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  #1  
Old 05-09-2019, 2:02 PM
Thebastard Thebastard is offline
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Default On or off roster transparency

Hey guys, I am new here so forgive me if I am asking in the wrong place or manner. I am looking for some transparency on acquiring a Smith and Wesson Performance Center 327, 2” barrel. SKU 170245

On the California roster it says 170245A

Here is my dilemma, I know 2 stores have it in stock and I can buy it for a significantly higher price, or I can purchase it online for a great price but I can not get a straight answer if it is on or off roster.

I do not want to purchase it online to find out I cannot transfer it once it arrives.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2019, 2:03 PM
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They would need to look under the top strap of the revolver and see if there is an "A" stamped on it
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Old 05-09-2019, 3:44 PM
Thebastard Thebastard is offline
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Okay, thank you. I read that on the roster, however when I called Smith and Wesson’s customer support line the lady was unaware that they even did this to their revolvers.
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2019, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebastard View Post
when I called Smith and Wesson’s customer support line the lady was unaware that they even did this to their revolvers.
Generally speaking, when you call a company with 2000+ employees, the first person who answers the phone is not going to know more than how to transfer you.
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2019, 5:15 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
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To the point, what differences are there in the A and B models, except the likelihood one was drop tested per CA regs. and the other wasn't?

When you go on to S&W's site and select CA compliant guns, the model numbers are not "A and B," they are just the model number.

So do only the proper ones make it to CA and are on roster, and other states get random batches, or just the other variant?

Seems strange that they do this at all. Why not one model for both since roster addition for wheel guns isn't a huge issue, currently?

I've been looking for a 4" 500 Mag. for a little while and, for example, Sportsman's Warehouse lists that model as restricted to other states and doesn't sell it in CA, yet the model number is the same as on S&W's CA compliant page. Does the store only purchase the non-rostered version?

It makes so little sense.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2019, 4:34 PM
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My understanding is that the S&W California roster versions have a shorter firing pin to reliably pass the drop test. This can cause reliability problems with harder primers. A standard firing pin can be installed to correct any problems.

Adding revolvers to the roster is easy, but not cheap. So not all models will be added.
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2019, 5:04 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
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That still doesn't answer why S&W makes two models with the exact same model number, without any other ways to differentiate if it's compliant or not, except to open the box and look.

Most other manufacturers have parts that are for all 50 states, or separate part numbers for California, or stick -CA on the end of the part to make sure people know what they are buying.

Why is S&W explicitly hiding this information?
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2019, 5:16 PM
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There's a reason that the average Joe in CA doesn't just buy guns on the internet; it usually ends up in an error and costs you far more than if you had just purchased locally in the first place. Try searching gun genie and see who will order it for you at the best price.
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
My understanding is that the S&W California roster versions have a shorter firing pin to reliably pass the drop test. This can cause reliability problems with harder primers. A standard firing pin can be installed to correct any problems.

Adding revolvers to the roster is easy, but not cheap. So not all models will be added.
No offense, but I doubt your correct. It is highly unlikely that S&W would shorten firing pins knowing they would cause potential reliability problems. That would open them up to some dramatic law suits.
I think what your hearing is a cyber rumor with no basis in fact.
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
No offense, but I doubt your correct. It is highly unlikely that S&W would shorten firing pins knowing they would cause potential reliability problems. That would open them up to some dramatic law suits.
I think what your hearing is a cyber rumor with no basis in fact.
If only that were true...

CA "short" firing pins are .486; the rest of the free world gets a firing pin that is .495.

Fortunately, a whole bunch of folks make excellent aftermarket firing pins that aren't too expensive.
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
No offense, but I doubt your correct. It is highly unlikely that S&W would shorten firing pins knowing they would cause potential reliability problems. That would open them up to some dramatic law suits.
I think what your hearing is a cyber rumor with no basis in fact.
The S&W short firing pin problem is a well known, well documented, and often discussed FACT.
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2019, 1:23 PM
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if that's the case, I stand corrected. Sure would like to hear that from a S&W rep, though.
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2019, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
My understanding is that the S&W California roster versions have a shorter firing pin to reliably pass the drop test. This can cause reliability problems with harder primers. A standard firing pin can be installed to correct any problems.

