Finding year and place of manufacture of used handgun

[NV_Born_46]

Hi all,
I recently purchased a used PPK/S from my local and reputable FFL.

How can I find out where and when it was manufactured?

Thank you!
:-)
Vanessa

[Garv]

Start by letting us know the serial number.

Good Luck.

[Rogerbutthead]

This thread on another forum might help.

https://www.waltherforums.com/thread...ir-guns.10152/

[SVT-40]

The where will be stamped on the slide. The when may be found stamped on the frame, as in the proof marks.

[NV_Born_46]

Thanks, all.
S/N is 023360

I will also post on the other thread that was recommended.

:-)
Vanessa

[NV_Born_46]

Hi all,
I recently purchased a used PPK/S from my local and reputable FFL.

How can I find out and when it was manufactured where?

I do know that the frame and slide are from two different places.

S/N is 023360

BTW--I should mention I am rather new to this wonderful world. ;-)

Thank you!
:-)
Vanessa

[sealocan]

I'm not a Walter expert and someone here who is might be along to give you the exact answer or direct you to a Walther firearms forum that might have the "serial number date code guide chart" using your serial number. But it gets a little more complex than some other firearms makers because the Walters were imported by Interarms and later Smith & Wesson.

I can give you a link that might give you the year of manufacture, going by the possible stamped into the metal two-letter date code, on the right side of the frame, on forward part of the trigger guard, above the trigger. You're looking for two letters in that location and then you could look that up online.

There's another possible two digit year of manufacture indicator near the chamber / barrel area. And those two digits may possibly be the year of manufacture. These two methods might give you your answer quicker.
Here's the link with some photographs to help you see exactly where I'm talking about...

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/wa...cation.384058/

[Mark49]

Welcome to our wonderful world of firearms.

I have many Walters, so many decades ago joined the Walther forum.

Wonder bunch of knowledgeable folks. Keep us posted.

WaltherForums.com

Mark

[highpower]

The serial number by itself is not going to be any help. However, if you were to give us a picture of both sides of the gun I am sure there is someone on here that could help you.

Any PPK/s is going to be post 1968.

[MajorSideburns]

Who made it? The PPK design was licensed to a couple of different companies over the past 90 years. Does it say Smith & Wesson, Walther, Manurhin on the slide? That would help narrow down the year range greatly. A picture is worth a thousand words, I'm sure our resident experts could figure it out immediately with a picture of the slide markings. Congratulations on the purchase, they are a fine little handgun.

[IVC]

Normally, when you want to find something about a gun you start with the serial number. Manufacturers keep records about batches they produce and information is often available online. If not, there are collectors who will compile this information and they tend to be on the model-specific forums, as suggested above.

[naz]

Try contacting Walther and provide the S/N. Maybe they will share all that info you are looking for

[Hockeytodd03]

There will be proof marks on the frame. They may be under the grip panels. All European makers have proof marks for dating.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

Hi all,
I recently purchased a used PPK/S from my local and reputable FFL.

How can I find out where and when it was manufactured?

Thank you!
:-)
Vanessa

Other companies have made PPK/s as well as Walther so you need to know the manufacturer first.
Walther has had many different importers over the history of that PPK/s being manufactured.
Knowing which importer brought it into the country (or no importer if it's a war trophy) will get you into the year range of the specific importer.
Then the serial number will hone you into a specific year.

[subscriber]

The date of manufacture of a used gun matters, if it is a collectors' item. Else, the state of machining, fit and function, as well as cosmetic condition that you can see and evaluate are what matter. You can check those out to varying degrees before purchase.

Yes, there are guns such as pre-'64 Winchester model 70 rifles, that are preferred to later models. Because the ones made after that lacked the controlled round feed extractor. (although I believe that has been brought back). Easily identifiable before purchase.

Colt 1911 pistols fall into a number of categories, over the years, that make them desirable, or valuable. I am not a collector, so if I could find a "new in the box" govt model made in the 1970s, that would be my preference. Based on quality, finish, and lack of a firing pin lock. A GI model from before 1945 could also be interesting, but I want one that is not too precious to shoot.

So, the question is, why do you want to know when your gun was made? You already bought it, so it can't be part of the purchase decision. If you want to confirm value after the buy, that would seem an odd time. Curiosity would be a good enough reason.

[SDDAVE56]

Try here,,,


https://www.waltherforums.com/

[NV_Born_46]

Thank you, all!

I have learned a lot in just these past couple of days.
I had no idea how interestingly complex my search via S/N could be when it comes to "Walther."

