Book of Revelation

[SCVlongstroke]

Not to get into too much of religion, I’ve always had this stigmatized view of this book.With so much differences between the western and eastern culture I’ve always found American English texts being washed out by translation. Still this book had an eerie and different feel and almost its own identity. The persecution of Christianity and peace in Israel seemed far fetched for me. I have never correlated it to a specific time in history myself but now I am taking a step back and looking at a different viewpoint.

What are your guys viewpoint on this biblical book of doom? Can you see things playing out, does it reference to the world in general both old and new times or specific to the actual fall of humanity in end times?

[Redeyedrider]

You might get better play in this forum

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=355

[Dirtlaw]

You can be smart or stupid. Smart suggests that time is short ... proceed at your own peril. Smart also suggests that you listen to the almighty Word.

[goofcat]

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”
**Revelation‬ *1:1‬ *ESV‬‬

No a book of doom. It's the revealing of the full power of Jesus. Followers of Christ look forward to him coming back and setting everything right.

[ViPER395]

Who knew CG had a Faith forum.

I've been in this OT cesspool for far too long.

[gdr_11]

I always tell folks to read all of the prophetic books in the Bible and look for the linkages between them without getting too caught up in the specific images noted. Then, consider what we have been seeing in the world over the past 30 years and see how much of it crosswalks to the Word of God. If you see the indicators, delve into the Bible with an open heart and mind; if you see only coincidence and foolishness, then move along.

The books to consider besides Revelation are Daniel, Ezekiel, Joel and the end times statements by Jesus in the Book of Matthew.

[Barang]

the book is Good News. it shows His servants what must take place leading up to the Second Coming ---> then the final battle ---> then the final judgement ---> then the New Heaven and New Earth.

[realbadlarry]

Kind of Scary that there is not really a Power from the West mentioned in the final battles....what happens to the US???

Discuss....

[r8dr rider]

Revelation 13
16Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

We are seeing this now with masks and temp checks

[Alan Block]

Originally Posted by realbadlarry

Kind of Scary that there is not really a Power from the West mentioned in the final battles....what happens to the US???

Discuss....

It would be over 1300 years until the US became a country.

[Barang]

Originally Posted by realbadlarry

Kind of Scary that there is not really a Power from the West mentioned in the final battles....what happens to the US???

Discuss....

politically correct is the downfall of the west. liberal fake news, hollyweired, universersities, public skool, dems, blm, rioters, looters, democrat mayors/governors and the likes are embolden and at the driver seat.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Alan Block

It would be over 1300 years until the US became a country.

A bit more than that.

Revelation was written about 96AD, though there are some (a minority) that argue it was written sometime prior to 70AD.

While some aspects of the Preterist view (pre 70AD authorship) are indeed compelling, I am solidly convinced of the 96AD (or thereabouts) authorship date.

That would put it 1660 years before the United States became a country.

As to reading the US into the book; that is not the purpose, nor point.

[RandyD]

After the short introduction, the Book of Revelation discusses seven churches. There are seven types of churches, and there are seven time periods that each of these churches represent. By all accounts we are in the last time period. The stage is being set in the world for the final events that are set for in the latter part of this book.

God works in time periods of seven. There are seven days in a week. There is to be a year rest every seven years, which no one observes. The Jubilee occurs after seven times seven years. If you read the old testament, it states how old the patriarchs were at when they were born. It takes some effort but you can add up all the years from the birth of Adam to the birth of Christ and it is 5000 years, and there has been another 2000 years since the birth of Christ, that makes 7000 years, a period of completion.

All of the above are indicators to God's people. If you are not in God's kingdom, you may want to reconsider and change that.

[PogoJack]

Originally Posted by r8dr rider

Revelation 13

16Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.



We are seeing this now with masks and temp checks

Was reading this in the morning. Earlier in the chapter it talks about the beast with a grave wound that was healed and took dominion over all. Communism?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[RandyD]

Originally Posted by realbadlarry

Kind of Scary that there is not really a Power from the West mentioned in the final battles....what happens to the US???

Discuss....

I have listened to a number of pastors over the past 30 years discuss this. No one has been able to identify the United States as a participant in the Battle of Armageddon. The best estimate is that we are no longer a super power. If the Democrats ever gain control of all three branches of government again, you can count on them dismantling our military, constitution but at the same time, they will secure their future to permanently run this country. All of this is being staged as you read this.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by ViPER395

Who knew CG had a Faith forum.

