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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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What's up with ATF's stabilizing brace regs?
Does anyone know what the status is? I've heard rumors that they wanted it to go into effect in January but we are not in mid November and that wouldn't seem to give folks much opportunity to get in compliance.
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#2
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No movement publicly so far just that they said what they wanted to happen pretended to listen to her comments on it and it stalled there for the moment
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dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#4
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Oh, there's been movement
In the October 2021 issue of "Small Arms Review" magazine, Johanna Reeves, ESQ. writes about the ATF's proposed rulemaking on Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached "Stabilizing Braces".
On 10 June the ATF gave notice of proposed rulemaking to clarify when a firearm with a brace is a pistol or something else. ATF discusses the proposed rulemaking here: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ilizing-braces There is a worksheet ATF is proposing to help make case by case determinations. A copy may be viewed and / or downloaded here: https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download As the ATF website says, I think it's still proposed. But it may be wise to get ahead of the game by taking a look at what's posted. Hope this is helpful.
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"An unarmed man can only flee from evil. And evil is not overcome by fleeing from it" - Col. Jeff Cooper "Shot placement trumps all." |
#5
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Always wondering why CA people are worried about possible future Fed
action when they ALREADY have *California SBR* risk. If you have a braced pistol in CA you should have NFA AOW'd it to exploit the CA exemption to CA SBR laws. The Federal ATF memos, at least while still valid, have zero bearing on separate CA SBR and in fact give cops/judges/DAs a road map. Also, a gun that is an NFA AOW and was legally not a Federal SBR may be in a 'more interesting place' legally, pending any ATF action, than such a gun that's just an ordinary pistol with brace.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#6
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Quote:
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#7
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How does registering it like that affect your ability to transfer it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#8
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If anyone has insights into the mechanics of registering a pistol as an NFA AOW - perhaps recommend a legal mind to assist - I would appreciate it.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil. And evil is not overcome by fleeing from it" - Col. Jeff Cooper "Shot placement trumps all." |
#9
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Have people (CA or no) been successful in registering a braced pistol as an AOW?
It would seem that those features conflict with each other -- one designed to allow for one hand operation, the other allowing for two-hand operation. I tried twice and they just kind of ignored my applications... after months and months telling me to resubmit. Quote:
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#10
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I know there are some people who registered their bullet button ar pistols with braces that were accepted. I didn’t at the time because I didn’t own a brace and hadn’t been planning on buying one. Does that count for anything? |
#11
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Do you mean they registered it as a BBRAW? What he is talking about is registering it federally as an NFA item Ayo W Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#12
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Yes I mean about the bullet button AW pistols registered with a brace. He mentioned that the braces may be in violation of CA SBR laws anyways, however if they were, why were ar pistols accepted for registration with pictures of them having braces installed. If anything was out of place with the registration they would kick back the registration and require you to correct it. |
#13
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I think the point he is making is that there has not been a test case regarding the pistol brace with a A.R. pistol determining if California would consider it a SBR under the California law Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#14
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*To the OP question, I don't think anybody knows yet. Until they publish final rules, it's still in limbo and there's been no info since they asked for comments. |
#15
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#16
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I can appreciate there may be unique circumstances where acceptance or denial of registration may be useful.
In the general case acceptance of registration means just what others here have pointed out, some clerk thought the application worthy of acceptance. Weren't there instances of CA DOJ showing up at people's homes to inspect certain entries? Pretty sure there were.
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"An unarmed man can only flee from evil. And evil is not overcome by fleeing from it" - Col. Jeff Cooper "Shot placement trumps all." |
#18
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I don’t remember many of those. I know some had to do with 80% builds and self made single shot ar pistols. But those all revolved around 80%. I don’t know of any regular sse ar pistols with a bullet button and a brace generating any visits from the doj. |
#19
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You don’t know who you’re replying to.
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The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives. |
#20
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In the second scenario, the engraving you had put on the Title 2 item devalues the gun as it no longer applies to the buyer and he has to re-engrave it with his info if he makes it a Title 2 again. * there is hope. Rumors afloat that ATF is doing eForm 4 in 2022.
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The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives. |
#21
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You still riding old CGF hasbeen jock? That dude is no hero. And he (like the OP stated) was off topic.
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"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed" "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785 |
#23
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I registered an AR pistol as a BBAW with an SBm4 (non adjustable) attached and noted in the registration it was an arm brace.
It was accepted. It is now an form 1'd approved AOW. no issues with DOJ......................yet.
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"Ya dude just bought my 67th gun today"...... |
#24
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That's awesome as CADOJ can't try to charge you with CA SBR, as AOWs are exempted from CA SBR laws. Well done.
I tried to do the same but ATF just sat on it for months and then told me to resubmit. |
#25
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According to a discussion I recently had with a couple ATF folks, it's still working its way through main justice, state department, etc. It's decision is scheduled to be published in August.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#26
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1-30-22
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/br...l-regulations/ BREAKING: Federal Register Publishes Schedule For ATF’s Firearm, Silencer, and Pistol Brace Final Regulations page 357 (5111) https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/w...ations-Doc.pdf They also want to redefine what makes a receiver so swapping uppers or having uppers as "parts" will be a thing of the past. Stage 104. Definition of ‘‘Frame or Receiver’’ and Identification of Firearms new regulatory definitions of firearm frame or receiver and frame or receiver because they are outdated. Last edited by M1NM; 02-09-2022 at 2:03 PM.. |
#27
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The page of the document you link to does not say anything about uppers but it does allude to unserialized home made firearms: from the middle column, about halfway down on p.357(5111), Stage 104: Quote:
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#28
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Also, since they are openly talking about “traceability”, which would seem to clearly betray the spirit of the prohibition against a Federal registry of gun owners even if it does not break the letter of the law, could this new rule-making be the step too far taken by the other side which gives 2A defenders what we need to win a SC case solidifying our right to self/home-made arms.
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