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The way that I read PC 17000(b) is that a service member, stationed in California, becomes a resident if they are discharged in California. In reaching my conclusion, I'm influenced by the legislative practice of many states (I would say all, I don't know of any that differ from this) that treat their residents as remaining so through the period of their military service. Under that model, a military person from another state and serving in California would remain a resident of the other state until discharged in California. If I were to read the statute in the way I think you're suggesting, then a California resident who enters military service, and is then stationed in California, would become a "stateless" person until discharged. I can't accept that as the legislative intent of PC 17000(b)(2). In furtherance of my POV, I would argue that a California resident who enters military service has already "established" their California residency prior to entry and that makes PC 17000(b)(2) a nullity with regard to such a person assigned orders to California. But I'll yield that this is only opinion and unsupported by any case law that I can cite. And, again, this is why I recommended that the OP contact his JAG, rather than offer him an unsupported conclusion of how the law might affect him. I still believe this appropriate given the strict enforcement protocols of the DOJ, the close accountability of military members, and the rather draconian effect of PC sections 27585 and 27590. I suspect that we will continue to disagree on the point. That's cool. If everyone on this forum agreed on every issue, it would be a pretty boring place. I only ask that disagreement be respectful, and yours certainly has been and I very much appreciate that.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by RickD427; 02-18-2020 at 10:00 PM.. |
#43
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No offense to the many JAGs out there but they are general not well versed in state law.
I’m with Rick on this one. A couple of other ways to determine residency are tax law, and ...divorce/family law. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2017/17_1031.pdf covers the residency test for tax purposes. One could use this as a litmus test for the purposes of firearms as well. One can only be a resident of one state at a time. This is typically determined by tax authority and voting, but not always. If I entered the military from the state of Florida, I will always be considered a resident of that state until I change it. So as a general rule a persons home of record is usually their state of residency. So one only has to look at the the state listed on your LES as paying state tax too. In the OPs case, he’s is a considered a resident of California and subject to the laws as a resident, vice non-resident. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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Additional info on this page: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/personal.../military.html
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
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My apologies if it's already been stated, but are you aware there is a single firearm exemption to the assault weapon ban for active duty military? You might be able to aquire it in a free state, and bring it back legally with an assault weapon permit (or just added to your current assault weapon permit).
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
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It's important to note that the requirement is for the member's "Base Commander" rather than "Unit Commander" to sign the application. Base Commanders tend to be very senior officers and they have legal staffs to review the papers they sign. Take the example of Marines at Camp Pendleton. There are a great many Marine Corps units at Camp Pendleton, but the Base Commander is Brigadier General. He's the one who's gotta sign the app for members assigned to Camp Pendleton units. A second point to consider is that Senator Feinstein sits on the Senate Defense Sub Committee. She is a strong gun control advocate and a political ally of the California Attorney General. I would strongly believe that if the AG were to receive a "Military Assault Weapons Permit" application signed by the Camp Pendleton Commanding General that there would be some quick "back-channel" phone calls made with the result being an inquiry being made to Marine Corps Headquarters as to why the Marine Corps was unable to issue a weapon to the requestee in order to meet military requirements. Guess how that would turn out? I hope that I'm wrong here. Does anyone know anyone who has received such a permit?
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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Here’s an example of what the Marines tell their folks coming to California.
https://www.pendleton.marines.mil/Ne...-Registration/ Notice they make no mention of the the vehicle code and it’s effect on new resident registration. So, take JAG with a grain of salt. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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Ive never seen one or heard of one. Anecdotal, but I’ve also been around awhile. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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Sorry for delay, but family is in town....
In my opinion, CA PEN neither confers, confirms or denies the status of "residency" or "residence" on anyone. The provisions of the statute are fully contained within the four corners of the law, and are fenced within those corners. External evaluation is neither needed nor appropriate. The statute provides a definition for a "Personal Firearm Importer". The first words of the statute say, "As used in this part," which limits the use and meaning of the term to CA PEN Part 6. Control of Deadly Weapons. The definition of the term has no bearing outside of the Penal Code, Part 6. In establishing the meaning of the term, "Personal Firearm Importer", the statute tells us, "...a 'personal firearm importer' means an individual who meets all of the following criteria." The statute then lists a number of criteria, including paragraph (6) under subdivision (a): "The individual moved into this state [...] as a resident of this state." At the end of the criteria list, the statute provides us with subdivision (b), which seeks to explain the meaning of residency as it applies to the (a)(6) criterion, "(b) For the purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):" With that, the standards expressed in Subdivision (b)(1) or (2) have no bearing or use outside of clarification of subdivision (a) paragraph (6). they are "fenced" and can't travel to other areas of state activity. In subdivision (b)(1), prior to establishing the first clarification standard, the subdivision states, "Except as provided in paragraph (2)", so, anything following in (b)(1) specifically does not pertain to the circumstance to be displayed in (b)(2). Then, subdivision (b)(1) goes on, "...residency (for the sole purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a)) shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant Section 12505 or the (CA) Vehicle Code. Based on this, the Vehicle Code standards cannot apply to the next subdivision. Subdivision (b)(2) tells us, "In the case of a member of the Armed Services of the United States, residency (for the sole purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a)) shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state." There is no additional qualification regarding place of birth, place of enlistment, Home of Record, location of property. Nothing else. The paragraph simply presents the treatment for "residency" (for the sole purposes of subdivision (a)(6)) for active military personnel. Thus, the statute appears to say, when determining if an active duty service member is a "personal firearm importer" the issue of residency under one of the definition criteria shall only be based on location of discharge from service. And, that determination holds no validity for anything other than making the personal firearms importer determination. Best.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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