It now is clear to me that I should have waited another week before my post, as my 10-day wait period (California) is not over until Saturday.

The first thing I will do is check both sides of the PPK/S for any and all identifiable markings, take a few photos, and get back to you.

All I know is the item appears to be in very good to excellent condition, I have dealing with the same reputable dealer for a while, and that the moment I grasped the grip, it felt as though the manufacturer had designed it to fit my hand.

Be back soon!
:-)

[NV_Born_46]

Thank you, all!

I have learned a lot in just these past couple of days.

I had no idea how interestingly complex my search via S/N could be when it comes to "Walther."

It now is clear to me that I should have waited another week before my post, as my 10-day wait period (California) is not over until Saturday.

The first thing I will do is check both sides of the PPK/S for any and all identifiable markings, take a few photos, and get back to you.

All I know is the item appears to be in very good to excellent condition, I have dealing with the same reputable dealer for a while, and that the moment I grasped the grip, it felt as though the manufacturer had designed it to fit my hand.

Be back soon!
:-)

[Rogerbutthead]

I note that the design of the Walther PP/PPK series seems to produce more of a "bite" on the webbing of my hand - between thumb and index finger - than other 380 ACPs I have fired.

Be prepared for that.

*I am not talking about the rearward path of the slide taking some flesh - I mean the side edges of the frame being uncomfortable when the gun recoils - as discussed in this particular thread there - https://www.waltherforums.com/thread...our-ppk.13315/

[subscriber]

Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead

I note that the design of the Walther PP/PPK series seems to produce more of a "bite" on the webbing of my hand - between thumb and index finger - than other 380 ACPs I have fired.

Part of the reason for the "sharper" recoil is because the PPK is blowback operated. So, unlike small .380 pistols that are recoil operated (similar to a 1911 breech), the slide velocity of the PPK is high, like a gas operated rifle that is over-gassed. That can result in the bolt/carrier slamming back harder than necessary, and produce more "felt recoil" than the equivalent bolt action rifle.

EDIT: Thread on the Walther forum about blowback and stong recoil springs, compared to light springs on locked breech auto: https://www.waltherforums.com/thread...2/#post-257464

[SDDAVE56]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

Hi all,
I recently purchased a used PPK/S from my local and reputable FFL.

How can I find out where and when it was manufactured?

Thank you!
:-)
Vanessa

Does it have "Small Antlers' proof mark? Ulm Germany.

[SVT-40]

Here are some examples of German post WWII proof marks. As mentioned above the single antler mark is a "Ulm" proof mark.

The shield with the cross hatching is a "Munich" proof.

Other post WWII German proof houses were Berlin which had a standing bear proof, Kiel which looked like an explosion, Hannover which was a horse and Cologne which was a shield with three crowns inside the shield.

The numbers beside the proof indicate the year it was proofed, which can also be used as the date of manufacture.

The other Eagle over "N" mark is a standard proof mark indicating it passed a specified firing test.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

Thank you, all!

I have learned a lot in just these past couple of days.

I had no idea how interestingly complex my search via S/N could be when it comes to "Walther."

It now is clear to me that I should have waited another week before my post, as my 10-day wait period (California) is not over until Saturday.

The first thing I will do is check both sides of the PPK/S for any and all identifiable markings, take a few photos, and get back to you.

All I know is the item appears to be in very good to excellent condition, I have dealing with the same reputable dealer for a while, and that the moment I grasped the grip, it felt as though the manufacturer had designed it to fit my hand.

Be back soon!
:-)

Welcome to CalGuns Vanessa;

Posting prior to getting your little beauty can be considered [PRIMING THE INFO PUMP].

If you are finding research on Walthers complex. Dont start looking into Mauser Rifles. They were, are, and have been made on every continent except Australia and Antartica. For about 150 years.

As [highpower noted] ..... Any PPK/s is going to be post 1968. So should be clearly marked as to maker and country of origin. And may likely have a date code.

Enjoy it and Be Safe.

[hambam105]

PPks....Loaded fer Bear now.

[NV_Born_46]

Hi everyone!
I really appreciate your feedback on this iconic firearm with fascinating histories (plural).

So, today I picked up the PPK/S from my favourite local store and have gleaned some information.
However, just a few minutes ago I found an almost identical item at an auction house and can pretty much surmise what, when, and where are the origins of mine.

