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  #1  
Old 10-12-2014, 9:06 PM
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Default Conceal carry Yosemite National Park

Can you conceal carry in Yosemite National Park? Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:10 PM
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Yes, with LTC

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

Note, that
- discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal
- possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited.

Last edited by riderr; 10-12-2014 at 9:13 PM..
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderr View Post
Yes, with LTC

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

Note, that
- discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal
- possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited.
Thank you for the link.
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:16 PM
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Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Anyone know what facilities in the park are prohibited?
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:22 PM
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I think it will be the federal buildings. Those might include certain gift shops/art galleries and such.
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:23 PM
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Visitor center(s), primarily. Also, other "federal buildings" usually restricted for employee use only.
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Old 10-12-2014, 9:33 PM
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Thank you. Appreciate it.
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Old 10-13-2014, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidly15 View Post
Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Anyone know what facilities in the park are prohibited?
On my recent visit I saw "no firearms" signs on the doors to the post office, visitors center, and I believe the Ansel Adams gallery.

No signs at hotels,stores,restrooms,or trams. I looked very carefully and "Carried On".

Be safe
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Old 10-13-2014, 2:09 PM
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I believe ALL buildings within the park are considered "federal buildings." This includes restrooms, gift shops, etc.
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Old 10-13-2014, 2:17 PM
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I believe it's only restricted to buildings that are staffed by federal employees.
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Old 10-13-2014, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xdjack View Post
On my recent visit I saw "no firearms" signs on the doors to the post office, visitors center, and I believe the Ansel Adams gallery.

No signs at hotels,stores,restrooms,or trams. I looked very carefully and "Carried On".

Be safe
Thank you.
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Old 10-13-2014, 2:53 PM
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No signs at hotels,stores,restrooms,or trams. I looked very carefully and "Carried On".


I believe ALL buildings within the park are considered "federal buildings." This includes restrooms, gift shops, etc.



Ok so which statement above is correct?
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Old 10-13-2014, 2:58 PM
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Took 2 minutes to Google this

Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm
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Old 10-13-2014, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
I think it will be the federal buildings. Those might include certain gift shops/art galleries and such.
This.
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Old 10-13-2014, 3:28 PM
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I will be heading out there this weekend. I will look carefully for signs and carry on. Thank you everyone.
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Old 10-13-2014, 3:53 PM
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So the end result is carry but...............if you have a run in with a BG don't fire it or you will go to federal prison and lose the LTC immediately.
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Old 10-13-2014, 3:54 PM
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Ok, so no one seems to be asking an obvious question, which is, if since 2010 you are allowed to carry in the park as long as you are legally doing so, meaning, you have an LTC, AND ... it is illegal to discharge a firearm in the park for ANY reason, does this then mean that even though you are legally carrying your CCW with an LTC that it would be illegal for you to discharge it for the one and primary reason you have it in the first place, namely, self-defense?
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Old 10-13-2014, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 15thaf5thbw View Post
Ok, so no one seems to be asking an obvious question, which is, if since 2010 you are allowed to carry in the park as long as you are legally doing so, meaning, you have an LTC, AND ... it is illegal to discharge a firearm in the park for ANY reason, does this then mean that even though you are legally carrying your CCW with an LTC that it would be illegal for you to discharge it for the one and primary reason you have it in the first place, namely, self-defense?
Correct
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Old 10-13-2014, 8:50 PM
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I remember having this discussion in here not too long ago. If I remember correctly, a Calgunner actually got it straight from the Yosemite DA that any
discharge of a firearm will be prosecuted. Even self defense.
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Old 10-14-2014, 5:55 AM
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Misdemeanor. May or may not affect the status of your LTC, depending on your IA and its policies/philosophy. They did charge the guy in Glacier NP:

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2014/09/25...cier-shooting/
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Old 10-14-2014, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy View Post
Misdemeanor. May or may not affect the status of your LTC, depending on your IA and its policies/philosophy. They did charge the guy in Glacier NP:

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2014/09/25...cier-shooting/
'course they did. Their job is to discourage ppl from carring guns in NP. I won't be surprised if the judge drops the charges.

