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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2021, 9:42 AM
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Default US has 6% of worlds COVID deaths

But only 4.25% of the worlds population.

And the best healthcare system in the world.

Sure glad they are not overcounting COVID deaths in this country.
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2021, 9:52 AM
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Fortunately, we cured a lot of other diseases battling covid.
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2021, 10:34 AM
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Fortunately, we cured a lot of other diseases battling covid.
I figure we came out ahead then.
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:36 AM
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We are over counting and the rest of the world is under counting.
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:44 AM
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Default Peddle it Somewhere Else

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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
But only 4.25% of the worlds population.

And the best healthcare system in the world.

Sure glad they are not overcounting COVID deaths in this country.
The US is ranked fourteenth—14th!!—in deaths per million population.
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
And the best healthcare system in the world.
Oh wait, you seriously believe that.

Best health care for who? Everybody in nation? Certainly not those making too much for medicare and too little for quality insurance.

There's been a number of threads on this very forum by people who have been buying "insurance" from those "Christian Co-Ops" that clearly state in their fine print that they are not insurance. That should give you an idea as to the veracity of your belief that we have the best healthcare system in the world.
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2021, 12:44 PM
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Actually in some ways our health care is quite good, and that works against us in these statistics.

We probably have the most accurate count, and that doesn't mean inflated numbers here but probably does mean deflated numbers elsewhere.

There are also structural reasons why we would have higher percentages. Notably, we have an older population than many places -- and often this is evidence of quality health care... But beyond that, we have a highly mobile population as well. Recall the early super-spreader events caused by wealthy people traveling and having fun outside their daily circles.

Wealthy country also means lots of elderly in nursing homes instead of propped up in a rocking chair. The elder care fraction of our death toll is huge.

So, yeah, a grim statistic, but plausible. It also has many causes, and many lessons can be found there.
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  #8  
Old 04-18-2021, 1:38 PM
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Originally Posted by duenor View Post
Oh wait, you seriously believe that.

Best health care for who? Everybody in nation? Certainly not those making too much for medicare and too little for quality insurance.

There's been a number of threads on this very forum by people who have been buying "insurance" from those "Christian Co-Ops" that clearly state in their fine print that they are not insurance. That should give you an idea as to the veracity of your belief that we have the best healthcare system in the world.
Medicare is available for everyone onc you reach 65. In fact, no one can get it before 65 and if you miss signing up for it, you pay a permanent 10% penalty for every year you don't sign up.
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  #9  
Old 04-18-2021, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by duenor View Post
Oh wait, you seriously believe that.
Name a better one.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2021, 2:25 PM
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Don't forget, the flu magically disappeared this year.

https://apnews.com/article/flu-has-d...2a829a324f398d
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  #11  
Old 04-18-2021, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
Actually in some ways our health care is quite good, and that works against us in these statistics.

We probably have the most accurate count, and that doesn't mean inflated numbers here but probably does mean deflated numbers elsewhere.

There are also structural reasons why we would have higher percentages. Notably, we have an older population than many places -- and often this is evidence of quality health care... But beyond that, we have a highly mobile population as well. Recall the early super-spreader events caused by wealthy people traveling and having fun outside their daily circles.

Wealthy country also means lots of elderly in nursing homes instead of propped up in a rocking chair. The elder care fraction of our death toll is huge.

So, yeah, a grim statistic, but plausible. It also has many causes, and many lessons can be found there.
Thanks again for another well reasoned post.
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2021, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Name a better one.
It goes back to the question of, "best health care for who?"

I have pretty awesome health care, for example. I pay a puny co pay each time I go to the doctor, I'm covered no matter where I go in the world, and there is a hard cap on how much I will ever have to pay out of pocket.

