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  #1  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:17 AM
Tumerboy Tumerboy is offline
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Default Selling 2018 BB Registered guns?

I'm considering thinning my collection, including some of my Bullet Button rifles registered in 2018. I know I can't sell them in state, but are there any requirements for me to inform CA or paperwork I have to fill out if they are to folks in other states?
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2022, 12:57 PM
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You also can not offer it for sale from California. To offer it for sale in its current configuration in California you must utilize an FFL with an AW permit. And that would be for out of state sale.
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2022, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
I'm considering thinning my collection, including some of my Bullet Button rifles registered in 2018. I know I can't sell them in state, but are there any requirements for me to inform CA or paperwork I have to fill out if they are to folks in other states?
Federal laws requires transfers of firearms between residents of different States to be done through a FFL. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5)]
Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for everyone involved with the transfer. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

Therefore, any firearm you sell to a non-resident of CA must be transferred through a FFL dealer in the State the non-resident of CA resides in.

While in CA, it is illegal to advertise for sale an assault weapon. [PC 30600(a)]
^There is no exemption to this for owner's of RAW.

Therefore, in order to legally be able to offer it for sale, the registered owner must do one of the following:
A. Transport it out-of-state and then offer it for sale.
B. Render it into a non-assault weapon configuration and then offer it for sale in it's non-assault weapon form.

Transferring the firearm through an out-of-state FFL dealer meets all legal requirements for transferring it.

After the firearm is transferred, you can voluntarily report the transfer to CA DOJ BOF in order to update them on the status of your RAW.

In order for this report to be completely processed, you will need:
1. The out-of-state transferee's info (name, address, phone number).
2. The out-of-state FFL dealer's info (name, address, phone number, FFL#).
3. A copy of the sale receipt or transfer paperwork.
If you do not include all of the above info, then your report will be left in a pending status until you submit all of the info.
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Last edited by Quiet; 01-13-2022 at 3:11 PM..
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2022, 5:14 PM
Tumerboy Tumerboy is offline
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Thank you both for the info, ARDude & Quiet. I really appreciate it.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2022, 7:25 AM
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Used AR types out of CA aren't worth much. You are better off just keeping them.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2022, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Federal laws requires transfers of firearms between residents of different States to be done through a FFL. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5)]
Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for everyone involved with the transfer. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

Therefore, any firearm you sell to a non-resident of CA must be transferred through a FFL dealer in the State the non-resident of CA resides in.

While in CA, it is illegal to advertise for sale an assault weapon. [PC 30600(a)]
^There is no exemption to this for owner's of RAW.

Therefore, in order to legally be able to offer it for sale, the registered owner must do one of the following:
A. Transport it out-of-state and then offer it for sale.
B. Render it into a non-assault weapon configuration and then offer it for sale in it's non-assault weapon form.
Are you aware of any court case that has agreed with this position? I know what the statutes say and am not disagreeing with you on that point. My issue is that preventing a CA resident from advertising for sale a lawfully possessed AW for sale to a resident of another state, would have constitutional problems. First, it is an unjustified interference with interstate commerce. What possible interest could CA claim to preclude its residents from selling their firearms to residents of other states, so long as federal law is followed? Next, it could be a taking without compensation.
Quote:
Transferring the firearm through an out-of-state FFL dealer meets all legal requirements for transferring it.

After the firearm is transferred, you can voluntarily report the transfer to CA DOJ BOF in order to update them on the status of your RAW.
Why bother reporting?
Quote:
In order for this report to be completely processed, you will need:
1. The out-of-state transferee's info (name, address, phone number).
2. The out-of-state FFL dealer's info (name, address, phone number, FFL#).
3. A copy of the sale receipt or transfer paperwork.
If you do not include all of the above info, then your report will be left in a pending status until you submit all of the info.
Good luck on getting an out-of-state transferee to agree to provide CA DOJ their name, address and phone number.

