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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2022, 4:53 AM
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Default 4-Ton Wrecking Ball For Us To Use Against Gun Control Laws

This piece has been posted today... Supreme Court's landmark guns ruling prompts race to test Second Amendment's limits (Here's the Yahoo version if you run into a paywall.)

Quote:
...In a press release announcing the lawsuit, Brown's group described the court's decision in Bruen as a "4-ton wrecking ball for us to use against gun control laws."

There may be some gun laws that will stand up, Brown said in an interview, "but on magazine bans and semi-automatic – so-called assault rifle – bans there's, near as I can tell, no way they can get out of this," Brown said. "Once the Supreme Court...rules something is unconstitutional, you don't get to redefine it without an amendment."

Not so fast, say gun regulation proponents.

Tirschwell's Everytown Law has also been preparing for litigation. The group announced a new center days after the Bruen decision that will partner with state and local government attorneys defending gun regulations.

"It's certainly an unsettled time," Tirschwell said. "But we remain optimistic that...as the dust starts to settle a little bit, the lion's share of gun safety laws will be upheld."
It's an interesting, though not exactly comprehensive, piece looking at some of the moves and countermoves post Bruen.
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Old 08-01-2022, 6:02 AM
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If anyone thought for one second that Bruen would quickly change things for the better, they are now getting a reality check. It may change things, but will take time. Hopefully, it won’t go the way of Heller, and be largely ignored by lower courts, but we will see. I fully expect to see governments such as California and New Your simply choosing not to follow, and in the meantime make things much worse, knowing that changes take decades, then they simply create a work-around, or simply ignore totally.
We all know their BS is totally unconstitutional, so it is up to each individual to decide to what extent they will continue to comply, or not.
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Old 08-01-2022, 8:46 AM
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Archived link to the article:

https://archive.ph/Dz4Yq
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Old 08-01-2022, 8:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastinline View Post

If anyone thought for one second that Bruen would quickly change things for the better, they are now getting a reality check.

I fully expect to see governments such as California and New Your simply choosing not to follow, and in the meantime make things much worse, knowing that changes take decades, then they simply create a work-around, or simply ignore totally.
.
I agree, this was my thought as to where it will go, which reinforces my decision to move to a free-red state within a year to enjoy the remainder of my life as to how I please.
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Old 08-02-2022, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastinline View Post
If anyone thought for one second that Bruen would quickly change things for the better, they are now getting a reality check. It may change things, but will take time. Hopefully, it won’t go the way of Heller, and be largely ignored by lower courts, but we will see. I fully expect to see governments such as California and New Your simply choosing not to follow, and in the meantime make things much worse, knowing that changes take decades, then they simply create a work-around, or simply ignore totally.
We all know their BS is totally unconstitutional, so it is up to each individual to decide to what extent they will continue to comply, or not.
This is precisely what we've seen, even on Calguns, in a variety of threads from how long before this or that law/roster/ban/et al. falls to accusations of nefarious machinations such as the possible reasons underlying DROS delays to speculation over what will become available and how soon with regard to Bruen and any other, pro-gun decision from all levels of the court system. There's quite a bit of pent up frustration, angst, and desire. As a result, people tend to place too much faith in immediate results from any, single decision. But, no matter how many times they are told that it's not going to be 'that easy or quick,' the cycle simply repeats vis a vis frustration, speculation, conspiracy theory, etc.

Some of it is nefarious machination. Some of it is simple inertia; i.e., just because a law changes does not mean behaviors automatically change in that some are still seeking to understand where the new line has been placed before committing. Some of this is going to have to be tested or tested anew in the court system; just like those cases which were remanded to be determined based on the new criteria. Right on down the list.

It's why 'the fight' is often talked about in generational terms. You may see some changes in your lifetime, but the truly big ones, as you indicate, take time and, in some cases, longer than a single lifetime or, at least, more than some of us have left. That's why you take the wins, enjoy them, but always assume 'the fight' continues.
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Old 08-02-2022, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
This is precisely what we've seen, even on Calguns, in a variety of threads from how long before this or that law/roster/ban/et al. falls to accusations of nefarious machinations such as the possible reasons underlying DROS delays to speculation over what will become available and how soon with regard to Bruen and any other, pro-gun decision from all levels of the court system. There's quite a bit of pent up frustration, angst, and desire. As a result, people tend to place too much faith in immediate results from any, single decision. But, no matter how many times they are told that it's not going to be 'that easy or quick,' the cycle simply repeats vis a vis frustration, speculation, conspiracy theory, etc.

