|
Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Nah, you're correct and good by me. I was just relating MY recent experience 2-3 weeks ago, to corroborate your notes |
#42
|
||||
|
||||
The level of scrutiny depends on the person/trainers signing off on the certificate.
Each trainer isn't exactly the same as the other. I've had a one inspect every inch of the pistol, including numerous trigger pulls feeling for a connector on a Glock or some trigger pull weight reduction on a 1911. And yet to another who couldn't care less about it, as long as it "looked" stock to him, the gun fired safely and he is convinced I could safely handle the pistol. Last edited by caliberetta; 09-14-2017 at 10:12 PM.. |
#43
|
||||
|
||||
Those of us who originally got their permits prior to Hutchens had to undergo a weapons inspection by the OCSD armorer. The inspection was eliminated to speed up the issuance process. As mentioned in my other post, you took the your guns to the department armorer and he gave them a once over and tested the trigger pull. The standard was five pounds. If you had a 1911 (or whatever) that came from the factor at 3.5 or 4 pounds it wouldn't fly and you couldn't put it on your permit.
|
#44
|
||||
|
||||
Good thing the "standard" is no longer applicable. I am planning on putting my competition guns on my permit as I don't want to worry about locking my range bag every time I drive. The trigger pulls from the factory are 1.75 lbs for both. Obviously, I'd never carry them as CCW, don't even have a regular holster for them.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Seriously this thread is going to get the attention of OCSD. I already heard all training providers have been put on notice and the standard is being tightened up considerably. To hear a training provider is not inspecting weapons would be a reason for him to be removed from the approved list. We have a great thing in OC and all it's going to take is for a couple of clowns to ruin it for everyone. Our Sheriff has been very helpful in improving the process and by what I'm reading, she's got them operating very effectively in the CCW office. Kudos to them.
Just my 2cents. If anyone feels I'm wrong, I get it and it's the chance they take. Training providers are not the same and everyone here knows that. Some of us believe we know it all, and don't need the training. This is my first issued license so we'll see how much I'll forget. My LE friend told me my CCW is the last resort, not the resource that makes me a billy bad butt and can take on the world with my modified trigger (my guns are 100% stock). Again, let's not screw this up for us getting issued to and the training providers that should be conducting business professionally to the standard. Hope that makes sense. Last edited by Mibairho; 09-15-2017 at 6:32 PM.. |
#46
|
||||
|
||||
I fail to see how having a modified trigger that makes the firearm more usable be equated to an attitude that means one "can take on the world".
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Can or Should modify? Lets see Prosecutor - "You modifed your weapon to make it easier to rapidly change magazines. Sir do you often feel the need to shoot you victim more than 10 times? "
Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Spoken like a true OSHA man |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
I'll play...
First, if a "Prosecutor" is involved, the State is trying the case as a criminal act after finding the shooting was not justified. The Prosecutor will be relying on substantiated facts to make the case. The types of questions posed below might come from a tort attorney in a civil case simply because this is California and the facts have already been reviewed by the State and not pursued, or the shooter was successfully defended against the criminal charges. Quote:
|
#51
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
The scenarios might be entertaining, but more than improbable in the real world. Thanks for playing
__________________
True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
#52
|
||||
|
||||
That expert witness and the defense attorney who's on the ball with the objections don't come cheap. By the time they're through with you, you'll be lucky if you can afford Schlitz.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member, SAF Life Member, CCRKBA Life Member Gavin Newsom is a lying, cheating slickster and |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Again, whether you modified the firearm is irrelevant... you will likely end up in civil court anyway.
__________________
Quote:
|
#54
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If it's criminal prosecution, I'm sure a few years in prison will go quickly. CA pens now have "beer nights", right? If it's civil, just pull your checkbook and ask, "How much?" Jeez. |
#55
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The point I was making here is that competent legal representation and expert witnesses are expensive, nothing more. I should know - I see my bills before they go out. Rather than suggesting that proceeding in pro per is a viable option, I was pointing out that even if everything goes as well as it could, a wrongful death suit will put the defendant in a world of financial hurt. Every issue that you have to litigate, such as the motion in limine that will need to be filed to exclude that irrelevant evidence, just keeps increasing the bill. For better or for worse, it costs money to prove that you’re right. Personally, I would want to take steps to minimize the possibility of distracting issues, but the specific calculus of what modifications will improve my chances in a self defense scenario are worth the added down line risk is for me alone to make - obviously I can’t (and won’t) tell anyone where to draw the line, but I think we can all recognize there is a line. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member, SAF Life Member, CCRKBA Life Member Gavin Newsom is a lying, cheating slickster and |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Reading SamsDX it looks like someone knows how the real world works. Those motions in limine to exclude are all important and the judge has a good deal of discretion as to what will be excluded. Even then, the pretrial ruling educates a smart prosecutor as to how they can lay a foundation to get their evidence admitted.
