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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 01-10-2022, 8:42 PM
dawgcasa dawgcasa is offline
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The WSJ Editorial Board responds to Chuck Schumer’s letter to the editors … and they prove yet again that Schumer is a Schmuck:

Answering Schumer on the Filibuster
Democrats should have taken our advice not to break the 60-vote rule for judicial nominees in 2013.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/answeri..._copyURL_share

Choice paragraph excerpt on Schumer’s criticism of the WSJ regarding Trump’s Supreme Court appointments: “Then Majority Leader Harry Reid led Democrats in killing the 60-vote threshold for executive nominees and lower-court judges on a party-line vote. They did so to add three Obama appointees to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. We objected to that Democratic power play at the time and warned this would come back to haunt them. It was good advice.”

Last edited by dawgcasa; 01-10-2022 at 8:50 PM..
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2022, 12:02 PM
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This sneaky work around will let Manchin vote for the voting bill but claim he didn't vote to kill the filibuster. If they do this the Republicans should make them pay dearly if they win the midterms. Putting the feds in charge of elections is a terrible idea. Look how well they have fixed all the other problems they have tackled. If the Republicans win couldn't they just write a bill to repeal this one? Then they could write a law to kill the workaround in the future.
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  #43  
Old 01-11-2022, 5:36 PM
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As Politico noted yesterday... Dems' filibuster conundrum: It's not just Manchin and Sinema

Meanwhile, Manchin said today... Sen. Joe Manchin says scrapping filibuster won’t make Senate ‘better’ in new Biden blow

In short, Democrats, including Manchin, Sinema, et al., aren't necessarily against a change in the rules to push through voting legislation. But, they are against eliminating, either officially or practically, the filibuster.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2022, 7:25 AM
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The question then becomes; can they do one without doing the other.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2022, 8:42 AM
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Congress is on strike. Now it's an election year.
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2022, 4:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessdude View Post
The question then becomes; can they do one without doing the other.
I think that's the crux of the concern. Technically, it appears that they can by using an 'exception' (or 'exemption'). However, the concern appears to be, even among some Democrats, that the 'exception' (or 'exemption') will then become the 'rule' or the SOP... Voting Rights vs. The Filibuster: The Options

Thus, while, technically, the filibuster won't have been eliminated, as a pragmatic/effective tool, it will have been.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2022, 4:28 PM
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Schumer's end Game: The House Bill will be debated, forcing Senators to put up or shut up (so that their positions can be used against them in the upcoming election cycle):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=MSNHP_W069
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2022, 6:14 PM
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It is pretty much assumed Scumers will get most of the Dems in lockstep. Will he get the two holdouts, that is the important part. I want to see if Manchin really has the balls to say no or if he folds and it's all just posturing.
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2022, 7:06 PM
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This whole thing is hilarious. Since what, October, they keep setting new goals and saying they "are making progress" and "crafting a path," (be it voting or the triple B), but all the while NOTHING is actually changing as far as getting the votes. It's all just talk that I think is going to backfire, since it makes their base A) Have hope where there is none, and B) Makes them look powerless and ineffective.

CNN had articles up BEFORE bidens speech saying he had already failed to secure the filibuster carveout. Nothing is going to happen. It looks like Schumer will get a vote, and it will fail, most likely at least 47-53 (kelly, sinema, manchin). Probably more, like 46-54 or 45-55.

It's embarrassing... like a 5-yr old that keeps trying to jump over a wall that everyone knows is too tall, but they keep trying over and over again and no one stops them. Schumer is worried about losing his primary to AOC, and Biden is beholden to appease all the progressives that he made deals with to get the nomination.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2022, 1:04 PM
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Evidently it came out yesterday that the AP got hold of a memo where Schumer is going to attempt a variation of the infamous "California gut and amend" tactic. (Providing the Yahoo link for those averse to giving someone like Axios a click directly.)