Adding revolvers to the roster is easy, but not cheap. So not all models will be added.
Just so I'm perfectly clear on this, you're asserting that S&W deliberately installs shorter than normal firing pins on the revolvers that are built for the California market so they can pass the "drop test". Is that correct?
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2019, 1:35 PM
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Is this the one that you want? Davidson's has it as CA legal.
https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/...px?item=170245
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarosa View Post
If only that were true...

CA "short" firing pins are .486; the rest of the free world gets a firing pin that is .495.

Fortunately, a whole bunch of folks make excellent aftermarket firing pins that aren't too expensive.
Do you have any documatation regarding this?
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2019, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
The S&W short firing pin problem is a well known, well documented, and often discussed FACT.
Documented where?
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2019, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEPUTYBILL View Post
Documented where?
Smith-wessonforum.com, midway, brownells and cylinder and slide sites all have information about the short firing pin problem. Smith&Wesson service department installs a long firing pin when they receive a light strike warranty return.
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2019, 5:38 PM
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The CA model will have an “A” after the SKU number...not only on the roster but it will also be on the box it is shipped in from S&W.

If you find it cheaper somewhere, contact them and ask if there is an “A” after the SKU. If there isn’t, it is NOT CA approved.

I would also recommend asking local FFL what their transfer fees are. Once you pay shipping and transfer fees, it is often cheaper to order local.

Where are you located?
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Old 05-19-2019, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
Smith-wessonforum.com, midway, brownells and cylinder and slide sites all have information about the short firing pin problem. Smith&Wesson service department installs a long firing pin when they receive a light strike warranty return.
Then your assertion that S&W installs short firing pins in guns so they can pass the California drop test has no validity. There is no way S&W knows in advance what guns will be shipped to CA or any other state unless they are sent directly to some entity under contract.

I found no references under any of the sites that you indicate that speak to manufactured short firing pins. There were references regarding light strikes under varying circumstances that could have been caused by a number of conditions. For quite obvious reasons gun parts that are manufactured by quality firearms manufactures are produced to exacting standards. Inferring that S&W produces and installs parts contrary to standards is, in my opinion, irresponsible.
BTW, the letter "A"/"B" under the top strap merely reflects updated models and has, apparently, no reference to CA models.
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Old 05-19-2019, 2:40 PM
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Let me rephrase my last statement.
The "A"/"B", etc, indicates models that have been re-tested by S&W to insure their passing Calif. testing and subsequently approved for the Calif. market.
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So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State.
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LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2019, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Then your assertion that S&W installs short firing pins in guns so they can pass the California drop test has no validity. There is no way S&W knows in advance what guns will be shipped to CA or any other state unless they are sent directly to some entity under contract.

I found no references under any of the sites that you indicate that speak to manufactured short firing pins. There were references regarding light strikes under varying circumstances that could have been caused by a number of conditions. For quite obvious reasons gun parts that are manufactured by quality firearms manufactures are produced to exacting standards. Inferring that S&W produces and installs parts contrary to standards is, in my opinion, irresponsible.
BTW, the letter "A"/"B" under the top strap merely reflects updated models and has, apparently, no reference to CA models.
You are certainly free to believe what you want, but the short firing pin in some rostered revolvers is FACT.
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Old 05-19-2019, 5:46 PM
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You guys need to hug it out and move on.
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Old 05-19-2019, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Let me rephrase my last statement.
The "A"/"B", etc, indicates models that have been re-tested by S&W to insure their passing Calif. testing and subsequently approved for the Calif. market.
At least a few of the A/B marked California models passed the drop test as a result of the shorter firing pins.
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Old 06-02-2019, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
At least a few of the A/B marked California models passed the drop test as a result of the shorter firing pins.
At the risk of beating a dead horse while at the same time wanting to refute wild and irresponsible internet rumors, I felt it necessary to contact Smith & Wesson and request their input regarding handguns sent to Calif. with "short firing pins" in order to pass safety testing.
I specifically asked if S&W shipped handguns to CA with "short firing pins" in order to pass testing.

Below is their answer...

Reference number: LTK1114701746904X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.

Subject: Short firing pins
Dear ….,
We would like to thank you for your e-mail and contacting Smith & Wesson / Thompson Center.
I have never heard of this nor is there any truth to it at all. This is not something the Smith & Wesson would ever do. Thank You for choosing Smith & Wesson / Thompson Center products. Have a great day.
Smith & Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, Steve

Hopefully this will put an end to such stupidity unless some just refuse to believe the truth.
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So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State.
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