I've been in this OT cesspool for far too long.

Bye

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by goofcat

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”
**Revelation‬ *1:1‬ *ESV‬‬

Not a book of doom. It's the revealing of the full power of Jesus. Followers of Christ look forward to him coming back and setting everything right.

Originally Posted by Barang

the book is Good News. it shows His servants what must take place leading up to the Second Coming ---> then the final battle ---> then the final judgement ---> then the New Heaven and New Earth.

Amen!

Goofycat and Barang summarized Revelation perfectly!

The book of Revelation was written to believers and to be understood in the context of the Gospel and the body of teachings of the Old and New Testaments.

Scripture says those who read and hear the words of Revelation (Rev 1:3) are blessed, but some get hung up on Revelation to the exclusion of the rest of scripture; and worse yet attempt to read and understand Revelation outside the context of the rest of scripture; these approaches are not at all edifying or useful.

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. - Revelation 1:3

[gdr_11]

There is no mention of any power resembling the U.S. in any if the prophetic books. You have references to Europe, China, Russia and other entities that did not exist in those times, but no U.S.A. I believe America as we know it today will not be around that long. It will be absorbed by the socialist New World Order who will be handed the keys from within

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by gdr_11

There is no mention of any power resembling the U.S. in any if the prophetic books. You have references to Europe, China, Russia and other entities that did not exist in those times, but no U.S.A. I believe America as we know it today will not be around that long. It will be absorbed by the socialist New World Order who will be handed the keys from within

we are an anomaly - destined for greatness.

Entirely new books will be written about the journey.

[gdr_11]

Originally Posted by LBDamned

we are an anomaly - destined for greatness.

Entirely new books will be written about the journey.

Unfortunately, those books will be written the likes of Bloomberg, DiBlasio, Newsom and Pelosi. I would include AOC but I am not sure she knows how to write

[Danodog]

Figurative language and open interpretation is one of the aspects I do not like about the book of Revalation. The seven lamp stands are churches, and 7 is a significant number, and so on. I read it in short passages and then look to various external sites for their interpretation.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by gdr_11

Unfortunately, those books will be written the likes of Bloomberg, DiBlasio, Newsom and Pelosi. I would include AOC but I am not sure she knows how to write

We dont know that yet.

One thing is certain - pessimism breeds pessimism.

[The War Wagon]

The secret to the Book of Revelation is - Jesus WINS!

[Garand Hunter]

# 19, you are correct ! As an aside here, personally I foresee the tribulation period ( 3/12 yrs or 7 yrs ) occuring within what I call the Mediterrean Basin or just draw a huge circle around Europe and North Africa and the mid-near far east regions. The closest you will come to finding a description of America is in the Ezekiel ch 38 & 39 verses listing the " young lions " speaking to Gog. Yes the whole earth will going crazy hear & there. BUT, their MUST be " sheep nations/people groups address by Jesus at the judgement of the nations in Jerusalem after the IN YOUR FACE return of Jesus the Christ to Jerusalem described in Zechariah ch 12 & 14. Enuff for now.

[Kokopelli]

Revelation chapters 1 through 3 describe seven church ages, with the last one being descriptive of the final church before Christ returns. Immediately after the last church age, Chapter 4 begins with the apostle John being called to heaven:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”" Revelation 4:1

Here, The apostle is Representative of the church being called to heaven. The church is not mentioned again, except for a brief epilogue in Revelation 22:16, the end of the book.

Chapters 4 and 5 describe heaven and Christ. Chapter 6 is the opening of the scroll, the four "horesmen of the apocalypse" and much death, from which the church has been spared because it is no longer on earth. It is the begining of seven years of God's wrath poured upon the world, known as the 70th week of Daniel.

"For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Thessalonians 5:9

[Garand Hunter]

Right on Bro Kokopelli, another Rapture Bro.

Psalm 1

[Garand Hunter]

For SCVlonstroke, you might consider praying the prayer St Paul set forth in Col ch 1 vs 9 thru 12 a few times and then take another several looks at the book of Revelation. Jut saying.