Schumer finds loophole to advance elections reform package

Quote:
...The House is expected to take up an amendment in the coming days related to NASA leasing “underutilized” property to private groups. Democratic leaders are referring to this as the "shell bill."
  • It will then strip that legislation of its existing language and replace it with the text for the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act.
  • The House would then pass the updated bill and send it to the Senate as a "message." Then, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) will file a motion to concur with the House amendment...

...Regardless of this new tactic, the Senate would still need to lower the 60-vote filibuster in order to pass the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act in the face of Republicans' total opposition to the bills...
Supposedly, this was the same or a similar tactic used to pass the debt limit increase. In effect, it would move it a step closer by putting it on the floor for 'debate,' but would still require a 60 vote majority to pass.
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  #51  
Old 01-13-2022, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Evidently it came out yesterday that the AP got hold of a memo where Schumer is going to attempt a variation of the infamous "California gut and amend" tactic. (Providing the Yahoo link for those averse to giving someone like Axios a click directly.)

Schumer finds loophole to advance elections reform package
I don't know if Schumer cares one way or the other if it passes. But he certainly wants Republican Senators on the record arguing against the bill as ammunition for the November elections. He wants to be able to paint them all (and the state legislatures that passed new voting laws) as racists. In other words, less unity and more divisiveness. It may be one of the few "power" plays he has left to avoid a Republican run at the polls.
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2022, 4:41 PM
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48 of them can tell their faithful "We Tried".

Sinema only has a chance at re-election by bucking the party and pretending to be a "maverick".

Manchin has an extremely safe seat.

They aren't going to do anything about filibuster, this is about trying to get their base to turn out.
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2022, 8:46 AM
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It seems to be heating up as the 17th approaches. Biden is losing it as he watches his crap implode. I'm not convinced Schumer doesn't have some sneaky **** up his sleeve. I have to say it does my heart good to see all this Dem. utopia crap blowing up in their faces. Just remember desperate fools do desperate things.
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2022, 5:51 PM
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Any opinions on this gut and amend bill getting thru? It's the kind of sneaky **** I would expect from Schumer.
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  #55  
Old 01-15-2022, 10:05 AM
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It's over like it was last June and last September. Now all they have left is BS January 6th stuff.

I expect a holiday to be set for that day. Federal workers only.
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  #56  
Old 01-15-2022, 4:54 PM
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When you look at what they actually do for the people every day is a paid holiday.
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2022, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Evidently it came out yesterday that the AP got hold of a memo where Schumer is going to attempt a variation of the infamous "California gut and amend" tactic. (Providing the Yahoo link for those averse to giving someone like Axios a click directly.)

Schumer finds loophole to advance elections reform package



Supposedly, this was the same or a similar tactic used to pass the debt limit increase. In effect, it would move it a step closer by putting it on the floor for 'debate,' but would still require a 60 vote majority to pass.
The mechanism Schumer used for the debt ceiling (with McConnell’s support) was to get a 60 vote majority to agree to a one time exemption for the debt ceiling bill to be passed with a simple majority. Then democrats passed the debt ceiling by themselves without having to use the reconciliation process. Democrats wanted to avoid having to use the reconciliation process for the debt ceiling because they wanted to preserve it for Build Back Better … McConnell wanted Democrats to wholly ‘own’ raising the debt ceiling without it being part of BBB, so he agreed to the one time exception. This permitted McConnell to say Democrats raised the debt ceiling by themselves without getting into the PR bruising battle over which party would be tagged as responsible for “shutting down the government” if Republicans had insisted on linking the debt ceiling increase to the reconciliation process.

Last edited by dawgcasa; 01-16-2022 at 7:57 AM..
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2022, 8:39 AM
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He [ Schumer ] said he was going to bring it up for a vote on the 17th. That is tomorrow and it is MLK day. Do they even work on a holiday? I didn't catch the symbolism of the 17th when he said it but I'll bet he did. He's a slimy POS but he's not stupid. Gamrs, games, and more games.
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  #59  
Old 01-16-2022, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
Schumer's end Game: The House Bill will be debated, forcing Senators to put up or shut up (so that their positions can be used against them in the upcoming election cycle):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=MSNHP_W069
Eh, probably not, it will likely be more like Pelosi's tactic of seeing how many arms she can pull out of their sockets and then postpone the actual vote at the very last minute instead of having the resolution fail in public.

