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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 11-14-2018, 5:24 PM
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Default Carrying in San Frandumpo

Will be going there for a few days and of course, in that wretched crime filled city I will use the CCW.

Did I read someplace that they banned hollow point rounds? Is that just for sale or even for use in a carry gun?

Lord knows I don't want to rile up the libs in that dirty city..

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2018, 5:50 PM
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On this, Judge Ikuta wrote:
"Because section 613.10(g) affects only the sale of hollow-point ammunition, San Franciscans are free to use and possess hollow-point bullets within city limits….Given the availability of alternative means for procuring hollow-point ammunition, section 613.10(g) imposes only modest burdens on the Second Amendment right."
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Old 11-14-2018, 7:50 PM
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Just don’t bring any Black Talons rounds with you..


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Old 11-15-2018, 7:19 AM
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If you have a valid LTC, and you are in a situation where you have to use it to defend your life or the lives of your loved ones, what kind of ammo or magazines you have is the absolute least thing you have to be concerned with.

I'm carrying lawfully in downtown SF right now and every day of the work week and I don't even think about what kind of ammo I have chambered.

Seriously, the basic rule is always "Don't be stupid" and you'll be fine.
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Old 11-15-2018, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue187 View Post
Just don’t bring any Black Talons rounds with you..


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What about some SXT? lol

I have some Black Talons.. hmmm.. rebel?

Bonus question, what does SXT stand for?
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Old 11-15-2018, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
If you have a valid LTC, and you are in a situation where you have to use it to defend your life or the lives of your loved ones, what kind of ammo or magazines you have is the absolute least thing you have to be concerned with.

I'm carrying lawfully in downtown SF right now and every day of the work week and I don't even think about what kind of ammo I have chambered.

Seriously, the basic rule is always "Don't be stupid" and you'll be fine.
There's a captain obvious joke in here someplace..

I just remember hearing about the loopy city and their "ban" and wanted to make sure I didn't cause myself any additional problems.

Your post was more of the "Don't care about the law" which is an odd tact to take.

You could have saved typing with a "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" quip
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Old 11-15-2018, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by baranski View Post
On this, Judge Ikuta wrote:
"Because section 613.10(g) affects only the sale of hollow-point ammunition, San Franciscans are free to use and possess hollow-point bullets within city limits….Given the availability of alternative means for procuring hollow-point ammunition, section 613.10(g) imposes only modest burdens on the Second Amendment right."
Thanks Baranski.. just the info I was looking for..
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Old 11-15-2018, 3:37 PM
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There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description. Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.
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Old 11-15-2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KLF View Post
There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description. Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.
Just don’t park your car there.

Here you go, OP: https://sanfranciscopolice.org/san-f...ted-ammunition
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Old 11-15-2018, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KLF View Post
There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description. Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.
I don't worry about safety.. but any city that has an official "poop map" is a bit on the dumpy/dirty side.. lol

Kids are looking forward to Alcatraz, Fishermans Warf, Lombard Street and Chinatown.. should be fun.

Where's the best gun store in the city? (sorry, that was a trick question)
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Old 11-15-2018, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Just don’t park your car there.

Here you go, OP: https://sanfranciscopolice.org/san-f...ted-ammunition
Quote:
San Francisco Municipal Police Code 618: Prohibited Ammunition

On April 2013 the San Francisco Board of Supervisors enacted San Francisco Municipal Police Code 618. The following ammunition is prohibited in the City and County of San Francisco:

Winchester Black Talon
Federal Premium "Law Enforcement Ammunition Tactical"
Hornady "TAP (Tactical Application Police) Law Enforcement Ammunition"
You see.. that makes it sound likes it's unlawful to posses..

