With propane you have to keep refilling the tank.
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  #67  
Old 07-01-2019, 11:13 AM
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Pretty sure it runs out most every major earthquake when the lines brake.

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Originally Posted by RobinGoodfellow View Post
“Originally Posted by gorn5150


While this is true, you never run out of natural gas—and it is cheaper. With propane you have to keep refilling the tank.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGoodfellow View Post
“Originally Posted by gorn5150
I was just pricing natural gas gens. Is there much difference between them and propane?
Propane is more 'energy-dense' - for a given load and time, a gen will use less propane than natural gas.”


While this is true, you never run out of natural gas—and it is cheaper. With propane you have to keep refilling the tank.
This is the reason I say you need a dual fuel generator.
Where ever there is a earthquake or fire area that has had major damage. They shut off the natural gas.
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  #69  
Old 07-01-2019, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
Pretty sure it runs out most every major earthquake when the lines brake.
I've been through a lot of earthquakes in the last 60+ years and never had a gas line break.
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Old 07-01-2019, 4:15 PM
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The one at the new house runs off a buried propane tank.. the neighborhood just got gas.

I'm thinking I should run gas to it and keep the propane with some sort of valve to switch to propane if the gas goes out..

It runs on both.. so would it be as simple as a valve to close off the NG and turn on the Propane?
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Old 07-01-2019, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gorn5150 View Post
I've been through a lot of earthquakes in the last 60+ years and never had a gas line break.
I think they are talking about "the big one".. I could say:

I've been through a lot of earthquakes in the last 50 years and never needed to keep extra food on hand

But that doesn't mean the "big one" won't require it..

So I think that was the point.
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Old 07-01-2019, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
The one at the new house runs off a buried propane tank.. the neighborhood just got gas.

I'm thinking I should run gas to it and keep the propane with some sort of valve to switch to propane if the gas goes out..

It runs on both.. so would it be as simple as a valve to close off the NG and turn on the Propane?
It'd be nice, but ... https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/G...sion_LP_NG.php, particularly
Quote:
The gas metering orifices or jets are changed at each burner in the appliance. Natural gas and LP gas do not use the same orifice sizes to achieve the appliance's designed BTU rate at the burner(s). Just changing pressure won't do it and is dangerous. The manufacturer may refer to these parts as "spuds" or "orifices" or "metering jets".
and https://www.hunker.com/13415046/how-...to-natural-gas

But, it seems to be a common question, so it appears there are kits to do that: https://centuryfuelproducts.com/gene...onversion-kits

https://survivalgear4you.com/natural...or-generators/

And it looks like one can buy a Generac with the conversion kit installed, so maybe it is possible to just 'flip a switch'.
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Old 07-01-2019, 4:58 PM
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every time my power gets cut off, i am nowhere close to home, once was two days out. but said cut was only hrs long so lost nothing.
but for shtf, forget any law as there will be none.

sure get a cheap contractor gen. and everybody for 10 miles will know about it.

drop the coin of a quality gen and nobody will know... as long as you keep your mouth shut and the lights off.

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Old 07-01-2019, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It'd be nice, but ... https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/G...sion_LP_NG.php, particularly and https://www.hunker.com/13415046/how-...to-natural-gas

But, it seems to be a common question, so it appears there are kits to do that: https://centuryfuelproducts.com/gene...onversion-kits

https://survivalgear4you.com/natural...or-generators/

And it looks like one can buy a Generac with the conversion kit installed, so maybe it is possible to just 'flip a switch'.
Thanks.. the tank is there.. would be nice to have as a backup.. the big genie is a Generac..

Even if was a "change the orifaces and then flip a switch" that would be doable in an emergency.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:27 AM
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- $1,600 to install a transfer switch doesn't sound outrageous. Cost will vary by region and what exactly you're having installed.

- There are plenty of sub $500 generators that can output 240VAC. I have one. They aren’t as popular though as most people interested in sub $500 generators don’t typically need 240VAC.

- A sub $500 generator most certainly can run a whole house, it just depends on what you run and what is run at the same time. Most electric meters (“Smart” versions) have a display that cycles through information, one being instantaneous power being used. My house during the day and typical usage hangs around 1 kW. Running ACs, electric dryer, will spike it to quite a lot more. Appliances that have compressors and other inductive loads (ACs, fridge/freezers, water pumps, etc) have a higher surge current on startup. A safe rule of thumb is typically twice the “running” wattage.