But the bigger issue here is the filibuster itself and how Harry Reid's 'nuclear option' has once again come back to bite the Democrats in the posterior. Had he not opened that Pandora's box in the first place they wouldn't be where they are now trying to decide who, how and when to 'modernize' the Senate rules as they need to push unpopular legislation through...
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  #60  
Old 01-16-2022, 6:09 PM
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The filibuster looks safe for now. the weasel will still try to find a way around it.
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  #61  
Old 01-18-2022, 7:59 AM
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Any ideas about when he will bring it to the floor. He said this week and the clock is ticking? It would be so nice if ten or more decided not to blindly follow but they usually act like sheep. Fingers crossed.
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  #62  
Old 01-18-2022, 8:37 AM
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Manchin and Synema won't support ending the filibuster. I bet several are privately on their side and don't want to take that vote. Really is the loony left they had taken over the newsroom that think this win at any cost is a good idea.



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  #63  
Old 01-18-2022, 10:15 AM
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Chucky will pull the vote when he finds out he doesn't have the support for it. Like Nancy, he will only bring a winning issue up for a vote. Otherwise, he's humiliated in front of the world.
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  #64  
Old 01-18-2022, 11:57 AM
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They have put themselves in a very tough spot... by claiming (with unlimited support from cnn, etc) that the election laws are jim crow, and the end of democracy, they have spun up their base, but also now have no way to solve this "existential problem" and can't go back and say "its actually not that bad." So they will look like impotent idiots with a base foaming at the mouth. Still super amused that Georgia's new laws are affectively no more restrictive than Schumers New York.

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Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
Manchin and Synema won't support ending the filibuster. I bet several are privately on their side and don't want to take that vote. Really is the loony left they had taken over the newsroom that think this win at any cost is a good idea.



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  #65  
Old 01-18-2022, 4:02 PM
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Seems if you don't agree with Schumer and Pelosi you don't believe in apple pie, America, 4th of July or Democracy. I guess asking people to show the same ID you need to buy a malt liquor makes us all commies.
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  #66  
Old 01-18-2022, 4:38 PM
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Hollywood and the sports world are now applying some pressure to these 2 senators but I don’t think it will work.
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  #67  
Old 01-19-2022, 8:02 AM
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Schumer is now trying trial ballon’s on half-measures such as a ‘talking’ filibuster … even saying that after ‘ending debate’ the Democrats would still pass the voting bill with a simple partisan majority anyway. Manchin said yet again on Tuesday he wouldn’t support it. And of course the far-left progressives are saying that Schumer hasn’t “played hard ball” … that he’s been “too nice” and needs to “tighten the screws” on Manchin and Sinema. I don’t know what trick Schumer has left to “tighten the screws” … he’s already tried character assassination, roving harassment by protesters, hiding documentation of Manchin’s long standing ‘must haves’ as a means to inflame the liberal media against him, and endlessly boring ‘negotiation’ meetings with Brandon. The only thing Schumer hasn’t tried is an actual hit squad. Manchin should get the inevitable over with … the Democratic Party has left him … he needs to flip to a Republican.
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Old 01-19-2022, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
Schumer is now trying trial ballon’s on half-measures such as a ‘talking’ filibuster … even saying that after ‘ending debate’ the Democrats would still pass the voting bill with a simple partisan majority anyway. Manchin said yet again on Tuesday he wouldn’t support it. And of course the far-left progressives are saying that Schumer hasn’t “played hard ball” … that he’s been “too nice” and needs to “tighten the screws” on Manchin and Sinema. I don’t know what trick Schumer has left to “tighten the screws” … he’s already tried character assassination, roving harassment by protesters, hiding documentation of Manchin’s long standing ‘must haves’ as a means to inflame the liberal media against him, and endlessly boring ‘negotiation’ meetings with Brandon. The only thing Schumer hasn’t tried is an actual hit squad. Manchin should get the inevitable over with … the Democratic Party has left him … he needs to flip to a Republican.
If Manchin leaves the party he should go Independent. When the attacks come about him just being a republican he can point to Sanders that is also an independent.