I run Winchester SXT .. thank goodness it's not Black Talon!! lol
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Old 11-15-2018, 5:44 PM
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Bonus question, what does SXT stand for?
Same eXact Thing
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Old 11-15-2018, 6:22 PM
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Same eXact Thing


LOL


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Old 11-15-2018, 8:30 PM
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Same eXact Thing
lol.. yep.. but the bullets aren't a scary black color or have a scary name.. save us from this stupid state.
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Old 11-15-2018, 9:40 PM
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Its not just the hollow point (by name) as noted above, but they have a city code that is very prohibitive.

http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/police/article36prohibitingthecarryingofafirear?f=templat es$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:sanfrancisco_ca$ anc=JD_3603
Quote:
SEC. 3603. POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED WHILE UPON PUBLIC PREMISES SELLING OR SERVING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person present upon public premises selling or serving alcoholic beverages to possess upon those premises a firearm.
(b) Subsection (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) Peace officers listed in Sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.3, 830.31, 830.4, 830.5, and 830.6 of the California Penal Code, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the federal government who are carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while such person is actually engaged in assisting such officer;
(2) Any person owning, operating or managing said public premises, or any officer, employee, or agent authorized by such person to possess a firearm upon said public premises for lawful purposes connected therewith.
(c) Nothing in this Section shall be interpreted or applied so as to conflict with the preemptive effect of any State law prohibiting the carrying of a loaded firearm in a public place.
sounds like you can't carry in any establishment that has an on-sale liquor license (hotel, bar, restaurant, etc)

and you can't carry on any city or county property (parks, public buildings, etc)

http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/police/article9miscellaneousconductregulations?f=template s$fn=altmain-nf.htm$q=[field%20folio-destination-name:%27617%27]$x=Advanced#JD_617