Psalm 1

[CVShooter]

Revelation is NOT about doom and gloom. It contains doom and gloom but it is not about the negative. It is about HOPE. It was written to give persecuted Christians the hope that, one day, in the near future, their suffering would end and they would be rewarded. It is about how all the horrible things done to them, all the political will to squash them, all the suffering they experienced at the hands of Rome and other Jews, would end and they'd be proven right, loyal subjects of their God & his son, Jesus.

The imagery, all the visions, all the crazy characters (anti-Christ, for example) were veiled references to leaders known at that time. It's veiled for the same reason that Jesus often veiled his parables -- to conceal the meaning behind plausible deniability. There was no freedom of speech back then. Openly threatening the empire or fostering dissent would get you imprisoned or executed. Your written story would be dead upon print and you with it. Conceal the meaning behind your intent and those "in the know" would get it while those outside your faith would be suspicious but probably let it go.

Revelation borrows a lot from Daniel and both borrow heavily from Canaanite & Mesopotamian mythology. Consider, for example, the battle between Jesus & the Dragon from the Deep (Satan). Jesus is the son of YHWH, according to Christian theology. Likewise, Ba'al is the son of El, the god who gives us life, symbolized in the stalk of grain (food). He dies (whithers) and rises again (from seed) in an annual ritual every Canaanite would observe every year. Yam is the Canaanite god of the sea, a dragon, who fights Ba'al in the last days. "Yam" is still the Hebrew word for "sea."

Ba'al will be victorious, according to the myths. It is no coincidence that Jesus vs Satan have the same battle as the ancient Canaanites describe with Ba'al and Yam. The Ugaritic texts, which describe the Canaanite version of this story, dates to around 1200 BC -- about the same time as the Hebrew (Hapiru?) Exodus. This is a much older story than Daniel (6th Century BC) or Revelation (90 AD).

John's retelling of it in a Christian context was his way of using what Christians already knew of Daniel & reinterpreting it in a Christian philosophy/theology.

Seeing it as doom and gloom is like seeing the old 80's flick, First Blood, and thinking it's all about action & violence. Yes, it contains action and violence. But it's about Vietnam veterans and our country's fighting internally about the war, civil rights, etc. Focusing on the action is completely missing the message. Likewise, while reading Revelation, focusing on the doom & gloom is missing the point. The doom and gloom is NOW (or then). Hope is just on the horizon.

[Garand Hunter]

Nice try CV, BUT John did not use Christian philosophy/theology to reinterpret the Book of Daniel. Did you remember the vision he experienced occurs separate from reading Daniel, " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day " etc. And Jesus did not at any point in the vision/catching up to the Throne Room make reference to the book of Daniel.

Psalm 1

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by CVShooter

Revelation is NOT about doom and gloom. It contains doom and gloom but it is not about the negative. It is about HOPE. It was written to give persecuted Christians the hope that, one day, in the near future, their suffering would end and they would be rewarded. It is about how all the horrible things done to them, all the political will to squash them, all the suffering they experienced at the hands of Rome and other Jews, would end and they'd be proven right, loyal subjects of their God & his son, Jesus.

The imagery, all the visions, all the crazy characters (anti-Christ, for example) were veiled references to leaders known at that time. It's veiled for the same reason that Jesus often veiled his parables -- to conceal the meaning behind plausible deniability. There was no freedom of speech back then. Openly threatening the empire or fostering dissent would get you imprisoned or executed. Your written story would be dead upon print and you with it. Conceal the meaning behind your intent and those "in the know" would get it while those outside your faith would be suspicious but probably let it go.

Revelation borrows a lot from Daniel and both borrow heavily from Canaanite & Mesopotamian mythology. Consider, for example, the battle between Jesus & the Dragon from the Deep (Satan). Jesus is the son of YHWH, according to Christian theology. Likewise, Ba'al is the son of El, the god who gives us life, symbolized in the stalk of grain (food). He dies (whithers) and rises again (from seed) in an annual ritual every Canaanite would observe every year. Yam is the Canaanite god of the sea, a dragon, who fights Ba'al in the last days. "Yam" is still the Hebrew word for "sea."

Ba'al will be victorious, according to the myths. It is no coincidence that Jesus vs Satan have the same battle as the ancient Canaanites describe with Ba'al and Yam. The Ugaritic texts, which describe the Canaanite version of this story, dates to around 1200 BC -- about the same time as the Hebrew (Hapiru?) Exodus. This is a much older story than Daniel (6th Century BC) or Revelation (90 AD).

