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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 10-28-2018, 8:03 AM
JuleSolo JuleSolo is offline
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Default Denied CCW due to "Moral Character" 26150

I applied for a CCW in Orange County in March, had my interview in April and all seemed to go well. Eighteen years ago I was going through a divorce and my wife had me arrested for grabbing her arm (did not hurt her in any way).

I had to attend anger management classes for a year and the judge dismissed the case.

Because of that issue, the sheriff asked for the police report and I was then told I had to go for a psychiatric evaluation. That seemed to go OK, but they denied my CCW due to "Moral Character 26150".

Can anyone tell me:

1) Is this usual, and
2) Is there anyway to appeal

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2018, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuleSolo View Post
I applied for a CCW in Orange County in March, had my interview in April and all seemed to go well. Eighteen years ago I was going through a divorce and my wife had me arrested for grabbing her arm (did not hurt her in any way).

I had to attend anger management classes for a year and the judge dismissed the case.

Because of that issue, the sheriff asked for the police report and I was then told I had to go for a psychiatric evaluation. That seemed to go OK, but they denied my CCW due to "Moral Character 26150".

Can anyone tell me:

1) Is this usual, and
2) Is there anyway to appeal

Thanks.
Go get ANY California Professional License, Realtor, Insurance Agent, Securities Broker/Agent, lawyer, Dr. or other. The state only issues licenses to people of "Good Moral Character". It's one of the reasons I keep my professional licenses.

Last edited by DolphinFan; 10-28-2018 at 9:41 PM..
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Go get ANY California Professional License, Realtor, Insurance Agent, or other. The state only issues licenses to people of "Good Moral Character". It's one of the reasons I keep my professional licenses.
Would a California guard card fall under this professional license category?
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Old 10-28-2018, 4:20 PM
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I'm certainly not saying you're a bad guy or judging this nearly two decade old incident, but in California any sort of domestic violence incident is taken awfully seriously and this would explain the denial. Even if you weren't convicted, the fact that you were arrested for something related to DV looks bad.

Last edited by bk23103; 10-28-2018 at 4:25 PM..
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2018, 4:25 PM
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Seems like there should be a period of time when that no longer haunts you. Most people's moral character grows/matures within 18 years.
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Old 10-28-2018, 5:14 PM
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Did you disclose it in your application? If not, well ......
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2018, 5:24 PM
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Good grief 18 years and still an issue!! I think if you were a serial arm grabber it would have showed up by now. That permit denial is just wrong.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2018, 6:09 PM
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Unfortunately, there are no objective standards in the CCW law defining 'good moral character', so that determination is entirely at the discretion of the issuing agencies.

Personally, I would not be annoyed if the arrest had been within, say, the last 2 years. Holding an 18-year-old event as applicable today, without a recent pattern of similar behavior, strikes me as an error in judgement.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2018, 6:40 PM
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They will deny for the littlest of reasons. I think there are also fed bans for DV - but probably only conviction.
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Old 10-28-2018, 8:01 PM
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Uh...."Grabbing her arm" may be a diluted version.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2018, 8:23 PM
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Sorry, but actions have consequences. When a Sheriff is looking to give as few CCW's out as possable, its pretty easy to see why they deny someone with past indiscretions that displayed violence or poor judgement.
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Old 10-28-2018, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Go get ANY California Professional License, Realtor, Insurance Agent, or other. The state only issues licenses to people of "Good Moral Character". It's one of the reasons I keep my professional licenses.
Applies to Insurance agent, not to Real Estate license. Don't ask me how I know.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2018, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Applies to Insurance agent, not to Real Estate license. Don't ask me how I know.
I didn't know that. Go get an insurance license.

I will correct my post. Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2018, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Unfortunately, there are no objective standards in the CCW law defining 'good moral character', so that determination is entirely at the discretion of the issuing agencies.

Personally, I would not be annoyed if the arrest had been within, say, the last 2 years. Holding an 18-year-old event as applicable today, without a recent pattern of similar behavior, strikes me as an error in judgement.
What if it wasn't disclosed? (Not sure from OP if it was or found during BGC).. and 2 he said he was denied after a subsequent psych eval. So likely the results of that were what did it, otherwise they would have just denied him before that.

Now what to do about appealing I have no idea.

As far as the psych eval - depending how you answered those questions might be why they gave you their response. I've heard that the Alameda County psych eval includes questions around voting, if you've voted, if you've seen a prostitute, if you watch porn, and other questions normal people would think are irrelevant.. depending how you've answered those may be questionable in OC assuming you had similar questions.
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I've heard that the Alameda County psych eval includes questions around voting, if you've voted, if you've seen a prostitute, if you watch porn, and other questions normal people would think are irrelevant..
Source?

Are you hooked up to a lie detector during your psych eval?
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  #16  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:20 PM
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Source?

Are you hooked up to a lie detector during your psych eval?
A customer of mine that has a CCW. I asked him what types of questions were on it when he presented it as his PoR document.
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  #17  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
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What if it wasn't disclosed?
I believe we've heard that issuing agencies Can Be Miffed About Omissions.
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:45 PM
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I've got some stuff that was expunged that I still disclose on job applications with a note on when it was expunged.

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  #19  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:30 AM
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They will look a lot longer back than 18 years. Any case that shows up on the FBI or CA DOJ LiveScan - even cases that were dismissed - they will ask you about. An expungement will not get case or FBI numbers off of your record. That's why it's called a permanent record.

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Old 10-31-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Go get ANY California Professional License, Realtor, Insurance Agent, Securities Broker/Agent, lawyer, Dr. or other. The state only issues licenses to people of "Good Moral Character". It's one of the reasons I keep my professional licenses.
Where on the application do you disclose you have a CA pro license?
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  #21  
Old 10-31-2018, 3:08 PM
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Where on the application do you disclose you have a CA pro license?
You can during your good cause statement as a confirmation of your good moral character.
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Old 10-31-2018, 6:11 PM
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You can during your good cause statement as a confirmation of your good moral character.
Ha, you could have been a convicted murderer and a lawyer the last 25 years. They never ran any of our fingerprints! Every lawyer in CA has to do a LiveScan now because the Bar never ran our prints. 13 page moral character application for admission to the California Bar (which will admit illegal aliens), but they are just now doing LiveScans!
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Old 10-31-2018, 7:05 PM
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Ha, you could have been a convicted murderer and a lawyer the last 25 years. They never ran any of our fingerprints! Every lawyer in CA has to do a LiveScan now because the Bar never ran our prints. 13 page moral character application for admission to the California Bar (which will admit illegal aliens), but they are just now doing LiveScans!
I don't get this. You're obviously breaking the law, but that doesn't matter because it feels good to let them be lawyers? Or do they just not check citizenship? I know I have some professional certs that don't bother asking citizenship status because it's irrelevant.
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