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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 09-04-2017, 9:50 PM
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Default Modifications affecting CCW in Orange County

Hi Calguns

I have a new Glock 19 Gen 3 bought in Orange County. I made 2 changes to it by installing a Glock Factory Extended Slide Stop Lever and Glock Factory Extended Magazine Catch.

Do these changes come into play and affect the requirements of CCW that no internal changes have been made?
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Old 09-04-2017, 9:53 PM
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Specifically I refer to this clause on the OC Sheriff Dept website.

The alteration of any previously approved firearm including, but not limited to, adjusting the trigger pull or making other modifications that create an unsafe weapon (Penal Code § 31910) shall void any license and serve as grounds for revocation.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:19 PM
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I was told we cannot modify a firearm from the original manufacturers specifications. Only exception are sights, grips, and adding a laser and/or a flashlight.

Your training provider is the one who inspects your firearm. Just don't get caught with a modified gun. Instant revocation!
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Old 09-05-2017, 8:42 AM
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You might contact the Sheriff's Department and ask if those particular modifications would invalidate carry if you were to make them.

It appears that these don't modify the trigger. If you can articulate a reason (hand geometry and being able to reach the releases, for instance), you might be able to get them to authorize it. Just make sure the trigger isn't modified from factory specifications.
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysupersonic View Post
Specifically I refer to this clause on the OC Sheriff Dept website.

The alteration of any previously approved firearm including, but not limited to, adjusting the trigger pull or making other modifications that create an unsafe weapon (Penal Code § 31910) shall void any license and serve as grounds for revocation.
Correct statement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
I was told we cannot modify a firearm from the original manufacturers specifications. Only exception are sights, grips, and adding a laser and/or a flashlight.

Your training provider is the one who inspects your firearm. Just don't get caught with a modified gun. Instant revocation!
Incorrect Statement!
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Old 09-05-2017, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
Correct statement!



Incorrect Statement!

Please tell me what part is incorrect. I'm pretty confident in my reply. Maybe I wasn't clear. If by some chance your training provider doesn't catch the modification and your weapon is later inspected by a LE officer and he reports back to your IA, in OC, you will be revoked.
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Old 09-05-2017, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysupersonic View Post
Hi Calguns

I have a new Glock 19 Gen 3 bought in Orange County. I made 2 changes to it by installing a Glock Factory Extended Slide Stop Lever and Glock Factory Extended Magazine Catch.

Do these changes come into play and affect the requirements of CCW that no internal changes have been made?
You do not need to worry about those modifications.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2017, 2:28 PM
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Thanks for the inputs folks. I'm in the exact same situation.... I just got the extended mag release and slide release by UPS....
Picking up the G19 from Titan in Irvine this afternoon... nice to have a gun shop in Irvine!
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Old 09-05-2017, 2:32 PM
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Just before I added a laser sight to one of my EDC firearms, I contacted the OCSD and they said it was OK (after a warning they gave me how distance affects trajectory and aligning/calibrating the laser).

I think the "unsafe" verbiage includes not changing out the trigger to something lighter, etc.
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Old 09-05-2017, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
You do not need to worry about those modifications.
I think you should call the CCW unit to verify those modifications are ok. Anyone want to bet lunch on it?
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:37 PM
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I agree you should call. I just took the training today and they stressed that you can and should do work that enhances the reliability of your gun (action job i.e.) but not to do anything that would effect the firearms safety.

They stressed that the gun should still be within the design specs of the stock firearm. Meaning they implied a trigger job that smoothed the pull or enhanced the break was good but one that lightened the trigger pull below the stock spec would not be.

My guns I am putting on will be stock outside of sights. I can hit anything I need to at CCW ranges with a stock gun and they are reliable as the day is long. The stock controls are good for me as well, your needs may be different.

I had one malfunction. Out of spec round, Winchester white box. I just picked it up at a Wally World because I did not want to use my handloads. The round would not allow the my Glock to go into battery. I thought I did not have the mag seated and it FTF. Tapped and racked and it ejected the round and I kept shooting.

