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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#41
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When the time comes to confiscate firearms, and it seems it might be in our lifetimes here in CA, it won't be the Army, Navy, or Marines knocking at your door. It will be a much more local group, like LEA, all grinning and chanting "just following orders"...of course going home after to another one of their special people exemptions. This is why we need a National Policy.
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Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association |
#42
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The anti group will wake up when they must pull a permit to write a newspaper article.
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Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association |
#43
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Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association |
#44
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This is probably too early of a question to ask but I want to get it out here.
Wife and I our coming up for a two year renewal. Safety certificate is good for six months. We take the classroom portion together, my permit is up before the end of the year, hers is up in February, 2019. Our county to date does not require and CCW range qualification. Will she be "grandfathered in" (not having to take the extended four hour class time and range qualification) by the pre 2019 date on her certificate? We belong to a law enforcement operated outdoor shooting facility that allows civilian memberships subject to a background check, train 3-4 times a month with our CCW EDCs so qualifying wouldn't be an issue. |
#45
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I don't disagree. My point is that since the general public supports all LEO exemptions that would be their bare minimum standard. Which from a practical standpoint doesn't have to do with shooting, but passing police academy, POST, etc...
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#46
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The 1A permit will be shall-issue unless you are conservative.
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- Rich |
#47
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I suspect they will require her to follow the new rules.
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Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#48
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You guys that get to list more than a couple of guns on your permit are fortunate. Here in CoCo county we only get two, and have to qualify with each one.
I don't agree with the practice (or the new law), but practically speaking nothing has changed for me. As an aside - qualification was not difficult, and I cannot imagine how one could fail at it. Even with my 2" snub nose, it just wasn't a big deal.
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Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks." Last edited by bigbossman; 09-30-2018 at 9:31 PM.. |
#49
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I assume that in addition to the current charges that we already pay for renewals, there will now be the additional $100 (actually slightly more than that?) range fee every two years?? (san bernardino county)
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Guns and diamonds are a girl's best friends! |
#50
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I just don't see the problem. With the sudden and massive rash of CCW involved shootings, posing exactly the kind of risk this law will mitigate- it only makes sense. Don't believe it? Well here's a list of the unlawful CCW shootings:
Oh wait... |
#51
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Butte county, we get 4 guns, have to shoot all 4 to "qualify" with them(not many rounds though). I think renewal was a 4hr class. Don't remember if original class is 4 or 8hrs. |
#52
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We have a 4 hour class at the Sheriff facility, then straight out to the range for qualification. three 5 shot strings at 5, 7, and 15 yards. Passing score is low so, unless you fumble your draw and drop your gun, you really can't screw it up.
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Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks." |
#53
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Looks like I failed to make my point. So let me try again.
I personally have no problems with certain classroom and training requirements. The reason I have no problems with that "proper training" is a valuable argument against antis' statements that getting a LTC is way too easy. If we can point out that getting and maintaining a LTC is tied to background checks, interview, classroom training and range qualification, we have something of value to bring to the table. I also have no problem with a nation-wide consensus on issuing CCWs. |
#54
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2x5 shot strings at 25, 15, 7, 5, 2 yards. 70% is passing (250 possible points) Each shot worth 5 points If you are allowed to have more than 1 firearm (standard is 1) then you have to score I believe 90 or 95% for both.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#55
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We already require an FSC test and safety handling demo for firearms, but they still raised the age limit to 21 with few exceptions. Doesn't matter if 18-20 are responsible, pass background checks, pass FSC test, complete safety demo. The antis will continue to add layer upon layer of restrictions. As is repeated in these forums over and over again... give them an inch they'll take a mile each and every time. Historically speaking, from what I can gather there has not been a single time Pro2A have given an inch and the Anti2A folks acted reasonably and gave some rights back. If you can name an instance of that working then please give me some hope.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#56
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Is it the same mandated shooting test state wide? Otherwise what's to prevent an issuing agency from making it very difficult? Harder then their own department standard. One way or another you can bet that all department members will pass. The same effort going to be made for ccw applicants?