John's retelling of it in a Christian context was his way of using what Christians already knew of Daniel & reinterpreting it in a Christian philosophy/theology.

Seeing it as doom and gloom is like seeing the old 80's flick, First Blood, and thinking it's all about action & violence. Yes, it contains action and violence. But it's about Vietnam veterans and our country's fighting internally about the war, civil rights, etc. Focusing on the action is completely missing the message. Likewise, while reading Revelation, focusing on the doom & gloom is missing the point. The doom and gloom is NOW (or then). Hope is just on the horizon.

When in history was a third of all mankind killed, a third of the earth burned up and all life in the oceans killed? When was there such devastation that every island on earth wiped out and every coastland wiped out? When was there one ruler over all of earth that ordered all Christians to be beheaded? When was there destruction where meteors weighing a talent crushed everything, where mankind hid is caves and death fled? When did an army of 200 million march on Israel? When did Armageddon happen?

The hope in Revelation is that after the rapture of the church, God doesn’t destroy everyone left. People’s souls will be saved during the period. Those who do not receive the mark of the beast will suffer and be persecuted, many to death.

[CVShooter]

Originally Posted by Garand Hunter

Nice try CV, BUT John did not use Christian philosophy/theology to reinterpret the Book of Daniel. Did you remember the vision he experienced occurs separate from reading Daniel, " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day " etc. And Jesus did not at any point in the vision/catching up to the Throne Room make reference to the book of Daniel.

Psalm 1

So you think that John, a devout Jew, exiled leader of a Jewish sect and one of the original followers of Jesus of Nazareth never, before writing his Revelations, ever read the book of Daniel? You really think he completely forgot all that he knew of Daniel when he wrote?

The books are amazingly similar. It doesn't take some supernatural gift of the holy spirit to see parallels between the persecution he experienced in his day and that of the Jews under Babylonian exile (Daniel's time). Using historical themes of past persecution, tough times and God's redemption seems about as natural a connection as it gets and an artful way of giving hope to Christians.

[CVShooter]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

When in history was a third of all mankind killed, a third of the earth burned up and all life in the oceans killed? When was there such devastation that every island on earth wiped out and every coastland wiped out? When was there one ruler over all of earth that ordered all Christians to be beheaded? When was there destruction where meteors weighing a talent crushed everything, where mankind hid is caves and death fled? When did an army of 200 million march on Israel? When did Armageddon happen?

The hope in Revelation is that after the rapture of the church, God doesn’t destroy everyone left. People’s souls will be saved during the period. Those who do not receive the mark of the beast will suffer and be persecuted, many to death.

To your point, when in history has a persecuted or downtrodden minority group wished for everything in this giant world that we can't control to just crumble, implode, burn up, get destroyed and leave only themselves and others like them behind to usher in a new era of prosperity and solidarity? Hmm... Ever check out the survivalist section of this forum? Do you really think we're much different today than back then?

[Barang]

Originally Posted by CVShooter

So you think that John, a devout Jew, exiled leader of a Jewish sect and one of the original followers of Jesus of Nazareth never, before writing his Revelations, ever read the book of Daniel? You really think he completely forgot all that he knew of Daniel when he wrote?

The books are amazingly similar. It doesn't take some supernatural gift of the holy spirit to see parallels between the persecution he experienced in his day and that of the Jews under Babylonian exile (Daniel's time). Using historical themes of past persecution, tough times and God's redemption seems about as natural a connection as it gets and an artful way of giving hope to Christians.

Daniel was given a vision and so as John showing what must take place before the final judgement and God setting His kingdom here on earth for eternity. John was instructed to write down what he saw for us to read and be warned of the consequences for rejecting Jesus and rebellion against God.

the Book of Revelation has more details than Daniel's. consider 666, armageddon, false prophet and the beast thrown into the lake of fire, the Millennium, satan bound for a thousand years, the final battle, the white throne judgement, New Heaven and Earth, the Tree of Life, no more night, no more seas, and so much more.

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by CVShooter

To your point, when in history has a persecuted or downtrodden minority group wished for everything in this giant world that we can't control to just crumble, implode, burn up, get destroyed and leave only themselves and others like them behind to usher in a new era of prosperity and solidarity? Hmm... Ever check out the survivalist section of this forum? Do you really think we're much different today than back then?

