|
Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#121
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Using the BSIS standards shown in Post 69, their range master can run students through the first gun in about 15 minutes. (There's only about 2 minutes of active trigger work, but transition between stages and re-positioning target distance takes a few seconds). That includes initial briefing, range safety, range commands, mounting targets, scoring, etc. The next relays go faster due to less briefing and confusion. Targets get mounted while previous relays are scored. (It's faster to count stuff outside the "7" and subtract.). Then it's back to firing line commands. Three guns (Sacramento maximum) in 45 minutes without breaking a sweat. (OK, the snubby at 7 yds in weak hand, unsupported required a little brain shifting.) Leave the line with the scored targets, and the Admin guy fills out the IA range slips in duplicate, with gun/caliber/scores, keeps the original for file gives you the completion certificate and copy of the slip so you can submit. By the time you're done, and have papers in hand, 4 hours are gone. It's annoying to have to do it,it blows a little over half a day, and it costs money and ammo. On the other hand, the classroom isn't that hard to cope with, and you get to shoot your guns.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#122
|
||||
|
||||
Last point, first:
Quote:
///////// Back to the proper sequence: Quote:
Quote:
Every issue we argue against the antis is parsed and examined in detail, looking for flaws. The problem with asserting that there are "51" states is that any school kid who can see a flag and count can identify the error. Once done, your entire viewpoint can be discredited and discarded simply by noting that you can't get the simplest facts right. Reading about four paragraphs of the Wikipedia article you cited, it's clear that you conflated "states" with "legal jurisdictions" in which the Wiki article includes D.C and Puerto Rico. All that means is you didn't understand your referenced materials. Yet, you based your position on them. Quote:
Otherwise, it's a simple opinion not supported by fact nor by your own source material. The antis couldn't have higher expectations of you; don't make this easy for them. Best.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 10-11-2018 at 8:06 AM.. Reason: Spelling |
#123
|
||||
|
||||
Neither have I and since I teach a CCW class, I've seen a lot of shooters. But most qualifications are very easy. Will they continue to be easy when the IA is setting the score?
Quote:
Quote:
Currently, my shooting portion is two parts; qualification and then self-defense shooting. Here is exactly what I do at the range... Using a B-27E target: 4 shots from 3 yards 6 shots from 5 yards 6 shots from 7 yards 4 shots from 10 yards All shots should be in the silhouette. Then we do: (this is for experience and training, not qualification) 4 Controlled pairs - two shots in two seconds, 4 times 4 shots with the support hand (untimed) Emergency reload drill - Starting with only one round chambered and an empty magazine, fire one shot, reload, fire two shots. This needs to be accomplished in 5 seconds. That makes a total of 35 rounds and generally takes about 45 minutes to an hour depending on individual ability and how many students there are. Since people are paying for the class, I feel they should get some instruction. Most people have never fired with their support hand or even heard of a controlled pair. I want to help them become better shooters and some instruction is better than none. If we have to do multiple guns, the instructor then becomes a referee and won't have time for instruction; just watching the shooting and scoring targets. I don't like that.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#124
|
|||
|
|||
I just re qualified and only shot one gun, 50 rounds in the target at 21 feet. Got qualified for two guns, didn't have to shoot the other one. Spent 15 minutes total on the range, 10 minutes filing out the papers and test. Probably helps that I always use the same instructor for my qualifications! And no, I'm not telling you who I use!
