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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 84 8.45%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 669 67.30%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 22 2.21%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.53%
They will go out of business this year! 23 2.31%
Don't want anything to do with them! 151 15.19%
Voters: 994. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12361  
Old 10-23-2020, 9:46 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Originally Posted by nszzya View Post
A question about trigger modifications for the HCM test. The rules state, for Glock, that "Slightly modified triggers (no competition trigger jobs)" are allowed. What constitutes a slightly modified trigger?
Essentially stock...

Mods like an S&W performance center sear on an M&P or a Glock 34/35 disconnector on a 17.
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  #12362  
Old 10-24-2020, 4:24 AM
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Vinnie Boombatz Vinnie Boombatz is offline
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I'm out here right now for a 4DDH. Came out this time with three friends. I was originally supposed to come out solo for the shotgun 4-day tactical shotgun course on Monday, then meet up with my friends Thursday for the 4DDH. Had to cancel my 4-day Tactical Shotgun class because I just have too much going on with grad school and working (going back to school in your 40's blows, btw!).

My first trip to FS was this past March and it was an absolutely amazing experience. I loved every minute of it even though my 4DDH turned into a 2.5 day course after the Governor shut the state down while I was out there and they had to shut down FS. Place seemed to run like a Swiss train back then. Everything started when it was supposed to. The instructors were amazing and went above and beyond exceeding any preconceived expectations I had. Amazing attitudes, friendly, great coaching and teaching, etc. We even had an instructor (think his name was Angelo) who was finishing up his instructor training and he taught several modules/demos (not sure what you'd call them) and he was fantastic. I was really impressed.

My buddy and I arrived early on Day 1, and we flew through check in. Not sure what happened to every one else, but us and maybe 4 other people in our class along with the instructors waited 30 minutes for the rest of the class to arrive (full class, 42 students), essentially putting us 30 minutes behind for the first half of the day. As a result, some segments and demos were skipped/omitted and everything just felt rushed. We were definitely way behind all the other classes.

The lead instructor/range master this visit so far is a bit disappointing. He just seems a bit annoyed to be there. Apparently he's been at FS for quite a while, but is coming across as a bit condescending and arrogant. Kind of has a bad attitude. Who knows, maybe he was stressed because we got off to such a late start, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hopefully things will improve today. One of the instructors is fantastic though, and has the same approach, teaching style and incredible attitude the other 4 that tough my 4DDH class in March had. I kind of feel like a jerk because I had told my friends how great the instructors were last time I was here, and just assumed they'd be just as good this time around.

Things just seem a little bit off this visit. Definitely not as organized. Maybe I just got lucky in March and got a great set of instructors. Maybe FS is still trying to work out the kinks after being closed for so ling and still have to iron out the logistics with checking in on Day 1 with new Covid regulations, etc.

My buddy and I still had a ton of fun on Day 1. My other two friends seemed a bit overwhelmed. Was interesting because they are all former military (but it's been a LONG time since they were active duty, and two of them only recently started shooting again, and all are older than me). They were all exhausted after Day 1.
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  #12363  
Old 10-24-2020, 1:32 PM
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^^ Wow, very strange that that many people showed up so late. I wonder why? Also, sucks to hear about a bad instructor. Keep us posted.
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  #12364  
Old 10-24-2020, 6:25 PM
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OK, someone wanted a synopsis of Instructor Development. Due to non-disclosure I can't be specific about what we did, but here are some pointers for anyone else who will be taking the class:
Go and take, at a minimum, the 4 day handgun beforehand. Know how things work at FS and what their technique is. Work on your technique before you get there as you will be shooting the handgun skills test several times. You don't have to get straight DGs, but you will be expected to show continuous improvement.
Be willing to learn and accept instruction. They want you to do things exactly by the book, no excuses. You will be teaching the FS method while there and no other. The instructors will try to push your buttons, so maintain thy cool and be professional at all times.
You have to be able to shoot and teach. Everyone has to memorize a random lecture block and present it to the class. Theatrical or public speaking experience will go a long way here. You'll also have to demonstrate proper coaching/troubleshooting on the line and be able to run a range, as well as set up a range in the morning and break it down in the evening.
If you're not up to par on some of this the instructors will work with you. If you aren't willing to push yourself, though, don't bother signing up. You can be dropped at any time, for any reason. September 2020 ID class started with 19 people and they only graduated 7 of us. The only ones who made it through were the ones who really wanted it. That being said, some people had basically no shooting or teaching experience, they were hired on attitude and aptitude. Oh, and make sure you have all your required paperwork and documentation. I forgot a couple of things and it made for a bureaucratic headache.