Last edited by riderr; 10-14-2014 at 10:46 AM..
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:24 AM
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My thinking is if I have to protect my family and myself I will not hesitate and worry about legal issues later. My opinion.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidly15 View Post
My thinking is if I have to protect my family and myself I will not hesitate and worry about legal issues later. My opinion.
Well, they say the Black Bears don't have a history of charging people, unlike Grizzly Bears. That's why Yosemite has so strict rules. In my view, banning bear spray is ridiculous.
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Old 10-14-2014, 7:57 PM
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You will see a sticker above the entrance door handle that depicts a firearm with the red circle with a cross through it. Don't go in those bldgs.
Entrance doors MUST be clearly marked to be a prohibited bldg.
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2018, 9:08 AM
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Anyone been to Yosemite recently? I'm planning a trip there. Would like to carry, but not at the risk of breaking the law to go to the bathroom, or buy a water... Which buildings have/don't have signs posted?
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2018, 10:59 AM
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A federal building is any building or part thereof owned or leased by the federal government where federal employees are regularly present for performing their official duties.

In my opinion, that includes the restrooms as federal employees clean them.

In open air areas of the park, you are good to carry with a California CCW.
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Old 10-24-2018, 6:59 AM
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As WillyWilly already mentioned, I was able to contact the DA in Yosemite National Park in March of 2012 regarding this very topic. Here is her response;

You are allowed to carry your firearm as long as you have a California
Concealed Carry Weapons permit as you mentioned. If it was an out of state
license, then the answer would be different.

Just like anywhere else, you are subject to all state laws related to the
permit.

Also remember, as mentioned on the website, that discharge of the firearm
for any reason is illegal in the park. There are also certain buildings
that are marked (for instance the visitor center) where it is marked on the
door that firearms are not allowed inside the building.

Sharon Miyako
National Park Service
Yosemite National Park
http://www.nps.gov/yose/
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2018, 7:12 AM
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^ so basically, see post #18.
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Old 10-24-2018, 7:26 AM
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Looks like they are still giving out bad advice:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...fense-illegal/

Unless I'm mistaken (and someone please cite), state law is controlling as although its Federal land, the parks cede control of the jurisdiction to the states. In his case, a self-defense shoot would be the same as any other area where discharge is a crime. If you stand on self defense and can prove it, it comes with the same repercussions.

You should ask your IA what they would do if you had to defend yourself in Yosemite. Would they revoke your permit?
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Old 10-24-2018, 7:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy View Post
Misdemeanor. May or may not affect the status of your LTC, depending on your IA and its policies/philosophy. They did charge the guy in Glacier NP:

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2014/09/25...cier-shooting/
Those charges were eventually dropped
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/texan...-bear-montana/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
Looks like they are still giving out bad advice:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...fense-illegal/

Unless I'm mistaken (and someone please cite), state law is controlling as although its Federal land, the parks cede control of the jurisdiction to the states. In his case, a self-defense shoot would be the same as any other area where discharge is a crime. If you stand on self defense and can prove it, it comes with the same repercussions.

You should ask your IA what they would do if you had to defend yourself in Yosemite. Would they revoke your permit?
There have been more legit self defense shootings in National parks and I know of no one who has been convicted, most were never charged. One guy got charged in 2014 (see above) but the charges were dismissed. And it was the US Attorney prosecuting, not the state. The state cannot prosecute you for a crime that is not a state crime. Only the feds can do that.


http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdo...ase-dismissed/

Quote:
Murphy's attorney, Mr. Jason T. Holden, presented Murphy's case to the government and arguing that Murphy acted appropriately and discharged his firearm in self-defense.

Lucky for Murphy, the judge agreed and dismissed the case with prejudice, meaning that Murphy cannot be re-charged at a later date.

US Forest Service Wants To Charge $1,500 For Wilderness Photography Permits

"In a situation such as Mr. Murphy's, where his life was in mortal danger, he has a right to defend his life," Holden said in the report. "That is not against the law, and that's why the government dismissed this case."

And I don't see state LE patrolling national parks. Fed LE does that. Feds have not ceded control of the national parks to the states. All they say is that visitors must follow both state and fed law. And the county Sheriff must authorize the feds to enforce state law, otherwise they can't. Witness when the El Dorado County Sheriff tore up the agreement allowing Fed LE to enforce state law in the national park.