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  #69  
Old 01-19-2022, 12:42 PM
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He has already said if he changed parties he would go independent and still caucus with democrats. But I don't think there is any benefit for him to do that... he may threaten it, but he will stay a D.
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Old 01-19-2022, 7:17 PM
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Imagin how different the senate would be with 15 Rs, 15 Ds, 15 Inds, and a few Libert, greens, etc. There would be a lot more cooperation and working together or nothing would pass.. " Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand".
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Old 01-21-2022, 5:42 PM
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The new plan I heard yesterday is they are going to break up his BBB into several smaller bills and pass them that way. Haven't heard how they plan to move the voting bill yet. You can bet they haven't given up on it..
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Old 01-21-2022, 7:07 PM
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My understanding is that the vote to abolish the filibuster failed, 48-52. Now, Schumer and Biden have to concoct something that will attract senators from both parties.

Manchin is a man who deserves great respect and national standing. He stood on principles. That's not admired in D.C. Same goes for the lady from Arizona...Synema (sp?)

If you happen to be a Democrat, I'm sure we could agree on some things, but your party has gone off the rails.
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Old 01-22-2022, 3:55 PM
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Filibuster busting always sounds like a great idea when you have the majority and don't think past the next election. In fact, without Democrats and Harry Reid's nuclear option in the past, we wouldn't have the SCOTUS that we have today - R's will approve leftists justices based on qualification, D's will never accept anyone who doesn't pass their ideological litmus test.

The two D's probably saved their party as much as they saved the ability of the Senate to function at all. With simple majority, laws would swing every few years and we would have 2A national reciprocity and all sorts of "bans on AWBs."
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Old 01-22-2022, 4:05 PM
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As Harry Reid put it when commenting on Schumer's intent to eliminate the filibuster (this is not an exact quote but close to it): "We already have a House of Representatives and it is right down the hall."

Some are fond of habitually criticizing Sen. Reid, but I call him the Kentucky Fox. He has consistently outmaneuvered and outsmarted Schumer and the Democrats, while playing with a weak hand and with zero help from a hostile media.

Remember Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not criticize a fellow Republican."
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Old 01-22-2022, 4:19 PM
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Arizona lefties are upset.
https://apnews.com/article/voting-ri...8df329c053fce0
Quote:
Leaders of the Arizona Democratic Party voted Saturday to censure Sinema, citing “her failure to do whatever it takes to ensure the health of our democracy″ — namely her refusal to go along with fellow Democrats to alter a Senate rule so they could overcome Republican opposition to the bill. While the rebuke is symbolic, it is striking given that only three years ago, Sinema was heralded for bringing the Senate seat back into the Democratic fold for the first time in a generation.
Typical language of the left "failure to do whatever ..." meaning "win at all costs to destroy and replace our Republic with socialism."

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  #76  
Old 01-22-2022, 4:25 PM
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The U.S. Constitution gives the States the powers to conduct elections. The two voting bills that flamed out in the U.S. Senate amounted to a Federal takeover of state and local elections, and would not stand up to Judicial scrutiny.

The States are going about their lawful business, regulating elections to prevent or detect fraud. Meanwhile, minorities are voting in larger numbers.