Running the handgun class with a revolver: It was really fun. My trigger control and ammo management improved enormously and I got plenty of cred with the older range staff for doing it old school.
Upsides: You can actually do two dry presses when simulating a controlled pair! You don't have to do malfunctions on the test and you get 7 seconds for all reloads (I only needed 3-4 sec). The instructors have to try to remember the revolver specific parts of their lectures (evil laughter). Speed loaders are cheaper then mags.
Downsides: Do not have a serrated trigger face or you'll get a blister on your trigger finger after day 1. .38spl is a bit pricier then 9mm and the Winchester white box the Bunker was selling was poor quality. Only 6 shots. Coming off of semi-autos that long, double action pull and different grip is frustrating to learn. You must shoot double action the entire time, no cheating and cocking the hammer back.
I highly recommend doing it, for the experience if nothing else. Running a double action revolver seems to be a dying art form, which is really a shame since plenty of people still use them for home defence. Mine is a police surplus Ruger Security Six with the factory grips and a leather holster I found on Ebay. Don't know how old it is but it looks great and runs like a top. Shot the test clean, but got two late penalties for the 7yd timed head shots.
Tip: For the tactical reloads you have to do two out, two in. It doesn't matter where you stage your spare ammo, so I stuffed two rounds into the cuff of my shooting glove. An emergency reload needs to be done with a speed loader.
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Last edited by Kenponographer; 10-24-2020 at 6:34 PM..
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  #12365  
Old 10-24-2020, 7:37 PM
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Default Precision Rifle class: Weapons check?

To those who have taken Precision Rifle: Just confirming that we'll have a separate weapons check line?

My rifle comes stock with 3 lb trigger (Tikka TAC A1) and the manual shows how to adjust the trigger weight. At the lowest I was able to get a 1 lb 3 oz trigger weight, but I backed it off to 2 lb 2 oz.

For sure now it won't pass the regular weapons check line.

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  #12366  
Old 10-24-2020, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
To those who have taken Precision Rifle: Just confirming that we'll have a separate weapons check line?

My rifle comes stock with 3 lb trigger (Tikka TAC A1) and the manual shows how to adjust the trigger weight. At the lowest I was able to get a 1 lb 3 oz trigger weight, but I backed it off to 2 lb 2 oz.

For sure now it won't pass the regular weapons check line.

.
Unless things have changed, there was no weapons check of precision rifles. There was also no min trigger pull weight. I shot another student's rifle where the trigger pull weight was measured in ounces.
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  #12367  
Old 10-24-2020, 8:13 PM
damon1272 damon1272 is offline
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Vinnie,
FS has had a bunch of instructor turn over due to Covid. I have had a not so good instructor there but they are definitely far a few between. Still are a lot of the old standard there too.cant wait to go back. Let us know how you like shotgun. I Havenít taken that course yet.
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  #12368  
Old 10-24-2020, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
Unless things have changed, there was no weapons check of precision rifles. There was also no min trigger pull weight. I shot another student's rifle where the trigger pull weight was measured in ounces.
What happens after you check in at the trailer, do you just head to your range?

Thinking of accompanying my wife through weapons check. We had Cajun Guns modify her CZ Shadow 2 trigger to just over 4 lb, just because the instructors had said the Shadow 2 is an automatic fail.

.
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  #12369  
Old 10-24-2020, 8:43 PM
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Vinnie Boombatz Vinnie Boombatz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Vinnie,
FS has had a bunch of instructor turn over due to Covid. I have had a not so good instructor there but they are definitely far a few between. Still are a lot of the old standard there too.cant wait to go back. Let us know how you like shotgun. I Havenít taken that course yet.
So today was MUCH better. Instructor was way more relaxed and did a great job. The other instructor that wee all really liked on Ddy 1 was even bette Ron day 2.

Everyone seemed to have a great time today!
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  #12370  
Old 10-24-2020, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
What happens after you check in at the trailer, do you just head to your range?

Thinking of accompanying my wife through weapons check. We had Cajun Guns modify her CZ Shadow 2 trigger to just over 4 lb, just because the instructors had said the Shadow 2 is an automatic fail.

.
After you check in, you'll go to the classroom as usual for the intro and paperwork.

I don't see why you couldn't accompany your wife to inspection.
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  #12371  
Old 10-25-2020, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
What happens after you check in at the trailer, do you just head to your range?
Day 1
General classes - start at outside trailer, proceed to weapons and ammo inspection, yellow necklace, put guns back into car, go to classroom and fill out paperwork, collect yellow necklace, go to assigned range.

Private class - go to admin trailer, check in, paperwork, head to assigned range.

Day 2 - direct to assigned range
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