- A 16kW generator is overkill for a "typical" household. Everyone has different power needs and should size their generator depending on their own unique situation. I can run my house on my sub $500 generator with 3650W running (not using a central AC, dryer, welding, etc).

- Non-inverting generators tend to handle startup surges more robustly than inverting types. I know because I fried my Yamaha 2kW inverting generator's main board playing around with max loads - so much for internal surge protection.

- Gasoline types are fine if you can store the fuel. Propane is obviously easier to store fuel.

- Backfeeding with suicide cords does work, but illegal and dangerous to oneself and others if you don't know what you're doing. For these reasons, it's prudent not to do it. It's probably not the opportune time to have a medical emergency or house fire DURING a widespread power outage on Red Flag days.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
I think they are talking about "the big one".. I could say:

I've been through a lot of earthquakes in the last 50 years and never needed to keep extra food on hand

But that doesn't mean the "big one" won't require it..

So I think that was the point.
He said he was pretty sure it ran out on every major earthquake. Not the "big one" that hasn't happened.
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  #77  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:10 PM
NATEWA NATEWA is offline
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SMUD customer. Water heater and stove on propane. Well water (electric).

Had an electrician come out and wire up a manual switch for our well pump. After running generator to take showers and filling up water containers for the toilet and drinking/cooking, I’ll disconnect generator and hook up to the refrigerator/freezers and battery pack. Battery pack (charged up) will charge cell phones, run a light and open garage doors. We have a small casita with small air conditioner that we can go to if it gets crazy hot.

I’ve tested it a couple of times and all is well.


$300-400 to electrician and champion propane generator was $900. $300-400 in propane. I need to buy a 100lb tank. Currently have 8-10, 20 lb tanks. Propane guy fills them when they run out (use 2-3 for bbq and heaters).

Texted our propane guy. 100lb tanks require a special fitting and hose. They look like a PIA to move around and refill. Since generator has bbq tank style connection and is low to the ground (100 lb tanks are tall), I’m going to pick up a few of these. He said tanks should be stored outside, in the shade. I’ve been storing them in the garage.

FlameKing YSN-301 Propane Tank-30 Pound Refillable Steel Cylinder with Type 1 Overflow Protection Device Valve-DOT and TC Compliant, 30 lb, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003UHVVV2..._Mt8gDbYACPF4X

Last edited by NATEWA; 07-02-2019 at 1:04 PM.. Reason: Added link
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  #78  
Old 07-02-2019, 6:53 PM
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G-forceJunkie G-forceJunkie is online now
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Your lucky then. Lost gas service in Northridge earthquack, fulley expect to loos it again in the next large one. My point is building an emergency backup system that is not stand alone and relys on luck to work after an event is dumb.

and
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorn5150 View Post
I've been through a lot of earthquakes in the last 60+ years and never had a gas line break.
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  #79  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:53 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Not sure why you would bother connecting a $500 generator to your panel. Just grab some extension cords - because you aren't going to run much off a $500 generator.



16,000kw?

Honda 2000 generator runs for about 10-11 hours on a single gallon of gas. Runs satellite television, lights, and satelite internet for the wife and kids (a must have). We lose power for days on end at our cabin during snow storms. Use Coleman stove to cook meals. If we lived in a warmer environment, we might consider going with a Generac system, or similar. Not needed for only a couple of days.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:49 AM
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Dutch3 Dutch3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
That may be true, although I don't know of any from a quality manufacturer.

But please identify a $500 generator that will supply enough AMPS to run an electrical panel.
My $300 Champion does it just fine. 3500/4000W with 240V output.

Connected to my outside main meter panel via a twistlock #6 AWG 4-wire cord and mechanical interlock, it powers my home, well pump, sheds, etc. (within reason).

Obviously, we aren't going to be running the electric clothes dryer when running on the generator. Once, when the fridge, freezer and well pump were all running, I attempted to start the microwave oven and it stalled the generator. I will buy a larger generator at some point, but the point to consider is to keep the loads within reason.

I could have built a mechanical interlock plate in about 15 minutes with stuff I have lying around, but chose to buy the $100 Square D official kit, with the UL stampings and safety labels for liability reasons.

If a $300 unit can do it, a $500 unit could do even better.
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