Here's some info from mine:

The left side of the frame is marked with the Walther logo, ?MADE IN USA?, and ?UNDER LICENSE OF / CARL WALTHER WAFFENFABRIK Ulm/Do / Modell PPK/S Cal. 9mm kurz/.380 ACP?. The grips are marked ?WALTHER?. The right side of the barrel is marked ?INTERARMS / ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA? and features the serial number ?023360?. The barrel has the proof mark ?VA?. The right side of the frame is marked with the serial number in two locations.

So, I think part of the piece was manufactured in Ulm, Germany, and part in Alexandria, VA (USA)

There are no graphic icons other than "Walther"

The year seems to be between 1983-1999; that's quite a spread.
If anyone can determine the actual year, it would be appreciated.

Thank you,
:-)
Vanessa
I have photos to attach, but I can't find the "Pictures & Albums" in my Control Panel. Hope this works.

[G-forceJunkie]

An American made PPK/s by Interarms. But Interarms didn't actually build it, they subcontracted them out to a place in Alabama called Ranger, later Mid-South Industries. When Umarex bought out Walther, they moved production to S&W.

[NV_Born_46]

Thank you, G-forceJunkie

The history of the PPK/S and Walther continues to amaze me.

[NV_Born_46]

Originally Posted by subscriber

The date of manufacture of a used gun matters, if it is a collectors' item. You can check those out to varying degrees before purchase.

So, the question is, why do you want to know when your gun was made?
Curiosity would be a good enough reason.

Yes; curiosity after the fact.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

The year seems to be between 1983-1999; that's quite a spread.
If anyone can determine the actual year, it would be appreciated.

Somewhere on the internet, there will be a list of serial number ranges and associated years for interarms PPK/s.

Maybe start here:
https://www.waltherforums.com/attach...018-pdf.77486/

[NV_Born_46]

Thank you, Randall

So, I did visit waltherforums and found a few people with the same question.

Bottom line seems to be there are scant or no records of the Interarms in Alexandria, VA version of the PPK/S.
Apparently, it was relatively short-lived and the manufacturing was actually done in Arkansas--something like that.

Also, all or nearly all resources that list S/N have letters either before or after the actual number.

So, in the end, I have a firearm possibly made between 1983 and 1999.

I will take the item to the range in two days, and hope that it fires and handles as well as it feels in my hand.

I have no regrets concerning the PPK/S, other than living in California where it is off-roster. Hmmm, I wonder how the real estate market is doing east of here... ;-)

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

Thank you, Randall

So, I did visit waltherforums and found a few people with the same question.

Bottom line seems to be there are scant or no records of the Interarms in Alexandria, VA version of the PPK/S.
Apparently, it was relatively short-lived and the manufacturing was actually done in Arkansas--something like that.

Also, all or nearly all resources that list S/N have letters either before or after the actual number.

So, in the end, I have a firearm possibly made between 1983 and 1999.

I will take the item to the range in two days, and hope that it fires and handles as well as it feels in my hand.

I have no regrets concerning the PPK/S, other than living in California where it is off-roster. Hmmm, I wonder how the real estate market is doing east of here... ;-)

Did you actually look at the PDF file that I linked you directly to by clicking on it or did you try and copy the shortened URL?

The "s" may be to designate the PPK from the PPK/s series and may not actually be stamped on the gun near the serial number because the "s" is part of the model.

[Pofoo]

Why not ask the dealer who sold you the gun?
Any "dealer" (other than a big box store) should be able to give you a answer.

[NV_Born_46]

Hi Randall,
Yes, and thank you again for the link.
I followed the link and downloaded the file to make sure I could give it a very thorough look. I did look at all of the S/Ns, regardless of the letters. Some were close to my S/N, so that is why I am left with the broad range of dates.

[NV_Born_46]

Thank you, Pofoo,

Yes, I did, but they were stumped, and suggested I try contacting Walther directly and the various forums.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by NV_Born_46

Hi Randall,
Yes, and thank you again for the link.
I followed the link and downloaded the file to make sure I could give it a very thorough look. I did look at all of the S/Ns, regardless of the letters. Some were close to my S/N, so that is why I am left with the broad range of dates.

Looking through the PDF, you can eliminate the A and the K serial prefixes as those are PPK but yours is a PPK/s.
Then you can eliminate the B and W serial prefixes because those are 32 auto while yours is 380.
Then you can eliminate the blued PPK/s 380's at the end because yours is stainless steel.

This leaves you with only 1 list of serial numbers to look within and that list is the stainless steel PPK/s models chambered in 380.
Those are S prefix.
Your serial number lands in late1984 or early1985.