As the changes you are talking about don't touch the fire control I would expect you to be OK but I would disclose it when you go through you training as it seams the instructions are the first line.
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
Please tell me what part is incorrect. I'm pretty confident in my reply. Maybe I wasn't clear. If by some chance your training provider doesn't catch the modification and your weapon is later inspected by a LE officer and he reports back to your IA, in OC, you will be revoked.
You CAN modify a weapon beyond original specs. There are way more details to get involved in, but basically they dont want unsafe weapons in the publics hands (Trigger #'s, modified barrels, conversion barrels, etc).

I have the following and I passed inspection and I had them reviewed by the OCSD as well.

1911 mods I made: Bobtail, beavertail, trigger, hammer, sights, de-horned.

Shield: CA version mods I made - I took off all CA crap = Magazine release, loaded chamber indicator, added sights and an apex trigger. Also, stippled.

Glock 23: Stock minus some stippling.
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Old 09-06-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
You CAN modify a weapon beyond original specs. There are way more details to get involved in, but basically they dont want unsafe weapons in the publics hands (Trigger #'s, modified barrels, conversion barrels, etc).

I have the following and I passed inspection and I had them reviewed by the OCSD as well.

1911 mods I made: Bobtail, beavertail, trigger, hammer, sights, de-horned.

Shield: CA version mods I made - I took off all CA crap = Magazine release, loaded chamber indicator, added sights and an apex trigger. Also, stippled.

Glock 23: Stock minus some stippling.

On your Shield and removing the mag disconnect....you SPECIFICALLY asked OCSD about it and got an "OK" ?

I bought mine PPT and it was already removed....about to finalize initial CCW permit and it's one of my list guns. Wondering if I need/want to restore it.....
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
You CAN modify a weapon beyond original specs. There are way more details to get involved in, but basically they dont want unsafe weapons in the publics hands (Trigger #'s, modified barrels, conversion barrels, etc).

I have the following and I passed inspection and I had them reviewed by the OCSD as well.

1911 mods I made: Bobtail, beavertail, trigger, hammer, sights, de-horned.

Shield: CA version mods I made - I took off all CA crap = Magazine release, loaded chamber indicator, added sights and an apex trigger. Also, stippled.

Glock 23: Stock minus some stippling.

Seriously, you are giving many people bad advice. Call the unit supervisor and ask him directly. You are incorrect on what can be modified. Sights, and grips are ok. You can also add a laser and/or flashlight. That's it, I know because he just answered my question.
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2017, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
On your Shield and removing the mag disconnect....you SPECIFICALLY asked OCSD about it and got an "OK" ?

I bought mine PPT and it was already removed....about to finalize initial CCW permit and it's one of my list guns. Wondering if I need/want to restore it.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
Seriously, you are giving many people bad advice. Call the unit supervisor and ask him directly. You are incorrect on what can be modified. Sights, and grips are ok. You can also add a laser and/or flashlight. That's it, I know because he just answered my question.
Not just assumed or asked! Passed a physical inspection by both OCSD and an instructor.

Do you, do what you want. Carry and defend your family with what you are comfortable with. I am just giving my real world feedback.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2017, 9:35 AM
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I can't resist jumping in and doing the "River Dance" on a DEAD HORSE....holly crap....

MHO...for what it's worth, why the hell would you modify your CCW? We're talking about a 3 - 5 yard defensive shot AT BEST. Anything more than that you shouldn't be in the fight. You're now officially in a IDPA match and heading to jail afterwards. I know, I know....there are exceptions but come on guys.....why test the system. Modify the crap out of your OTHER guns.

Ok, I'm done.....
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
You CAN modify a weapon beyond original specs. There are way more details to get involved in, but basically they dont want unsafe weapons in the publics hands (Trigger #'s, modified barrels, conversion barrels, etc).
So, the OCSD Terms of Issuance you signed don't exist? http://www.ocsd.org/civicax/filebank...x?BlobID=31605
Quote:
Terms Of the License: The license holder shall agree to abide by the following terms for carrying a concealed weapon. [
Failure to do so shall result in the immediate suspension of the CCW license.
Following an investigation by the CCW Licensing Unit into the matter, a determination will be made for re- issuance of the CCW.
8. [B]Restrictions by Act[b]: Any of the following or similar acts while in possession of a firearm shall be considered a violation of the licensee’s general responsibilities as specified below
m. possessing a weapon altered from its originally approved design, or weapon not listed on the license,
n. possessing any equipment or attachments to a firearm not specifically approved as a part of the license,...
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2017, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
So, the OCSD Terms of Issuance you signed don't exist? http://www.ocsd.org/civicax/filebank...x?BlobID=31605
They exist and I follow them to a "T"

Correct - I have not modified or do I carry a weapon that is altered from its APPROVED design. I don't carry anything not SPECIFICALLY approved. Aka - OCSD approved my design and I carry it unmodified from that approval.