Quote:
SEC. 617. PROHIBITION AGAINST POSSESSION OR SALE OF FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION ON PROPERTY CONTROLLED BY THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO.
A. Legislative Findings.
(1) The national and statewide statistical information available from numerous sources overwhelmingly demonstrates that the incidence of gunshot fatalities and injuries has reached alarming and thus, unacceptable proportions; and
(2) Government at all levels has a substantial interest in protecting the people from those who acquire guns illegally and use them to commit crimes resulting in injury or death of their victims; and
(3) Recent events throughout the City and County have generated additional fears of random usage of guns to commit violence on unsuspecting residents, children and adults alike; and
(4) The Board of Supervisors finds that crimes and injuries committed with the use of a firearm are prevalent in San Francisco, with local statistics showing an increase in homicides by use of a gun increasing from 39 gun homicides out of 63 total homicides in 2001, which is a 63 percent increase, to 68 gun homicides out of 85 total homicides in 2006, which is an 80 percent increase. Local statistics also show that San Francisco Police Department has seized 1,158 guns in 2005, and 1,104 guns in 2006. In 2007, there have already been 25 gun homicides.
(5) In the City and County of San Francisco, the number of nonfatal injuries from guns has steadily increased. While, in 2001, 81 patients were admitted to SF General Trauma Center for serious injuries resulting from gun shots, the number of patients admitted for serious injuries rose to 228 by 2006. Similarly, the total number of shootings that resulted in nonfatal injuries documented by SFPD was 269 in 2005, 303 in 2006, and in 2007 this number has already reached 105 by May 10; and
(6) Gun crimes in and around schools and on buses carrying students to and from school have become increasingly common; and
(7) In 2003 and 2004, 52 percent of the City's gun violence victims were under the age of 25.
(8) Homicides committed with handguns are the leading cause of firearms related injuries and death in California; and
(9) The widespread availability of illegally obtained firearms has resulted in a significant rise in the number of shooting incidents across the County; and
(10) The Board of Supervisors has authority over the management and control of City and County property, and it may regulate, by ordinance, the manner in which the property of the City and County is accessed and used by members of the public; and
(11) Prohibiting the possession or sale of firearms and/or ammunition on City and County property will promote the public health and safety by contributing to the reduction in the presence of firearms and the potential for gunshot fatalities and injuries in the county. It will increase the confidence of members of the public that they are not at risk of injury from firearms when they seek to use the property and facilities of the City and County. In particular, this Board of Supervisors finds that an enormous number of the general public utilizes the parks, playgrounds and squares of San Francisco. This Board finds that prohibiting the possession or sale of firearms and ammunition on City and County property will help to ensure the safety of the general public and specifically children who are among the most vulnerable in our society; and
(12) The California Supreme Court has ruled that State Law does not preempt local laws banning the possession and sale of firearms and ammunition on their property. In Nordyke v. King (2002) 27 Cal.4th 875, the Supreme Court upheld an Alameda County ordinance banning the possession of firearms and ammunition on county owned property and in Great Western v. County of Los Angeles (2002) 27 Cal.4th 853, the Supreme Court upheld a Los Angeles County Ordinance prohibiting all sales of firearms and ammunition on county property. These rulings uphold the legal ability of the Board of Supervisors to ban the possession and sale of firearms and ammunition on City and County property.
B. Legislative Intent. With passage of this ordinance, the City and County seeks to ensure that its property and facilities are used in a manner consistent with promoting the health, safety and welfare of all of its residents.
Bookmark C.1 Definitions.
(1) City and County Property.
(a) As used in this section, the term "City property" means real property, including any buildings thereon, owned or leased by the City and County of San Francisco (hereinafter "City"), and in the City's possession or in the possession of a public or private entity under contract with the City to perform a public purpose including but not limited to the following property: recreational and park property including but not limited to Golden Gate Park, the San Francisco zoo, Hilltop Park and San Francisco's parks and playgrounds, plazas including but not limited to United Nations Plaza and Hallidie Plaza, community centers such as Ella Hill Hutch Community Center, and property of the Department of Recreations and Parks, the Port, and the Public Utilities Commission.
Bookmark (b)2 The term "City property" does not include any "local public building" as defined in Penal Code Section 171b(c), where the state regulates possession of firearms pursuant to Penal Code Section 171b.
(c) The term "City property" also does not include the public right-of-way owned by the City and County of San Francisco including any area across, along, on, over, upon, and within the dedicated public alleys, boulevards, courts, lanes, roads, sidewalks, streets, and ways within the City or any property owned by the City that is outside the territorial limits of the City and County of San Francisco.
(2) Firearms. As used in this section the term "firearm" is any gun, pistol, revolver, rifle or any device, designed or modified to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion. "Firearm" does not include imitation firearms or BB guns and air rifles as defined in Government Code Section 53071.5.
(3) Ammunition. "Ammunition" is any ammunition as defined in California Penal Code Section 12316(b)(2).
C.1 Possession or Sale of Firearms or Ammunition on County Property Prohibited. No person shall:
(1) Bring onto or possess on county property a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or ammunition for a firearm.
(2) Sell on county property a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or ammunition for a firearm.
D. Exceptions, Ban on Possession. Section C.(1)1 above shall not apply to the following:
(1) A peace officer, retired peace officer or person assisting a peace officer when authorized to carry a concealed weapon under Penal Code Section 12027(a) or a loaded firearm under Penal Code Section 12031(b)(1) and under 18 U.S.C. 926B or 926C.
(2) Members of the armed forces when on duty or other organizations when authorized to carry a concealed weapon under Penal Code Section 12027(c) or a loaded firearm under Penal Code Section 12031(b)(4).
(3) Military or civil organizations carrying unloaded weapons while parading or when going to and from their organizational meetings when authorized to carry a concealed weapon under Penal Code Section 12027(d).
(4) Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks and other financial institutions when authorized to carry a concealed weapon under Penal Code Section 12027(e) and armored vehicle guards when authorized to carry a loaded weapon under Penal Code Section 12031(b)(7).
(5) Persons who are at a target range.
(6) Honorably retired Federal officers or agents of Federal law enforcement agencies when authorized to carry a concealed weapon under Penal Code Section 12027(i) or a loaded weapon under Penal Code Section 12031(b)(8).
(7) The public administrator in the distribution of a private estate or to the sale of firearms by its auctioneer to fulfill its obligation under State Law.
(8) Patrol special police officers, animal control officers or zookeepers, and harbor police officers, when authorized to carry a loaded firearm under Penal Code Section 12031(c).
(9) A guard or messenger of a common carrier, bank or other financial institution; a guard of a contract carrier operating an armored vehicle; a licensed private investigator, patrol operator or alarm company operator; a uniformed security guard or night watch person employed by a public agency; a uniformed security guard or uniformed alarm agent; a uniformed employee of private patrol operator or private investigator when any of the above are authorized to carry a loaded firearm under Penal Code Section 12031(d).
(10) Any authorized participant in a motion picture, television or video production or entertainment event when the participant lawfully uses a firearm as part of that production or event.
E. Exception, Ban on Sale. Section C.(2)1 above shall not apply to the following:
(1) Purchase or sale of a firearm or ammunition for a firearm by a federal, state or local law enforcement agency or by any other Federal, State or local governmental entity.
(2) The public administrator in the distribution of a private estate or to the sale of firearms by its auctioneer to fulfill its obligation under state law.
(3) Sale of ammunition at a target range for use at the target range.
Bookmark F. Penalty for Violation. Any person who violates any of the provisions of this Section 617(c)3 shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $1,000.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed six months, or by both.
G. Severability. If any provision, clause or word of this Section or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid, such invalidity shall not affect any other provision, clause, word or application of this Section which can be given effect without the invalid provision, clause or word, and to this end the provisions of this chapter are declared to be severable.
lots of places off limits with no exemption for regular CCW

