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  #1  
Old 10-31-2018, 7:38 AM
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Default Illegal to carry while wearing a mask

With today being Halloween, I just wanted to remind everyone that it is illegal to wear a mask while armed in California.
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Old 10-31-2018, 7:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes View Post
With today being Halloween, I just wanted to remind everyone that it is illegal to wear a mask while armed in California.
Really? Cite/source?

How big of a mask? A clown's nose?

What about facepaint?
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Really? Cite/source?

How big of a mask? A clown's nose?

What about facepaint?
While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 25300(a)]
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:08 AM
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Really? Cite/source?

How big of a mask? A clown's nose?

What about facepaint?
I am out and about right now, but it is actually a penal code section. I will look up the section when I get a chance.
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes View Post


With today being Halloween, I just wanted to remind everyone that it is illegal to wear a mask while armed in California.

Common sense in a world gone mad...
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:50 AM
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While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 25300(a)]

I should have looked before looking up the section. Yes 25300(a) PC...
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:50 AM
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Common sense in a world gone mad...
I don't agree with the law (um Halloween!). Just pointing it out for people.
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Old 10-31-2018, 9:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes View Post
I don't agree with the law (um Halloween!). Just pointing it out for people.


So your in agreement that today is the best day to commit robberies and murders.
There is a reason why you cannot CCW while wearing a mask. So if your dressed alike and with the same mask. One in your group commits armed robbery and you get grabbed. Your innocent but guilty by wearing the same mask. Similar type of clothing. Do you really want to take that chance.?


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Old 10-31-2018, 9:59 AM
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So your in agreement that today is the best day to commit robberies and murders.
There is a reason why you cannot CCW while wearing a mask. So if your dressed alike and with the same mask. One in your group commits armed robbery and you get grabbed. Your innocent but guilty by wearing the same mask. Similar type of clothing. Do you really want to take that chance.?


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The reason is called the KKK. That is the history of this law. Yes, today is the best day for people to commit robberies and murders...the exact reason I choose to be armed (and not wear a mask)...
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:38 AM
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Simple. Do not wear a mask tonight.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:05 AM
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Simple. Do not wear a mask tonight.
agreed. That is what I am doing. This is one of those restrictions that most people forget though...That is the only reason I reminded everyone...
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Old 10-31-2018, 2:16 PM
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I'm so unattractive I don't bother with a mask today
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Old 10-31-2018, 2:28 PM
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This is a bad law IMO but I guess it's less of a problem in a warmer climate.
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Old 10-31-2018, 5:07 PM
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This is a bad law IMO but I guess it's less of a problem in a warmer climate.
Yup, what a shocker that the powers that be in Sacramento do not think of the people who live in the colder areas of the state like the mountains and NorCal!
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Old 10-31-2018, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by back4more70 View Post
I'm so unattractive I don't bother with a mask today
There's got to be an "I only take my mask off for October 31st" joke floating around in that someplace.
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Old 10-31-2018, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes View Post


I don't agree with the law (um Halloween!).



Just pointing it out for people.

Adults, the only ones authorized to CCW, wearing a custume forfeit their right to conceal for two reasons.


  • They have demonstrate a lack of maturity inherent in this responsibility.
  • Wearing a disguise is alone prohibited while carrying for safety/legal reasons
http://criminal-justice.iresearchnet...rance-changes/





Why?