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#59
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This is what it's all about for the antis. This concept, fundamentally, is what all gun control is about. It's called incrementalism. Look at what happened with the handgun roster in California. First it was, "Oh, we're just going to make this little roster here and do some safety tests on all handguns for sale in California. But don't worry! You'll still be able to buy any handgun you want, as long as the manufacturer is willing to submit it for testing." Then after a few years, it became "Okay, the safe handgun roster is definitely helping make us safer, but we're just going to add a couple of extra requirements to tighten up the safety a little bit. We're going to require every gun to have a magazine disconnect and a loaded chamber indicator in order to qualify for the roster." And then after a few years, it was "Okay, we want to make you even safer. Now we will not accept any pistols for the roster unless they have microstamping." Which, as we all know, isn't even a technology that exists. The end result was that over the span of about 15 years, the California safe handgun roster went from "this is inconvenient but it's not really a big deal" to "THIS IS A TOTAL AND COMPLETE BAN ON ALL NEW HANDGUNS DESIGNED AFTER 2010." And the worst part? Half of the people on this forum don't even know why or how this all happened with the roster, because of the incrementalism approach! We STILL get posts in the Handgun forum asking, "So, when is Glock going to make the Gen 5 California-Compliant?" or "What do I have to do to import a Sig P320?" Democrats are very, very good at playing the looooooooooooong game. They will use incrementalism over the course of a decade or more in order to reach their final goal. Mark my words, this is where CCW in CA is headed. Signing this bill was the single worst thing that Jerry Brown could have done for CCW holders in CA. Now they have reversed the wording from a 16-hour maximum to an 8-hour minimum, they've established a foothold to start piling on more and more restrictions in the name of "training". Ten years from now, the minimum "training" to receive a CCW permit will be 240 hours of in-class training, three different letters of recommendation from three different law enforcement agencies, a five-page statement of good cause, and about $1500 in fees along the way. And the worst part? Ten years from now, there will be idiots on Calguns posting, "WELL, I PERSONALLY HAVE NO PROBLEM..." Last edited by tuna quesadilla; 10-01-2018 at 7:55 PM.. |
#61
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Well, within the 7-ring. I shoot at Old West too, and that is the criteria they always tell people. Range depends on barrel length.
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#62
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And FWIW, believe in Shall Issue or Constitutional carry. And I have zero issue with a person having to demonstrate some minimal ability with their chosen weapons. Based on what I see at ranges, I'm not sure I want some of them CCW around me |
#63
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#64
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Just having a little fun. I fully support the 2A, but I also am not a fan of this "God Given Right" line. I will accept that the ability to defend myself and my family is a natural right, maybe that is close enough. Which, by the way, was the founding thought for Jefferson expressing our right to separate from England.
Last edited by Eureka1911; 10-01-2018 at 7:42 PM.. |
#65
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For all intents and purposes, throughout all of Western history -- Natural Right == God-Given Right God-Given Right == Natural Right It's two ways of saying the same thing. So when people talk about their God-given right to carry a gun, and when you talk about your natural right to self-defense, you're all talking about exactly the same idea. Just clarifying from an academic standpoint. |
#66
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Back on topic, the live fire requirements are up to the IA, so if they are smart they have some basic live fire training for the one of the firearms on the list (like most require now) and the additional firearms just have to show basic proficiency only (safe operation, etc)
I think that San Joaquin county is like that. I know they already need to live fire all the guns on their permit For another point of reference, I just completed the Idaho Enhanced CCW training and the state requirement is to fire 98 rounds at 7 yard silhouette . No accuracy or efficiency requirements. Just be safe about it. Does not matter what gun you use, its more about you being able to safely operate your firearm. |
#67
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The major element added by AB 2103 is this:
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(Targets are standard B57 silhouettes, and any round inside the 7 ring counts as 5 points. 50 rounds can provide a max score of 250; 200 points (80%) are needed to qualify.) Quote:
The next step will be to legislate “good cause”. At that point, the state will be shall issue, but few will clear the hurdle.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#68
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#69
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Humboldt already requires demonstrated proficiency with any firearm listed on your permit. I just do not see the big deal about this. I know we are all dead eye shots with everything we ever shot, but I take comfort in having to prove it. If the cost is prohibitive then I submit you will also not be able to stay proficient over time.
Let's just be happy that strong hand only/weak hand only are not required. |
#70
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#72
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At OC we have "to qualify" with each firearm anyway so not a big deal.
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"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#73
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but do you currently have to requalify every 2 years at renewal time? THAT's where the extra burden comes.....
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Guns and diamonds are a girl's best friends! |
#74
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In Sacramento County, yes.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#75
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Yes, in Contra Costa. We have to sit through the class, take the written test, and re-qualify.
__________________
Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks." |
#76
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Isn't that what I said? Proficiency with each additional firearm...
What does proficiency mean in the new law anyway? If its to safely load and operate the firearm then you could be deemed proficient. If it means specific shooting tasks be completed in a satisfactory manner then that is different. But does that mean some minimum round count and shooting tasks for each firearm (3yd, 7yd, 2 body/1 head, rapid fire, slow fire, movement, etc) or just for one firearm and then basic safe operation of additional firearms? |
#77
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If you are having to slow down in order to shoot weak hand accurately then you are NOT shooting weak hand better.
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"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#78
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"Safe handling" of each, and "Shooting proficiency" with each. How this gets applied consistently throughout the state, and what defines "shooting proficiency" will be next year's legislation/regulation.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 10-03-2018 at 6:03 AM.. |
#79
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Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#80
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You also said you slowed down more than when you were shooting strong hand. Changing the parameters of your previous comment?
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"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
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