I have two professions. In one, I supervise a number of people of varying ranks and pay grades. Last year, I had 8 employees at the lowest rank, making slightly more than minimum wage. They aren't poor enough for medi-cal, they are too young for medicare, and they can't afford obamacare. One of them was diabetic, and when he got that job he was promptly informed by medi-cal that he would no longer qualify. so he begged his doctor to him him stock his fridge full of insulin and just hoped that he would land a better job or be able to go back to medi-cal before it ran out.

a lot of the casualties from covid19 are among those who are poor. here in los angeles, the bottom barrel communities, the ones that work in meat plants and factories and farms, got trashed - cudahay, vernon, san bernandino, etc.

so to answer your question, I can only say that to me, the totality of a nation's health care system ought to be at least in large part judged by its ability to provide a basic modicum of care for all of its citizens.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2021, 3:48 AM
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......so to answer your question, I can only say that to me, the totality of a nation's health care system ought to be at least in large part judged by its ability to provide a basic modicum of care for all of its citizens.
You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2021, 3:55 AM
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Fat People die from Covid19.
More Fat People more deaths.
Just an Inconvenient Truth for those Plus Size people especially the women
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2021, 8:27 PM
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You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.
While forgetting that we let in more “migrants” and legal immigrants than anyone else.

Duenor is as the name suggests, Duenorthing.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2021, 2:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.
Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2021, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by duenor View Post
Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.
More dissembling. You ridicule a fellow CG member for saying we had the best healthcare in this country. It would seem it's incumbent upon you to name an alternate. Instead, you try your old tired deflection routine b start in with the insults, and offer up some kind of John Kerry'ish "nuanced" babble.
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2021, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by duenor View Post
Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.
What brand of chicanery is this?
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Old 04-22-2021, 11:43 AM
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All BS aside, one might use cancer survival rates as a measure of a health care system. By that metric the united Kingdom sucks and the US is second in the world.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

I know a lady who fell ill in Italy at about 80 YO. Kidney trouble. The Italian doctors told her it was her time and they would do nothing to help. She came back to the US and received treatment. She will be 100 YO soon. That is 2nd degree murder.

In the US you have to put in your work to get decent care. It is expensive. The docs on the list that are seeing new patients is because they suck. IF you seek quality doctors you can get great care.

This is a problem in managed care co-ops. The specialists in my area vary from incompetent to criminal. One I was refeed to lost his medical license for doing unnecessary surgery. And, yep, he wanted to do ill advised surgery on me in two days time. I hope he rots in hell. You have to be your own advocate.

Like the co-ops we will never have good care if a government agency manages it for all. We are not children, stop begging the government to be a parent.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
What brand of chicanery is this?
The same old tired chicanery we know and expect from this fellow. Insults and deflection.


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  #21  
Old 04-22-2021, 9:04 PM
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We still have criminals who never bought healthcare.
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Old 04-22-2021, 9:27 PM
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We still have criminals who never bought healthcare.
They used to get free care at the county hospital. They were called indigents. The same doctors as the good hospital were required to do community service at the county hospital. They worked for free and county hospital charged nothing.

Then the government stepped in and required all hospitals to serve everyone the same way whether they paid or not. That is when it went off the rails. Now everyone who pays, pays stupid money. If you are insured they negotiate the price down. Noninsurance they bankrupt you. If you are indigent you get it all and pay nothing. IT is a stupid system. It encourage a-holes. It would be better to roll the clock back about 50 years. Better for the responsible people anyway. It would be fair to everyone. Nobody would be deprived of competent care.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-2021, 7:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.
He wants socialized medicine.
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Old 04-24-2021, 7:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
The same old tired chicanery we know and expect from this fellow. Insults and deflection.


It's what they do.
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Old 04-24-2021, 2:19 PM
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He wants socialized medicine.
I know..... and I know that he won't just come out and say it. Hence the dissembling when asked.

The problem with socialized medicine is that, should you require a specialist and attention right now for something like cancer or heart surgery, you'll get shuffled off to wait and die in a 9 month que. That is by design - it's cheaper to have you wait and die than to give you the attention you need. That is why Canadians and Brits come here for top-notch urgent medical attention. If the US goes to socialized medicine, the whole world is SOL.
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Old 04-24-2021, 3:30 PM
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Maybe we can ask the Chinese what they did. They have under 5,000 deaths. Hahaha!
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Old 04-24-2021, 4:53 PM
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I'm sure other countries are counting deaths with the same rules and diligence as we are
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Old 04-24-2021, 5:41 PM
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I'm sure other countries are counting deaths with the same rules and diligence as we are
No one knows any of the numbers. Especially people on internet forums.