So just plan carefully where you go
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Old 11-15-2018, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
You see.. that makes it sound likes it's unlawful to posses..

I run Winchester SXT .. thank goodness it's not Black Talon!! lol
Yes unlawful to possess several by name and anything else intended for LEO etc unless a civilian equivalent is also available

http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/police/article9miscellaneousconductregulations?f=template s$fn=altmain-nf.htm$q=[field%20folio-destination-name:%27617%27]$x=Advanced#JD_617

Quote:
SEC. 618. PROHIBITED AMMUNITION.
(a) Definition. For purposes of this Section, "Prohibited Ammunition" shall mean:
(1) Ammunition sold under the brand name "Winchester Black Talon," or that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to ammunition presently or formerly sold under the brand name Winchester Black Talon; or,
(2) Ammunition designated by its manufacturer for purchase by law enforcement or military agencies only, unless other ammunition is available to the general public that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.
(b) Possession Prohibited; Exceptions. No person, firm, corporation or other entity may possess Prohibited Ammunition within the City and County of San Francisco, except that this subsection shall not apply to the otherwise-lawful possession of Prohibited Ammunition by the following:
(1) Peace officers in possession of Prohibited Ammunition issued to them by their employing agency;
(2) Federal law enforcement officers or other federal employees in possession of Prohibited Ammunition issued to them by their employing agency;
(3) Members of the armed forces of the United States in possession of Prohibited Ammunition issued to them by the military agency to which they belong;
(4) Patrol special police officers, animal control officers or zookeepers, harbor police officers, sheriff's security officers, or police security officers in possession of Prohibited Ammunition issued to them by their employing agencies; or,
(5) Businesses licensed as firearms dealers under this Article in possession of Prohibited Ammunition for sale to law enforcement and military agencies. Agencies employing persons listed in subsection (b)(4) are considered law enforcement agencies for purposes of this Section.
(c) Sale or Transfer. No business licensed as a firearm dealer under this Article may sell, lease or otherwise transfer Prohibited Ammunition except to law enforcement and military agencies.
(d) Police Database. The San Francisco Police Department shall prepare or cause to be prepared a public database of brands and product lines of ammunition meeting the definition of "Prohibited Ammunition" in subsection (a). Failure of the Police Department to create or maintain such a database, or the omission from the database of a particular brand or product line of ammunition otherwise qualifying as "Prohibited Ammunition," under subsection (a), shall not be a defense to or otherwise excuse a violation of this Section.
(e) Penalty. Violation of any of the provisions of this Section is a misdemeanor and upon conviction the violator may be punished by a fine not to exceed $1,000.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed six months, or by both.
(f) Severability. If any provision, clause or word of this Section 618 or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid, such invalidity shall not affect any other provision, clause, word or application of this Section which can be given effect without the invalid provision, clause or word, and to this end the provisions of this Section are declared to be severable.
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Old 11-16-2018, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Ammunition sold under the brand name "Winchester Black Talon," or that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to ammunition presently or formerly sold under the brand name Winchester Black Talon
So they could argue that SXT is the close enough to Black Talon? What a strange vague law. I guess they could argue any expanding hollow point ammo has identical ballistic properties. lol

It will be lovely to see Gavin turn CA into one big San Fran..