Some of it is nefarious machination. Some of it is simple inertia; i.e., just because a law changes does not mean behaviors automatically change in that some are still seeking to understand where the new line has been placed before committing. Some of this is going to have to be tested or tested anew in the court system; just like those cases which were remanded to be determined based on the new criteria. Right on down the list.

It's why 'the fight' is often talked about in generational terms. You may see some changes in your lifetime, but the truly big ones, as you indicate, take time and, in some cases, longer than a single lifetime or, at least, more than some of us have left. That's why you take the wins, enjoy them, but always assume 'the fight' continues.
Well now that Miller has been sent back to Benitez, we will find out just how long the wait will be. It may not be long. I hope for a quick TRO and preliminary injunction. It may actually happen this time. Of course the time frame is the fabled "two weeks." It's just that it might really be two weeks this time.
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Old 08-02-2022, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cleonard View Post
Well now that Miller has been sent back to Benitez, we will find out just how long the wait will be. It may not be long. I hope for a quick TRO and preliminary injunction. It may actually happen this time. Of course the time frame is the fabled "two weeks." It's just that it might really be two weeks this time.
Hopefully, the decision is in a shortened time frame as you suggest. But, that does not mean it will be settled. In fact, at this moment, I am currently going through something where, legally, something was laid out about 7 years ago, in detail, and the situation fits almost precisely that situation, yet I have been working the phones all morning attempting to resolve - "Yeah, but what if..." - responses which shouldn't even be open for debate or discussion.

Such is the very type of thing I suspect we'll see with this. We may think it is fairly clear and fits perfectly what is desired; but, as we discovered with D.C. post-Heller, as we have discovered with the decisions by Benitez, etc., what lawyers are paid to do, in part, is find a "what if?" and exploit it. So, I would not, as others have been suggesting, place too much emphasis on declaring success or 'inevitable success' simply on the basis that SCOTUS thinks it has provided a certain 'clarity.'

That is the context of what I was reacting to; i.e., that it could change things, but will take time. Put another way, far too many expect or declare or 'see' a definitive which is less definitive than it is or which is perceived. Too many put as much, if not more, 'hope' into the presumed definitive than is there or even possible. While that may be viewed as 'cynical' by some, bear in mind that cynicism and realism are two sides of the same coin... unfortunately.
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Old 08-02-2022, 3:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastinline View Post
If anyone thought for one second that Bruen would quickly change things for the better, they are now getting a reality check. It may change things, but will take time. Hopefully, it won’t go the way of Heller, and be largely ignored by lower courts, but we will see. I fully expect to see governments such as California and New Your simply choosing not to follow, and in the meantime make things much worse, knowing that changes take decades, then they simply create a work-around, or simply ignore totally.
We all know their BS is totally unconstitutional, so it is up to each individual to decide to what extent they will continue to comply, or not.
I agree because fighting for gun rights has not worked very well because even when the courts make the correct ruling no one at the federal level has stepped up to enforce the rulings.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2022, 8:21 AM
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"Make me" says Excremento to the Supreme Court. Until US Marshalls walk into the Capitol building and start making arrests nothing will change here.

Excremento knows this as well, hence the flurry of new laws they know they can get several good years of use out of, then new laws will be passed to get around any future court decisions.

Round and round we go, it's like watching a dog chase his tail.
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Old 08-03-2022, 8:50 AM
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Default We seem to be changing

The Constitution, like anything else on paper, only has effect as long as those in power honor it. We are at a point in time where things historically valued are being weakened and even destroyed. Statues are being torn down, history is being re-written, there is no respect for police officers -- or the Supreme Court -- and so on.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:44 PM
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In case anyone is having trouble envisioning the reference...

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Old 08-11-2022, 12:29 PM
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The US constitution had been reduced to parchment rights.

They are just a piece of paper here now.
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Old 08-11-2022, 7:22 PM
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4 ton wrecking ball? NOPE, not at all.

4 TON BOOT IN THE DOOR TO LIBERTY. Would be a closer analogy.

That big boot, is holding the LIBERTY door open. Allowing a tsunami of litigation to flood in, and dismantle decades of infringements.
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Old 08-17-2022, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mute View Post
Archived link to the article:

https://archive.ph/Dz4Yq
Thank you kindly
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Old 08-19-2022, 7:36 AM
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Bruen means nothing. Judges and the elites will not allow their serfs to rise up against them. Why do you think cops are ordered to stand down when liberals burn cities. Because the elites know that at any time their foot soldiers aka cops can take down liberals no problem. But if conservatives rise up that's a threat to their power.
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