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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#1
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Illegal to carry while wearing a mask
With today being Halloween, I just wanted to remind everyone that it is illegal to wear a mask while armed in California.
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#2
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How big of a mask? A clown's nose? What about facepaint?
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#3
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While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 25300(a)]
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#4
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I am out and about right now, but it is actually a penal code section. I will look up the section when I get a chance.
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#5
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Common sense in a world gone mad...
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Discreet, Legal Carry in 37 States... |
#6
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I should have looked before looking up the section. Yes 25300(a) PC...
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#7
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I don't agree with the law (um Halloween!). Just pointing it out for people.
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#8
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So your in agreement that today is the best day to commit robberies and murders. There is a reason why you cannot CCW while wearing a mask. So if your dressed alike and with the same mask. One in your group commits armed robbery and you get grabbed. Your innocent but guilty by wearing the same mask. Similar type of clothing. Do you really want to take that chance.? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#9
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#11
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agreed. That is what I am doing. This is one of those restrictions that most people forget though...That is the only reason I reminded everyone...
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#14
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Yup, what a shocker that the powers that be in Sacramento do not think of the people who live in the colder areas of the state like the mountains and NorCal!
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#15
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There's got to be an "I only take my mask off for October 31st" joke floating around in that someplace.
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"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#16
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Adults, the only ones authorized to CCW, wearing a custume forfeit their right to conceal for two reasons.
Why? Criminals have long chosen disguises to delay and prevent apprehension. Psychologist have documented that people act very different while in disguise, and in large groups, feeling that their behavior is without consequence.
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Discreet, Legal Carry in 37 States... |
#17
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Wearing a costume while trick-or-treating with your kids demonstrates a lack of maturity?
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"The right to keep and bear arms . . . is not the only constitutional right that has controversial public safety implications. -- Justice Alito, McDonald v. Chicago |
#18
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if you live in a crazy place where progressive socialist LE control the area too bad, most rural LE in CA would be able to discern between the "letter" and "spirit" of the law mentioned and would not harass a legal CCW holder on Halloween.
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#19
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illegal in CA, unless your Auntie Fah
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1884858 |
#20
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Penal Code 25300
(a) A person commits criminal possession of a firearm when the person carries a firearm in a public place or on any public street while masked so as to hide the person’s identity. (b) Criminal possession of a firearm is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year. (c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following: (1) A peace officer in performance of the officer’s duties. (2) A full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state. (3) Any person summoned by any of the officers enumerated in paragraph (1) or (2) to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace while that person is actually engaged in assisting that officer. (4) The possession of an unloaded firearm or a firearm loaded with blank ammunition by an authorized participant in, or while rehearsing for, a motion picture, television, video production, entertainment event, entertainment activity, or lawfully organized and conducted activity when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that production, event, or activity. (5) The possession of a firearm by a licensed hunter while actually engaged in lawful hunting, or while going directly to or returning directly from the hunting expedition.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#22
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But when you parse out the words of the statute, that not what it provides. It the statute used words like "intent to conceal" or "for the purpose of concealing", I would agree with your conclusion. Such language indicates a purpose for the concealment and the violation is contingent on that purpose being present. But the statute used the words "so as to hide the person’s identity." That language communicates an effect of wearing the mask. "Purpose" and "Effect" are quite different things. I agree with prior posters that no reasonable LEO would take enforcement action based on a Halloween fact setting, but the law does permit an unreasonable LEO to do so.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
#23
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"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#24
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There are quite a few penal laws in California that have similar issues. You usually don't hear about them because the legal technicalities are hidden through the reasonable enforcement efforts of LEO's and prosecutors. When I was an FTO, a lot of effort went into creating a good understanding of Penal Code section 4, and to create the view that the law is a tool to accomplish appropriate ends, and not something to be blindly enforced.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
#25
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Bottom line is that I will not rely on an officer enforcing the "spirit of the law." All it takes is one to enforce the letter of the law and create a headache for me.
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Utah CCW Handgun 101 NRA Basic Pistol Private Instruction Classes are held statewide www.whitesofeyes.com (209) 330-3900 |
#27
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If you desire a day in court to test your interpretation of these laws, knock yourself out.
Assuming that the law allows for or exempts good intent is humorous at best...
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Discreet, Legal Carry in 37 States... |
#28
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Hell, I'd argue that the even intent to conceal -by itself- is insufficient absent a malicious motive. Should a famous person be forced to go grocery shopping unarmed if they wear a hat and oversized sunglasses? If the law is with you, argue the law. If the facts are with you, argue the facts... |
#29
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^Not legal to wear full face helmet and CCW, even with valid CA LTC permit. So, YMMV on this issue.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#30
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Regarding a motorcyclist wearing a helmet and forfeiting his CCW. There is a difference between the intent to protect one's face and head (which is required by law when riding) and intent to disguise one's identity. The law enforcement officer that believes that non-sense is just flat out wrong.
Not even close. |
#31
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You make a good argument concerning reasonable enforcement, consistent with PC 4. But also keep in mind that, as we discussed above, because of the way PC 25300 is worded, there is no relevance to the intent of the wearer.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
#32
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#33
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I'm revisiting this old thread due to a new pandemic. The state suggests everyone to wear masks. Some counties require wearing masks when going outside. How does the old law of prohibiting wearing while ccw fit in today's pandemic?
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#34
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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