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/sher...vice-of-power/

Quote:
El Dorado County Sheriff John D’Agostini has been having problems with the U.S. Forest Service since he took office more than two years ago — and now is stripping it of its state law enforcement power in the county and the Eldorado National Forest.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-24-2018 at 7:52 AM..
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Old 10-24-2018, 7:45 AM
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My point about the 2016 article is that nothing has changed with respect to the NPS in terms of disseminating the proper information, as was shown 2+ years ago.

Do you have any links for the cases you mention for the more recent SD shoots? I would like to read up on them.

Thanks
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Old 10-24-2018, 8:01 AM
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Skyhawk, a NP =/= NF. Different rules.

Regardless, if a sheriff (state law) disallows park police (Federal law) from enforcing state law, is it illegal, Federally to discharge your weapon in self defense?

In this case the park has ceded control of the jurisdiction to state law, and without sheriff agreements, park police can only enforce Federal law.
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Old 10-24-2018, 8:13 AM
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I believe that the law states an exemption to verifiable self defense, I don't have time to do some digging for the statute but will later. Either way, I personally would carry, and if I had to use the firearm for self defense, so be it. Better a charge, than dead.
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Old 10-24-2018, 1:57 PM
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Here is another one I quickly found
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...d-preserve6320

Quote:
No Charges Forthcoming In Shooting of Grizzly In Denali National Park and Preserve
Share
By Kurt Repanshek on July 28th, 2010
Denali National Park and Preserve officials have concluded that a man who shot and killed a grizzly bear in the park's backcountry back in May did so in self-defense and will not be charged with any crime.
with an interesting twist, where they deferred to state law which says shooting in defense is legal. Is there any state in the country where shooting in defense is not legal??

Quote:
However, park officials noted Wednesday that, "There is no federal law in national parks which allows the use of a firearm in defense of life; in Alaska, a state statute does allow the taking of wildlife in defense of life under certain circumstances. The actions in this incident likely would have been a legitimate defense of life under state law. Considering this and other evidence in the case, the park will not pursue criminal prosecution."
And here is another at RMNP - the guy was acquitted in a bench trial
https://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/...307300361.html
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...aggressive-elk

Quote:
The hiker who shot the elk, Fort Collins resident Raphael Bresselsmith, was charged with one count of "knowingly using a firearm in a manner that endangered persons or property" and one count of "knowingly taking wildlife."

But in a ruling released in March — following a December bench trial — and obtained by the Daily Camera on Friday, federal magistrate Kristen Mix acquitted Bresselsmith of all charges.

Mix wrote in the ruling that Bresselsmith likely had no reasonable alternative other than to shoot the elk, which had charged at Bresselsmith twice before he shot it three times.

"Encounters between wild animals and humans are largely unpredictable," Mix wrote. "This one had an undeniably sad outcome, but the defendant's actions are excused by necessity."
He was not charged with 'discharging a firearm', he was charged with reckless use and taking game unlawfully.

So now, show me a case where someone in a legit self defense shooting in a NP *was* charged, charges stuck after review by a judge, and then they were even tried and convicted. I've shown two where that law 'no discharge' law fell flat on its face because no one in their right mind would consider that law to hold up under scrutiny in a defense shooting where guns are lawfully carried, in fact so far it has not. The one time they did try to press it, the shooter walked after trial by judge.

I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath. It is simply a farce to say you can carry loaded guns for protection but you can't actually use them when you need to. That 'no discharge' law will never survive a challenge in a lawful shoot. Period.

And last year the Secretary of the interior signed an order to enhance shooting activities on NPS land. I'm not sure how you can do that if you can't discharge a firearm on NPS land.

Secretarial Order 3356 directs bureaus within the department to:

- Within 120 days produce a plan to expand access for hunting and fishing on BLM, USFWS and NPS land.
- Amend national monument management plans to ensure the public's right to hunt, fish and target shoot.

https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/se...hance-wildlife

https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi...ed_so_3356.pdf
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-24-2018 at 2:41 PM..
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Old 10-24-2018, 4:14 PM
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Default Conceal carry Yosemite National Park

Quote:
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Those charges were eventually dropped
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/texan...-bear-montana/
Yeah, as was reported the very day after I posted the comment to which you’re replying four years later.


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Old 10-25-2018, 4:46 PM
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Guess you could argue that COTUS gives you the right to life and thus defending it is allowed, even by discharge of a firearm (if justified, etc) even if the law does not specifically call out defense of self or others are lawful reasons for said discharge
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