Let this sink in.. the Police are supposed to create a database, but if they don't or they leave one off by mistake you are STILL on the hook for a crime..

Quote:
Police Database. The San Francisco Police Department shall prepare or cause to be prepared a public database of brands and product lines of ammunition meeting the definition of "Prohibited Ammunition" in subsection (a). Failure of the Police Department to create or maintain such a database, or the omission from the database of a particular brand or product line of ammunition otherwise qualifying as "Prohibited Ammunition," under subsection (a), shall not be a defense to or otherwise excuse a violation of this Section.
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Old 11-16-2018, 7:44 AM
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Does anyone honestly think SFPD, has time to enforce or even check on city ordinance violations with all the other issues going on in the city?
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Old 11-16-2018, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLF View Post


There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description.


Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.



A little comedy to start your day...

It is not even one of the safest cities in the US.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca...rancisco/crime
"Crime Index

3

(100 is safest)
Safer than 3% of U.S. Cities"

97% of US cities are safer.


Would you buy a car with this kind of safety rating?


Carry if you can. Visit only if you must...


We avoid this stinking, crime ridden, democrat run city like the plague it has become...
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll View Post
It is not even one of the safest cities in the US.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca...rancisco/crime
"Crime Index

3

(100 is safest)
Safer than 3% of U.S. Cities"

97% of US cities are safer.
LOL. Sometimes the truth hurts.
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Old 11-16-2018, 8:08 PM
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April 2013 SFPD Ordinance webpage.. Unchanged from that date.
2013 discussion.
2015 discussion.

Not much new to add, and zero reports of thousands of CCW’ers being cited/arrested.
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Old 11-16-2018, 8:14 PM
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There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description. Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.

LOL to this. Not true


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Old 11-19-2018, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
I don't worry about safety.. but any city that has an official "poop map" is a bit on the dumpy/dirty side.. lol

Kids are looking forward to Alcatraz, Fishermans Warf, Lombard Street and Chinatown.. should be fun.

Where's the best gun store in the city? (sorry, that was a trick question)
You likely already know this, but Alcatraz is off-limits for CCW.
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Old 11-20-2018, 3:43 PM
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There are a couple square blocks in San Francisco that fit your description. Otherwise it's among the safest cities on Earth.
I've been to shootings and stabbings on more than "a couple" of blocks in SF.
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Old 11-20-2018, 4:22 PM
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There are a couple of square blocks in San Francisco that don't fit your description. Otherwise it's among the sh***iest afest cities on Earth.
Fixed it for you.
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Old 11-20-2018, 4:38 PM
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Fixed it for you.


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Old 11-21-2018, 7:23 AM
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Fixed it for you.
That is awesome!!
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Old 11-21-2018, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
I don't worry about safety.. but any city that has an official "poop map" is a bit on the dumpy/dirty side.. lol

Kids are looking forward to Alcatraz, Fishermans Warf, Lombard Street and Chinatown.. should be fun.