Also, objections don't always do much even when sustained. You can't unring the bell. Sure a conviction can be reversed on appeal, if critical evidence is excluded and the jury instructed to disregard, for what good it will do if there is sufficient evidence to sustain the conviction in absence of the inadmissable. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Np\ow what happens if you shoot someone with an altered previously approved firearm. Is the prosecutor and/or the plaintiff's attorney going to claim that you were carrying without a license? Last edited by Chewy65; 11-05-2017 at 1:21 AM.. |
#59
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
|
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by redteam22003; 11-05-2017 at 8:53 AM.. |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
This was not related to CCW licensing, but when I first visited the OCSD range my P229 to shoot as a civilian. The Sig was inspected by a range officer wh checked that it had a magazine disconnect. I believe he may have checked the trigger pull by simply dry firing it. Had it seemed light, I don't think he would have had any trouble producing a trigger pull gauge. Your CCW trainer/qualifier may be checking your guns without you realizing it.
Last edited by Chewy65; 11-07-2017 at 2:29 PM.. |
#62
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#63
|
||||
|
||||
I've read every post made here. I'm still at zero. Every point made has a counter point. So I'll just present my case and let those interested share their word.
I purchased Cajun Gunworks "Old Style" trigger for my CZ PCR (link: https://cajungunworks.com/product/75...style-trigger/). It does not change, at all, the trigger pull. Aside from the sights and grips, that is the only modification I want to make; the new recurve triggers on most new factory CZ handguns have a tendency to cause trigger bite. I have not called the OCSD office.... but reading this thread, I'm nervous to call anyone! Seems if I get the 'wrong' person, they'll say, no mods you moron. And if I get the 'right' person, they'll say, you're fine, don't worry about it. I'd like not to return this trigger... what say you? There was a great mix of opinions here and no real consensus reached.
__________________
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:6-7 "Liberty, as well as honor, man ought to preserve at the hazard of his life, for without it life is insupportable." - Miguel de Cervantes Let your desires and emotions be ruled by reason. |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#65
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Choose your holster carefully and get a lot of practice in. |
#66
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
My attorney will certainly be on my side.
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
#67
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
A lot of people seem to think there is only one attorney at a trial. You get an attorney, and he should be earning his pay.
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
#68
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Did you even read the first part of the thread where permitted mods were listed? Last edited by tomrkba; 12-06-2017 at 4:14 AM.. |
#69
|
||||
|
||||
Does anyone here have a 1911 approved that has work done? I haven't read anything here without conflicting arguments.
I just dropped off my Colt Wiley Clapp to get a thumb saftey installed and ended up going big since I was there. Reliability job (polished and throated), and a harrison trigger and ignition kit done. There will be a 3.5-4 lb trigger pull which isn't much different than it was before. Will this fq the gun from being a future ccw permit?
__________________
|
#70
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I would contact the OCSD CCW unit to be sure, but my conversations with them would seem to indicate that they have become quite restrictive regarding modifications from stock, beyond sights and grips...
__________________
Discreet, Legal Carry in 37 States... |
#71
|
||||
|
||||
Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'd be willing to dail back my modifications to keep it eligible...maybe. it wouldn't be a primary carry option anyway, but the option to have it qualified would be nice.
__________________
|
#72
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
See #n, (link) second from the bottom. The way you describe the work I would say it’s a no-go just based on the terms of license. Sure no one may check, but if you ever need to use the gun they will check it and will say you’re in violation of the terms of your permit. Then they (or the DA) could say you’re essentially carrying without a permit. Back in the day you had to go to the armory to get your trigger pull checked. It definitely wouldn’t have passed back then. If you call and ask they’ll more than likely tell you no. YMMV. https://www.ocsd.org/gov/sheriff/abo.../ccw/terms.asp Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Sent from Free America Last edited by Doheny; 10-28-2018 at 4:27 PM.. Reason: syntax |
#73
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
|
#74
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
No, he woudnt have a document. My firearms were inspected and approved by an approved CCW insructor. They are listed on my license by serial number. There is no other document, and they ARE approved.
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Citadelgrad87; 10-28-2018 at 2:38 PM.. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
ccw modifications
Quote:
https://www.ocsd.org/civicax/fileban...x?BlobID=73535 Edited for brevity:> 9) Restrictions by Act: Any of the following or similar acts while in possession of a firearm shall be considered a violation of the licensee’s general responsibilities as specified below: m. possessing a weapon altered from its originally approved design, or weapon not listed on the license, ... I read this that being in possession of a weapon that has been modified from the original design is a violation of the permit. Of course some may argue differently, but my position is we are lucky to have a Sheriff that is issuing, and I am not going to push the envelope in any way whatsoever. |
#77
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Thanks for the necro tour, Now, back to current day....Yay, Red Sox! Best.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Btw....just cause an instructor approved a firearm, doesn’t mean it’s falls witting the guidelines of OCSD and is valid on a permit
An instructor can miss the updated trigger, internals, etc...and still “approve” it. That does not mean OCSD has approved as well. Instructors should be looking at the guns throughly to makes sure they meet the standards. If an instructor approved a firearm outside of the guidelines it does not mean OCSD will honor that. It means the instructor failed to do their job. OCSD is the final word. Instructors should be doing their jobs so CCWs aren’t blown for everyone cause of slackness on their end. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#79
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#80
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Also, some guns do come with light triggers. Two of my guns came from the factory at 1.25 lbs trigger pull. Albeit I don't carry them, but they are on the license as a convenience.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|