No one is being prevented from voting. That is a complete falsehood promoted by Biden and the Democrats. There is no "voter suppression". Voter ID, for instance, is not voter suppression. It is insulting to people to suggest that they can't comply with an ID requirement, as if they are dumb little children.
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Old 01-22-2022, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Navy View Post

No one is being prevented from voting. That is a complete falsehood promoted by Biden and the Democrats. There is no "voter suppression". Voter ID, for instance, is not voter suppression. It is insulting to people to suggest that they can't comply with an ID requirement, as if they are dumb little children.
Bottom Line is that Leftist Liberals promote the premise that minorities are all stupid, and need the Party of Jim Crow, the Klan, Plantation Welfare, and Segregation to protect them from themselves.

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Old 01-23-2022, 5:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Navy View Post
The U.S. Constitution gives the States the powers to conduct elections. The two voting bills that flamed out in the U.S. Senate amounted to a Federal takeover of state and local elections, and would not stand up to Judicial scrutiny.

The States are going about their lawful business, regulating elections to prevent or detect fraud. Meanwhile, minorities are voting in larger numbers.

No one is being prevented from voting. That is a complete falsehood promoted by Biden and the Democrats. There is no "voter suppression". Voter ID, for instance, is not voter suppression. It is insulting to people to suggest that they can't comply with an ID requirement, as if they are dumb little children.
Even where voter ID is technically required, someone who lost their ID for example can still fill out a provisional ballot.
The bulk of the cheating is absentee ballots anyway. You simply can't produce the raw numbers of fake votes by having individuals go to polling places. That takes a lot more time than having someone with a printer mass produce ballots and stuff the drop boxes.
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Old 01-23-2022, 12:30 PM
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Schumer’s ‘strategy’ of forcing the Senate into an pre-determined failed vote was all about laying groundwork for the Democrats narrative on November mid-terms. It can be used to rally their base about ‘obstructionist’ Republicans that dared to stop ‘Voting Rights’ … and directly feeds into their narrative of pre-announcing the 2022 mid-terms as ‘illegitimate’. All this is about stoking divisiveness and racial tensions in the lead up to the elections. Expect there to be what Democrats call ‘peaceful protests’ in the weeks leading up to the election (aka riots), and a flurry of lawsuits by Marc Elias & Co. in the months before the election in attempts to get the DOJ engaged in ‘oversight’ of competitive elections. It also exposes for everyone to see the very real intent of Democrats to eventually eliminate the legislative filibuster the moment in the future that they have 50 solid votes to do so. Whether thats 2022, 2024, or 2026 … it signals their true goal. Expect the elimination of the filibuster to become a core ‘plank’ of the Democratic Party that any new candidates running for the Senate will be expected to fully embrace.
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Old 01-24-2022, 1:18 AM
press1280 press1280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
Schumer’s ‘strategy’ of forcing the Senate into an pre-determined failed vote was all about laying groundwork for the Democrats narrative on November mid-terms. It can be used to rally their base about ‘obstructionist’ Republicans that dared to stop ‘Voting Rights’ … and directly feeds into their narrative of pre-announcing the 2022 mid-terms as ‘illegitimate’. All this is about stoking divisiveness and racial tensions in the lead up to the elections. Expect there to be what Democrats call ‘peaceful protests’ in the weeks leading up to the election (aka riots), and a flurry of lawsuits by Marc Elias & Co. in the months before the election in attempts to get the DOJ engaged in ‘oversight’ of competitive elections. It also exposes for everyone to see the very real intent of Democrats to eventually eliminate the legislative filibuster the moment in the future that they have 50 solid votes to do so. Whether thats 2022, 2024, or 2026 … it signals their true goal. Expect the elimination of the filibuster to become a core ‘plank’ of the Democratic Party that any new candidates running for the Senate will be expected to fully embrace.
I don't think they can run on this at all. Their party is at an all time low approval, the core of this "voting rights bill" is to do away with voter ID which is overwhelmingly unpopular, same with the filibuster.
Schumer may have let this go to a vote to save himself from an AOC primary challenge. The Dems probably know a historic defeat is on the way and were looking to this as a last resort.
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