Criminals have long chosen disguises to delay and prevent apprehension.
Psychologist have documented that people act very different while in disguise, and in large groups, feeling that their behavior is without consequence.
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Old 10-31-2018, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll View Post
Adults, the only ones authorized to CCW, wearing a custume [sic] forfeit their right to conceal for two reasons.
[*]They have demonstrate a lack of maturity inherent in this responsibility
Wearing a costume while trick-or-treating with your kids demonstrates a lack of maturity?
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Old 10-31-2018, 8:53 PM
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if you live in a crazy place where progressive socialist LE control the area too bad, most rural LE in CA would be able to discern between the "letter" and "spirit" of the law mentioned and would not harass a legal CCW holder on Halloween.
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Old 10-31-2018, 9:26 PM
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illegal in CA, unless your Auntie Fah
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:10 PM
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Penal Code 25300
(a) A person commits criminal possession of a firearm when the person carries a firearm in a public place or on any public street while masked so as to hide the person’s identity.
(b) Criminal possession of a firearm is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) A peace officer in performance of the officer’s duties.
(2) A full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state.
(3) Any person summoned by any of the officers enumerated in paragraph (1) or (2) to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace while that person is actually engaged in assisting that officer.
(4) The possession of an unloaded firearm or a firearm loaded with blank ammunition by an authorized participant in, or while rehearsing for, a motion picture, television, video production, entertainment event, entertainment activity, or lawfully organized and conducted activity when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that production, event, or activity.
(5) The possession of a firearm by a licensed hunter while actually engaged in lawful hunting, or while going directly to or returning directly from the hunting expedition.
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Old 11-01-2018, 5:38 AM
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That law applies only if you are wearing a mask for the purpose of hiding your identity. If you're wearing a mask in celebration you are good to go.
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Old 11-01-2018, 9:00 AM
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That law applies only if you are wearing a mask for the purpose of hiding your identity. If you're wearing a mask in celebration you are good to go.
That was my first impression upon reading the statute. In all my years of service, I never had any occasion to use it.

But when you parse out the words of the statute, that not what it provides.

It the statute used words like "intent to conceal" or "for the purpose of concealing", I would agree with your conclusion. Such language indicates a purpose for the concealment and the violation is contingent on that purpose being present.

But the statute used the words "so as to hide the person’s identity." That language communicates an effect of wearing the mask.

"Purpose" and "Effect" are quite different things. I agree with prior posters that no reasonable LEO would take enforcement action based on a Halloween fact setting, but the law does permit an unreasonable LEO to do so.
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Old 11-01-2018, 9:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
That was my first impression upon reading the statute. In all my years of service, I never had any occasion to use it.

But when you parse out the words of the statute, that not what it provides.

It the statute used words like "intent to conceal" or "for the purpose of concealing", I would agree with your conclusion. Such language indicates a purpose for the concealment and the violation is contingent on that purpose being present.

But the statute used the words "so as to hide the person’s identity." That language communicates an effect of wearing the mask.

"Purpose" and "Effect" are quite different things. I agree with prior posters that no reasonable LEO would take enforcement action based on a Halloween fact setting, but the law does permit an unreasonable LEO to do so.
IANAL but the plain reading of the statute seems to agree w/ what you just said. Bad law. I can understand the temptation to pass something like this in a climate where the KKK or their ilk are causing problems but lacking an intent to conceal and so on clause it's only marginally reasonable IMO because most of CA is pretty warm, and even then it raises serious freedom of expression and religion issues.
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Old 11-01-2018, 9:15 AM
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IANAL but the plain reading of the statute seems to agree w/ what you just said. Bad law. I can understand the temptation to pass something like this in a climate where the KKK or their ilk are causing problems but lacking an intent to conceal and so on clause it's only marginally reasonable IMO because most of CA is pretty warm, and even then it raises serious freedom of expression and religion issues.
You're right, and there is a lot of bad law out there. If the law were written to have an "intent" element, then the conduct of the masked person would determine if there is a crime. But when the law is written with an "effect" element, then it the response of some other person that determines if the masked person has committed a crime. It's kinda hard to square that with principle of responsibility for one's own conduct.

There are quite a few penal laws in California that have similar issues. You usually don't hear about them because the legal technicalities are hidden through the reasonable enforcement efforts of LEO's and prosecutors.

When I was an FTO, a lot of effort went into creating a good understanding of Penal Code section 4, and to create the view that the law is a tool to accomplish appropriate ends, and not something to be blindly enforced.
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Old 11-01-2018, 9:29 AM
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You're right, and there is a lot of bad law out there. If the law were written to have an "intent" element, then the conduct of the masked person would determine if there is a crime. But when the law is written with an "effect" element, then it the response of some other person that determines if the masked person has committed a crime. It's kinda hard to square that with principle of responsibility for one's own conduct.