Where's the best gun store in the city? (sorry, that was a trick question)
Hadn’t been there in 15 years and last year wife wanted to go. Visited every place you’ll be going. Alcatraz is cool and hoping they are done remodeling so u can see the officers quarters. Ask to visit the basement.
There are a few Chinese restaurants there, one of which Mrs obama frequents, food is good there.
Tbh, other than Alcatraz I wasn’t that impressed and it will probably be another 15 years before I’d be interested in going back.
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Old 11-21-2018, 8:32 AM
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Hadn’t been there in 15 years and last year wife wanted to go. Visited every place you’ll be going. Alcatraz is cool and hoping they are done remodeling so u can see the officers quarters. Ask to visit the basement.
There are a few Chinese restaurants there, one of which Mrs obama frequents, food is good there.
Tbh, other than Alcatraz I wasn’t that impressed and it will probably be another 15 years before I’d be interested in going back.
I will always love visiting Alcatraz. I have some great memories there. But Steve, also consider touring the USS Pampanito WWII submarine and/or the SS Jeremiah O'Brien liberty ship. Both of them are docked right near the Alacatraz boarding area.
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Old 11-23-2018, 8:23 AM
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Any information on ccw on the Ferry?
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Old 11-25-2018, 4:32 PM
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Any information on ccw on the Ferry?
That is why I posted Alcatraz is off-limits earlier. You cannot carry on the ferry. They are considered a common carrier and have prohibited firearms.
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Old 11-26-2018, 6:56 AM
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That is why I posted Alcatraz is off-limits earlier. You cannot carry on the ferry. They are considered a common carrier and have prohibited firearms.
Can't it also be argued that since Alcatraz is a National Park and that the actual reason for going is to go inside the building which is Federal property where Federal employees are employed thus meeting the definition of "federal facility"
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Old 11-26-2018, 7:26 AM
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Can't it also be argued that since Alcatraz is a National Park and that the actual reason for going is to go inside the building which is Federal property where Federal employees are employed thus meeting the definition of "federal facility"
No argument from me there...
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Old 11-26-2018, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pzbike View Post
Any information on ccw on the Ferry?
You need to be a bit more specific. Which ferry system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
Can't it also be argued that since Alcatraz is a National Park and that the actual reason for going is to go inside the building which is Federal property where Federal employees are employed thus meeting the definition of "federal facility"
Alcatraz is not a national park. There are 2 different ferry services running on SF Bay, and the trip to Alcatraz is a tour not a public ferry service.
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Old 11-26-2018, 8:06 AM
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Sorry all, my bad. I was referring to the Golden Gate Ferry from Larkspur to the Ferry building. I wasn’t talking about Alcatraz.
Also, answered my own question.
Thanks
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Old 11-26-2018, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Alcatraz is not a national park. There are 2 different ferry services running on SF Bay, and the trip to Alcatraz is a tour not a public ferry service.
Hmm, its listed on the NPS website

Quote:
The U.S. Department of Interior, National Park Service administers Alcatraz Island as a unit of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GOGA). GOGA is part of the Central California Coast International Biosphere Reserve. Biosphere reserves are designated by the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) to promote education and preservation of diverse and sensitive habitats of international significance.
and from here is looks like it also would include the buildings of the island itself, not just the ferry.

Is your argument that is it not a "National Park", only administered by the NPS?
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Old 11-26-2018, 8:39 AM
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So the line you quoted even say's that it is part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, not a National Park. I never said that the buildings are not federal buildings, since they have been since it was a fort in the middle of the bay.

Here is a link to a list of National Park's Alcatraz is not among them.

https://www.nationalpark-adventures....nal-parks.html
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  #38  
Old 11-26-2018, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
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Sorry all, my bad. I was referring to the Golden Gate Ferry from Larkspur to the Ferry building. I wasn’t talking about Alcatraz.
Also, answered my own question.
Thanks
Sorry, thought you were talking about Alcatraz. I am not sure on the Golden Gate Ferry from Larkspur.
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Old 11-26-2018, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
So the line you quoted even say's that it is part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, not a National Park. I never said that the buildings are not federal buildings, since they have been since it was a fort in the middle of the bay.

Here is a link to a list of National Park's Alcatraz is not among them.

https://www.nationalpark-adventures....ted-parks.html
So its not a "national park" but administered by the NPS (per Title 36 of CFR its listed as an area of the national parks system) but regardless they are Federal buildings as we both noted.
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:11 PM
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Maritime Law indicates that territorial waters are under State law. There were no warnings or signage with regard to our concerns. Only notice was that all are subject to search in heightened security situations.
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