__________________
! |
#125
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Mrs 38Special “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain |
#126
|
||||
|
||||
As of 1 Jan 2019 the requirement will change. The next time you renew, you'll have to actually shoot both guns.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#128
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
They should really do away with qualifications for veterans and classified competitive shooters.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#129
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Having said that, I think the qualification should be done away with altogether. There is nothing about a right that requires proof of ability. I'm putting myself out of a job by saying that, but I believe it to my core. This new law will not make anyone safer.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#130
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#131
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
As a 30-year military retiree, l know a bunch of folks who are, or have been, in the military. The military doesn't spend a lot of time training personnel on handguns. ////// Quote:
The Legislature will either mandate a standard, or dedicate the setting of standard training to the AG and law enforcement reps as is done for the standardization of the application and the license. Next up: standardized Good Cause.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 10-19-2018 at 9:37 AM.. |
#132
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I was including the veterans for two reasons; one their status is easily verified and two liberals that don't know any better think military and LEO are the only ones qualified to handle firearms. So, if they did away with qualifications for the two groups I mentioned earlier it would be a start. Not to mention then I would not have to qualify
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#133
|
||||
|
||||
No, next up is uniform CCW issuance from DOJ at Sacremento only and doing away with local agencies issuing CCWs.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#134
|
||||
|
||||
Eventually, maybe. But local LEOs will fight that. It will be easier to co-opt them into creating constraints to their authority than it will be to fully usurp that authority.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#135
|
|||
|
|||
I got my CCW in North Carolina back around 1995. It required an 8 hour class that included range time. So this California law doesn't seem out of hand at all to me. What I do find weird is having to be licenced to carry a specific firearm. In NC, once I had my CCW I could carry any pistol at my disposal. What's the big deal?
|
#136
|
||||
|
||||
Correct, that is the TRUE intent, but the advertised intent is to make us safer.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#137
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I spent 5 years on active duty and the last 29 as a civilian working for the USAF. Very few in the USAF get trained on guns at all. Those that do, get very little training. Further, I've been through the training they do get and it's not that great. I'm sure I can extrapolate that to the Navy and Coast Guard as well. Along with that, those I see in my class from the Army and Marines are usually only a little better. Military, FBI, LEO in the end are all just people. Only those who regularly practice with their guns are really any good with them.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com Last edited by Rastoff; 10-19-2018 at 12:28 PM.. |
#138
|
||||
|
||||
My apologies, thanks and fixed...not sure how I got your tag in place of Tanks’.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#139
|
|||
|
|||
Actually I am in favor of a uniform statewide standard for the sake of fairness, it is not right that some counties can get away with refusing to issue because all residents of CA should be treated the same no matter where you may reside. I do believe however in five to ten years CA will cease to issue CCW" or restrict it the point of being useless.
|
#140
|
||||
|
||||
I think this guy has an inalienable right to keep and bear arms, but If 30+ years of training produces this, I wouldn’t want to sign a waiver. (Mag Gen Williams is now a Lt Gen commanding the Defense Logistics Agency. I knew him as a BGen at PACOM some years ago, and while I’m sure our association did little to enhance his advancement, I am happy to see that it didn’t de-rail him. )
MajGen Darrel K. Williams, Commander of Fort Lee and the U.S. Army Combined Arms Support Command, a part of Training and Doctrine Command. Unfortunately, the Army Marksmanship Unit is assigned to the U.S. Army Accessions Support Brigade in Recruiting Command.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 05-10-2022 at 3:30 PM.. |
#141
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I see stuff like that all the time. During my class I have some time to help correct potentially hazardous situations just like it. With this new law, I'm concerned that I won't have time for instruction, just qualification.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#142
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If we let the folks in Sacremento define "good cause" then CCW in CA will go away.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#143
|
|||
|
|||
In reality if anything that affects the ability of a CA citizen to receive a CCW differs from county to county then there is not a uniform statewide standard.
|
#144
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Even if we got a favorable ruling on Peruta for GC, Sacramento will then construct a GMC standard that is impossible to meet. But Peruta is dead. SCOTUS denied cert in 2017. I don't understand how ANYONE can honestly believe that a "uniform state standard" legislated by Sacramento will be in any way better than what we have now. The only logical explanation for those that want this is they have the attitude that "I can't have mine so you can't have yours either" As more counties become favorable to issue, Sacramento will gradually tighten the screws and take discretion away from the individual counties. Keep in mind that Sacramento is controlled by people from the "no-issue" counties.