Thanks for posting that! Reiderates what I said.
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Old 09-07-2017, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downdiver2 View Post
They exist and I follow them to a "T"

Correct - I have not modified or do I carry a weapon that is altered from its APPROVED design. I don't carry anything not SPECIFICALLY approved. Aka - OCSD approved my design and I carry it unmodified from that approval.

Thanks for posting that! Reiderates what I said.
Try again....it's, "...originally approved design." You are not the original designer.

If the changes you made were specifically approved by OCSD, you would have a document confirming that. If you had such a document, you would have said so, but you didn't, so you don't.

But, enjoy your specially-designed reality.

(And the term is, "reiterates".)

Best.
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Old 09-07-2017, 8:58 PM
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I called, mentioned the exact parts this thread referenced and asked about trigger jobs. All are considered modifications from the original manufacturer's specifications. The sarge said "sorry" those guns can't go on my CCW.

In the end, we all can interpret policies differently. The sarge said he welcomes any calls if we have a question. He was really easy to talk to and very knowledgeable on firearms. He did make it clear, "don't get caught with a modified firearm." Thanks Sarge!

Do what you want, but I'm not going to chance losing something that took me too long to get. Here's an idea. Maybe save your money and buy a higher quality firearm from the start. That way it won't need any modifications.
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Old 09-08-2017, 1:43 PM
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Im 100% confident in what I carry, the paperwork I had obtained for my inspection, which is in my safe and approved again by OCSD themselves. I even have the receipts that show dates of mods which is prior to date of inspection. Pissing match over.
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Old 09-09-2017, 3:19 PM
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No pissing match, just want other subscribers here to know facts. I'm certain you don't have any inspection paperwork that says you have an approved modified handgun. Handguns that are modified cannot be on your CCW!

Now the pissing match is over.
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Old 09-10-2017, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
I think you should call the CCW unit to verify those modifications are ok. Anyone want to bet lunch on it?
Im pretty familiar with OC CCW. I don't think anyone will have a heart attack over an extended slide stop lever on a Glock, and like I said, the OP should probably not stress out over it. Lots more important things to worry about, being a new CCW permit holder.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
Im pretty familiar with OC CCW. I don't think anyone will have a heart attack over an extended slide stop lever on a Glock, and like I said, the OP should probably not stress out over it. Lots more important things to worry about, being a new CCW permit holder.
This.
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Old 09-11-2017, 1:18 PM
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Default Email response from OCSD

I decided to email OCSD because I was interested in putting in an aftermarket trigger in my CCW weapon. This is their response...

CCW Permits <CCWPermits@ocsd.org>
Today, 8:11 AM
Good morning,
In regards to your question about modifying the trigger pull. Any firearm
placed on the license must be in its original manufacturers condition. No
alterations may be made to the firearm.
Thank you

From: khiemp
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:14 PM
To: CCW Permits <CCWPermits@ocsd.org>
Subject: Aftermarket Parts on CCW
Hi,
Is it ok to install an aftermarket trigger to a CCW handgun? Is there a
minimum # trigger pull? Can the internals be polished?
Thanks!
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  #26  
Old 09-11-2017, 4:05 PM
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As the CHP will tell anyone that you cannot go even 1mph over the speed limit, OCSD will say no alterations whatsoever can be made to a listed CCW.

Altering the trigger versus an extended slide stop are 2 different things, just as going 1mph versus 30mph over the speed limit is two different things. Just use common sense.