There are quite a few penal laws in California that have similar issues. You usually don't hear about them because the legal technicalities are hidden through the reasonable enforcement efforts of LEO's and prosecutors.

When I was an FTO, a lot of effort went into creating a good understanding of Penal Code section 4, and to create the view that the law is a tool to accomplish appropriate ends, and not something to be blindly enforced.
PC 4 is a great section! I had some FTO's that honestly probably did not even know what PC 4 was. Also, some people's definition of "spirit of the law" differ from mine.

Bottom line is that I will not rely on an officer enforcing the "spirit of the law." All it takes is one to enforce the letter of the law and create a headache for me.
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Old 11-01-2018, 9:46 AM
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With today being Halloween, I just wanted to remind everyone that it is illegal to wear a mask while armed in California.

............unless you are a member of Antifa?
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:47 AM
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If you desire a day in court to test your interpretation of these laws, knock yourself out.


Assuming that the law allows for or exempts good intent is humorous at best...
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Old 11-01-2018, 8:27 PM
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That was my first impression upon reading the statute. In all my years of service, I never had any occasion to use it.

But when you parse out the words of the statute, that not what it provides.

It the statute used words like "intent to conceal" or "for the purpose of concealing", I would agree with your conclusion. Such language indicates a purpose for the concealment and the violation is contingent on that purpose being present.

But the statute used the words "so as to hide the person’s identity." That language communicates an effect of wearing the mask.

"Purpose" and "Effect" are quite different things. I agree with prior posters that no reasonable LEO would take enforcement action based on a Halloween fact setting, but the law does permit an unreasonable LEO to do so.
You make a very good point. But I would counter that a motorcyclist wearing a full-face helmet does not forfeit his right to carry concealed.

Hell, I'd argue that the even intent to conceal -by itself- is insufficient absent a malicious motive. Should a famous person be forced to go grocery shopping unarmed if they wear a hat and oversized sunglasses?

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Old 11-02-2018, 12:58 AM
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You make a very good point. But I would counter that a motorcyclist wearing a full-face helmet does not forfeit his right to carry concealed.
I met a CHP sergeant that said it does.
^Not legal to wear full face helmet and CCW, even with valid CA LTC permit.

So, YMMV on this issue.
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Old 11-02-2018, 8:20 AM
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Regarding a motorcyclist wearing a helmet and forfeiting his CCW. There is a difference between the intent to protect one's face and head (which is required by law when riding) and intent to disguise one's identity. The law enforcement officer that believes that non-sense is just flat out wrong.

Not even close.
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Old 11-02-2018, 9:12 AM
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Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
Regarding a motorcyclist wearing a helmet and forfeiting his CCW. There is a difference between the intent to protect one's face and head (which is required by law when riding) and intent to disguise one's identity. The law enforcement officer that believes that non-sense is just flat out wrong.

Not even close.
Robert,

You make a good argument concerning reasonable enforcement, consistent with PC 4.

But also keep in mind that, as we discussed above, because of the way PC 25300 is worded, there is no relevance to the intent of the wearer.
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Old 11-03-2018, 1:44 PM
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Regarding a motorcyclist wearing a helmet and forfeiting his CCW. There is a difference between the intent to protect one's face and head (which is required by law when riding) and intent to disguise one's identity. The law enforcement officer that believes that non-sense is just flat out wrong.

Not even close.
I was thinking about the motorcycle thing too. I do not see where there is an exemption in the law for it. That said, I do not see that one sticking either. Taking it a step further, a lot of guys I know that ride wear masks to protect their faces form the wind, bugs... what about that?
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Old 04-30-2020, 1:20 PM
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I'm revisiting this old thread due to a new pandemic. The state suggests everyone to wear masks. Some counties require wearing masks when going outside. How does the old law of prohibiting wearing while ccw fit in today's pandemic?
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Old 04-30-2020, 1:51 PM
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I'm revisiting this old thread due to a new pandemic. The state suggests everyone to wear masks. Some counties require wearing masks when going outside. How does the old law of prohibiting wearing while ccw fit in today's pandemic?
You missed the new thread, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1600914
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