__________________
- Rich |
#145
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#146
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
- Rich |
#147
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I also think CA is lost and any major change toward better gun rights will have to come from the federal level. |
#148
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
There is precedent in regards to restrictive CCW/gun laws (IL, NJ, NY, NYC) so nothing can be done at that level. I am actually surprised that there is not requirement for a permit to purchase a firearm like NJ, NY etc. where the local sheriff can even deny one to buy a firearm based on a good cause/good morals requirement. As horrible as it is to consider, CA is actually more pro gun compared to some of the Eastern States or Hawaii. Once Newsom gets in expect even further deterioration of gun rights as he will sign any and all anti-gun measures whether they make sense or not.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#149
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#150
|
||||
|
||||
That will be the result of what you have been pushing for ever since you joined the forum, and you have been told this the entire time.
There is a difference between "what should be" and "what will be" We SHOULD have fair and unbiased judges that properly interpret the Constitution. We do not have that. We SHOULD have people running the state that accurately represent their voters. We have people running the state that have no interest beyond buying votes (Harris is talking about giving people $500/month if they make less than 100k!) We have mob-rule under the guise of "democracy"
__________________
- Rich Last edited by Cokebottle; 10-20-2018 at 2:56 PM.. |
#151
|
||||
|
||||
The only state wide standard I'd be interested in seeing is one abolishing the CCW license altogether and institution of constitutional carry. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.
__________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#152
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Don't feed the cannibals. |
#153
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
At 00:00:01 on Jan 1, 2019, the following language will be in force: Quote:
I’d suggest you either check with the IA to see if she can renew prior to 1/1/2019, or resign yourselves to having her shoot qualifications in 2019.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#154
|
||||
|
||||
The simple solution to the extended time at the range is the Issuing agencies make the requirement 1 round at 3 yards for each gun (or at least each add-on gun). I doubt any of them will do this though.
On a different note, I am hoping this will grant us the ability to carry in Minnesota. The training requirements are now unified and similar to Minnesota's. We use background checks, and it can be checked 24/7, which are Minnesota's 2 big requirements. The one we miss is mutual reciprocity, but so do some states that Minnesota recognizes (RI, NJ, DE, IL, etc). I am posting the link to their website below. Wouldn't it be funny if this anti-gun law actually ends up helping us?! https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca...-to-carry.aspx
__________________
Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#155
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Their shooting qualification is 5 rounds @ 5 yards, reload, 5 rounds @ 5 yards, clear and show safe. 80% in the upper half of the 7-ring on a B27 is passing. Your suggestion would fit with that standard, but it would not be a uniform standard with their qualification for new applicants, and whether or not that is in the current law, if McCarty caught wind of it, he would immediately introduce a bill that would establish a statewide standard that meets or exceeds NRA Defensive Handgun. So now you're looking at a 30 minute course of fire for each weapon.
__________________
- Rich |
#156
|
||||
|
||||
Maybe I'm missing something here.....
How does this: Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member |
#157
|
||||
|
||||
I was referring to when (not if) McCarty examines the various qualification/training standards (now that they must be published) and introduces a measure to standardize training.
Such training will likely be based on, at a minimum, NRA Defensive Handgun, and possibly even based on BSIS or POST qualification standards. Quote:
Make no mistake... McCarty and the left are moving to reduce and eliminate the discretion of the individual County SO's and move into a uniform state standard that is difficult, if not impossible to comply with.
__________________
- Rich Last edited by Cokebottle; 10-28-2018 at 4:34 PM.. |
#158
|
||||
|
||||
POST qualifications are stupid easy though.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#159
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
And, I doubt that POST standards will get used, as that would imply CCW civilians have firearm training equal to law enforcement. The BSIS aren’t a stretch, either. I’m old, and I qualified with a 5-shot snubby, including reloads.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|