You did not answer any of my question regarding what you previously posted. My questions were about items listed in the scriptures.

This isn’t about the “survivalist section.” This topic is in the discussions of faith forum.

You need to study the scriptures because you (above) say we usher in a new era. There is nothing in scripture that says we do that.

Can I send you a Bible to read?

[MattyMX]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

When in history was a third of all mankind killed, a third of the earth burned up and all life in the oceans killed? When was there such devastation that every island on earth wiped out and every coastland wiped out? When was there one ruler over all of earth that ordered all Christians to be beheaded? When was there destruction where meteors weighing a talent crushed everything, where mankind hid is caves and death fled? When did an army of 200 million march on Israel? When did Armageddon happen?

The hope in Revelation is that after the rapture of the church, God doesn’t destroy everyone left. People’s souls will be saved during the period. Those who do not receive the mark of the beast will suffer and be persecuted, many to death.

Tribulation saints!! What an honor but they did miss the boat the first time.

Has anyone here watched the movie "BEFORE THE RAPTURE"????
It puts everything in context as to why the church will not see the wrath. We wll be gone before that happens...

[CVShooter]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

You did not answer any of my question regarding what you previously posted. My questions were about items listed in the scriptures.

This isn’t about the “survivalist section.” This topic is in the discussions of faith forum.

You need to study the scriptures because you (above) say we usher in a new era. There is nothing in scripture that says we do that.

Can I send you a Bible to read?

If you can't see the connection, then I regret that there is nothing I can do to further your understanding. We just have to agree to disagree. I'm perfectly okay with that.

Forgive me if I got this wrong but your offer to send over a Bible felt much more like a back-handed way of saying, "CVShooter is an idiot." To which, I will follow the teachings of YOUR savior and offer you another strike. Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest before we can go back to having an intelligent conversation? I'd much rather discuss ancient literature, history and Biblical interpretation than dish out jabs at each other.

[CVShooter]

On another note, I never thought I'd see the day when a non-Christian, like me, sees more hope and love in the Biblical text than "true" believers. Some of you seem to prefer the doom and gloom message. And if that works for you, fine. Schadenfreude (the German word for feeling pleasure at the misfortune of your enemies) is natural. But it seems like a poor way to relate to others. While it's certainly coming from John, I don't think it's the point at all -- more of an underlying theme rather than the objective. He was, after all, living in exile at the time. So I get why he could feel bitter about Rome.

To which, I offer a question to the thread -- if I have misunderstood you, please offer to us your view of the hope and love in Revelation. How would its original recipients have read the text? What was John's objective in writing it? How does understanding Revelation help strengthen your faith?

[M1NM]

Originally Posted by realbadlarry

Kind of Scary that there is not really a Power from the West mentioned in the final battles....what happens to the US???

Discuss....

Ask Soros, Antifa and the Democrats

[gdr_11]

The only gloom and doom in The Revelation of Jesus Christis for non believers and, even then, it is clear that God will provide ample opportunity for sinners to repent and join the ranks of the tribulation saints.

The issue of the United States is really a moot one because, when the end times come, national identity will be meaningless. It is all about the fullfilment of God’s master plan for his people and the replacement of the old world with a new glorious one.

Amen, come Lord Jesus!

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by CVShooter

On another note, I never thought I'd see the day when a non-Christian, like me, sees more hope and love in the Biblical text than "true" believers. Some of you seem to prefer the doom and gloom message. And if that works for you, fine. Schadenfreude (the German word for feeling pleasure at the misfortune of your enemies) is natural. But it seems like a poor way to relate to others. While it's certainly coming from John, I don't think it's the point at all -- more of an underlying theme rather than the objective. He was, after all, living in exile at the time. So I get why he could feel bitter about Rome.

To which, I offer a question to the thread -- if I have misunderstood you, please offer to us your view of the hope and love in Revelation. How would its original recipients have read the text? What was John's objective in writing it? How does understanding Revelation help strengthen your faith?

Your ideas come across to me as something that someone who has not read the Bible would say. Thus, my offer to send you one for free. That way, you could see for yourself that what I’m saying is from the scriptures and not of my own accord. Neither your nor my opinions matter one iota.

In the Scriptures, in Christ, you will find the hope and love you are looking for. People will disappoint you. But Jesus never fails.