We do not need to write the CHP nor the OCSD asking dumb questions, as more important things are at hand.
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Old 09-11-2017, 8:02 PM
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It's just their way of saying, "we are not liable for that idiots ND." Is your pistol unsafe? I agree that common sense rules the day. If you have a ND or AD and can't point the fingure at anyone but yourself, that is going to be your problem.
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Old 09-13-2017, 8:42 AM
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There are no dumb questions, especially for someone who is new to CCW. There is also a lot of misinformation. You can provide facts or speculation, it is up to the person to decide what to do.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khiemp View Post
There are no dumb questions, especially for someone who is new to CCW. There is also a lot of misinformation. You can provide facts or speculation, it is up to the person to decide what to do.
I did not mean to offend anyone that is asking questions...

It was meant for people that find the need to contact an already inundated Agency with questions about things that (1) the Agency has already made abundantly clear during the CCW Process by documentation and training, and (2) the obvious Law Enforcement response to altering triggers.
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Old 09-13-2017, 1:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupulepeter View Post
If you have a ND or AD and can't point the fingure at anyone but yourself, that is going to be your problem.
Who else's fault would it be?
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Old 09-13-2017, 2:01 PM
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Just keep this thought in mind. If you have to shoot somebody with your CCW weapon somebody will sue you, either the suspect or one of their many family members. No matter what the modification was, some *** hat attorney will crucify you for shooting his client with a modified weapon.
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Old 09-13-2017, 3:15 PM
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Here a question for everyone... Say you have an aftermarket trigger and you go to your ccw inspection/qualification they do the trigger pull weight test and you do your 72 rounds and pass. What happens now?
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Old 09-13-2017, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by xdjxklusivex View Post
Here a question for everyone... Say you have an aftermarket trigger and you go to your ccw inspection/qualification they do the trigger pull weight test and you do your 72 rounds and pass. What happens now?
You go onto CalGuns and ask a question?
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Old 09-13-2017, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mike415stone View Post
Just keep this thought in mind. If you have to shoot somebody with your CCW weapon somebody will sue you, either the suspect or one of their many family members. No matter what the modification was, some *** hat attorney will crucify you for shooting his client with a modified weapon.
This 100%. Seriously, why take the chance?
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Old 09-13-2017, 3:58 PM
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You go onto CalGuns and ask a question?
Just putting another scenario out there
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Old 09-13-2017, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysupersonic View Post
Hi Calguns

I have a new Glock 19 Gen 3 bought in Orange County. I made 2 changes to it by installing a Glock Factory Extended Slide Stop Lever and Glock Factory Extended Magazine Catch.

Do these changes come into play and affect the requirements of CCW that no internal changes have been made?
I asked the same question at my renewal class this past weekend.
I was told that these modifications could be described as "safety mods" and would be acceptable.
Instructor stated that trigger work would not be (his description) a safety mod.

Last edited by dennis9288; 09-13-2017 at 4:04 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdjxklusivex View Post
Here a question for everyone... Say you have an aftermarket trigger and you go to your ccw inspection/qualification they do the trigger pull weight test and you do your 72 rounds and pass. What happens now?
What trigger pull test? None of the firearms I had gotten a permit for in the last few years ever had their trigger pull tested. How would one even know what is set at the factory?
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Old 09-13-2017, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdjxklusivex View Post
Here a question for everyone... Say you have an aftermarket trigger and you go to your ccw inspection/qualification they do the trigger pull weight test and you do your 72 rounds and pass. What happens now?

There actually used to be a trigger pull test when OCSD inspected your guns. I had it done to my three. You'd go to the department armorer and he'd check the condition of your guns and test your trigger pull.

That's where the "no modifications" language come from; they didn't want you modifying your trigger from what it had been approved by OCSD.





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  #39  
Old 09-13-2017, 6:31 PM
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OCSD no longer has an armorer pass your gun. In fact, the training class for CCW doesn't check the "validity" of the gun, either. My trainer just signs off on you passing the shooting test....no "gun check".

I asked another CCW class trainer about mods....he said "I don't care what you do to your gun." In other words, it's not up to them.

It's all about OCSD and what they say.
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2017, 7:25 PM
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Doheny Doheny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
OCSD no longer has an armorer pass your gun. In fact, the training class for CCW doesn't check the "validity" of the gun, either. My trainer just signs off on you passing the shooting test....no "gun check".

I asked another CCW class trainer about mods....he said "I don't care what you do to your gun." In other words, it's not up to them.

It's all about OCSD and what they say.
If you're making reference to my post, you'll notice the past tense re: armorer's inspection.
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