But many will say they do

The whole thing is a clown show.
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Old 04-26-2021, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
No one knows any of the numbers. Especially people on internet forums.

But many will say they do

The whole thing is a clown show.
Honesty, I fail to understand how this is not glaringly obvious to anyone with two gray cells to rub together.
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Old 04-26-2021, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by duenor View Post
It goes back to the question of, "best health care for who?"

I have pretty awesome health care, for example. I pay a puny co pay each time I go to the doctor, I'm covered no matter where I go in the world, and there is a hard cap on how much I will ever have to pay out of pocket.

I have two professions. In one, I supervise a number of people of varying ranks and pay grades. Last year, I had 8 employees at the lowest rank, making slightly more than minimum wage. They aren't poor enough for medi-cal, they are too young for medicare, and they can't afford obamacare. One of them was diabetic, and when he got that job he was promptly informed by medi-cal that he would no longer qualify. so he begged his doctor to him him stock his fridge full of insulin and just hoped that he would land a better job or be able to go back to medi-cal before it ran out.

a lot of the casualties from covid19 are among those who are poor. here in los angeles, the bottom barrel communities, the ones that work in meat plants and factories and farms, got trashed - cudahay, vernon, san bernandino, etc.

so to answer your question, I can only say that to me, the totality of a nation's health care system ought to be at least in large part judged by its ability to provide a basic modicum of care for all of its citizens.

You confuse "care" with affordability. Our health care is top quality. As for non-insured getting treatment, all you need to do is go to a hospital ER and see uninsured patients being treated. Add in bringing in hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens annually and you are going to stress the system. Back in 1988, UCSD Medical Center lost some $8M per year because of unreimbursed costs of treatment.

Your diabetes employee should look into the 340B program in order to obtain insulin and greatly reduced pricing.
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Old 04-26-2021, 7:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I know..... and I know that he won't just come out and say it. Hence the dissembling when asked.

The problem with socialized medicine is that, should you require a specialist and attention right now for something like cancer or heart surgery, you'll get shuffled off to wait and die in a 9 month que. That is by design - it's cheaper to have you wait and die than to give you the attention you need. That is why Canadians and Brits come here for top-notch urgent medical attention. If the US goes to socialized medicine, the whole world is SOL.
The Brits have a two-tiered medical care system. A government run system that provides low quality care and a "for profit" system that provides higher care. Canada decided they wanted all to suffer equally so they do not allow you to pay extra for better care. They do have some exclusions to that, one being the hernia center that Rand Paul went to.
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Old 04-26-2021, 8:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
\As for non-insured getting treatment, all you need to do is go to a hospital ER and see uninsured patients being treated. Add in bringing in hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens annually and you are going to stress the system. Back in 1988, UCSD Medical Center lost some $8M per year because of unreimbursed costs of treatment.
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley. Several hospitals that used to be there went broke and closed their doors because they were being used by a flood of illegals that were using their facilities as primary care on the taxpayer dime. I remember bringing my mom and dad to emergency rooms only to see it packed with folks using it for non-urgent care.

You can force a for profit enterprise to treat people for free, but you cannot force them to stay open if they are losing money. So, does the community benefit when hospitals close, and those left open are choked with a flood of non-paying non-citizens?

Rhetorical question, of course. Any rational, reasoning person would be horrified by a socialized healthcare system.
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Old 04-26-2021, 8:23 AM
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Numbers do not lie.

Liars figure.

Saw a poll today thet lyin/Biden has a 54% approval rating. Not believing that either.
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  #34  
Old 04-26-2021, 1:44 PM
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Name a better one.
It's one of those European ones where they do 5 year surveys to find out how many women lost children in child birth at home. Super accurate that system, so much so that it shows the US as being the worst WRT child birth issues and infant deaths.
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When the middle east descends into complete chaos in 2-3 years due in part to the actions of this administration I'll necro post about how clueless I was.
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Old 04-26-2021, 4:34 PM
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But only 4.25% of the worlds population.

And the best healthcare system in the world.

Sure glad they are not overcounting COVID deaths in this country.

Can you tell us what the percentage of population are over 65, have underlining health issues like obesity/diabetes compared to ROW?

I'd honestly love to see the numbers.
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