Last edited by BAJ475; 01-14-2022 at 9:15 AM.. Reason: correct possible misreading
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2022, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Are you aware of any court case that has agreed with this position? I know what the statutes say and am not disagreeing with you on that point. My issue is that preventing a CA resident from advertising for sale a lawfully possessed AW for sale to a resident of another state, would have constitutional problems. First, it is an unjustified interference with interstate commerce. What possible interest could CA claim to preclude its residents from selling their firearms to residents of other states, so long as federal law is followed? Next, it could be a taking without compensation.
It's been this way since 01-01-1990 and no one has challenged it in the Courts.

A person with a RAW will need a valid Dangerous Weapons Permit for AW in order to legally be able to advertise it for sale while they are in CA. [PC 30945]

Penal Code 30600
(a) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for four, six, or eight years.

Penal Code 30945
Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:
(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.
(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.

Penal Code 31000
(c) Any person who wishes to acquire an assault weapon after January 1, 1990, or a .50 BMG rifle after January 1, 2005, shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 32650) of Chapter 6.

Penal Code 31005
(a) The Department of Justice may, upon a finding of good cause, issue permits for the manufacture or sale of assault weapons or .50 BMG rifles for the sale to, purchase by, or possession of assault weapons or .50 BMG rifles by, any of the following:
(1) The agencies listed in Section 30625, and the officers described in Section 30630.
(2) Entities and persons who have been issued permits pursuant to this section or Section 31000.
(3) Federal law enforcement and military agencies.
(4) Law enforcement and military agencies of other states.
(5) Foreign governments and agencies approved by the United States State Department.
(6) Entities outside the state who have, in effect, a federal firearms dealer’s license solely for the purpose of distribution to an entity listed in paragraphs (3) to (5), inclusive.
(b) Application for the permits, the keeping and inspection thereof, and the revocation of permits shall be undertaken in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 32650) of Chapter 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Why bother reporting?
There is no reason to do it.
It's why it's voluntary.
People may do it as a peace of mind that their RAW is "no longer registered to them" or because they want to help CA DOJ update their records.
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Last edited by Quiet; 01-14-2022 at 2:26 PM..
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2022, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's been this way since 01-01-1990 and no one has challenged it in the Courts.
That was my thought but thought I would ask, in case I had missed something.
Quote:
....
There is no reason to do it.
It's why it's voluntary.
People may do it as a peace of mind that their RAW is "no longer registered to them" or because they want to help CA DOJ update their records.
Real peace of mind is knowing that there is nothing CA can do about the fact that I removed the BBs on my RBBAWs and that the trail ends with CA DOJ's out of date records.
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2022, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
In order for this report to be completely processed, you will need:
1. The out-of-state transferee's info (name, address, phone number).
2. The out-of-state FFL dealer's info (name, address, phone number, FFL#).
3. A copy of the sale receipt or transfer paperwork.
Picky question - isn't the out-of-state FFL dealer, also the out-of-state transferee? You as the seller have no way to manage or track what happens to a firearm after it enters the FFL's bound book. How they dispose of it, and to whom, you aren't a party to.
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2022, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbo80 View Post
Picky question - isn't the out-of-state FFL dealer, also the out-of-state transferee? You as the seller have no way to manage or track what happens to a firearm after it enters the FFL's bound book. How they dispose of it, and to whom, you aren't a party to.
CA DOJ wants the info of the person that the out-of-state FFL is transferring it to.

If it was sold to an out-of-state FFL, then you would only have the out-of-state FFL's info.

If it was sold to an out-of-state individual, then you would have that person's info and the info of their out-of-state FFL.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2022, 10:08 AM
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Should have gone featureless. Then all options would be available. Registering a RAW here is as bad as voting for prop 63.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2022, 11:13 AM
Tumerboy Tumerboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Should have gone featureless. Then all options would be available. Registering a RAW here is as bad as voting for prop 63.
Very helpful. Thank you.
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