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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-10-2024, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingransom View Post
It's not only mind boggling but unbelievably sad that the constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper with a bunch of words on it.
Only the parts the Democrat Socialists don?t like.
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  #82  
Old 02-10-2024, 7:21 AM
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Dupe Police - how can I help Ma'am?

Oh please - he's outside - all huge and bulging - did you see him?! Its disgusting! Yes ma'am - I've seen it....

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1901545

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-1u...channel=FrankE



Now be quiet and go easy on Mr. Quiet.

That is all.
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Last edited by CrazyCobraManTim; 02-10-2024 at 7:24 AM..
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  #83  
Old 02-10-2024, 10:11 AM
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Law of the land is BS. Maybe some land, not other land.

The SC has no enforcement mechanism. It relies on state governments to enforce rulings.

When a state can ignore them and declare their constitution to be superior there is no other recourse but to submit or take up arms against that state.
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  #84  
Old 02-10-2024, 10:24 AM
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Fine, reject/dissolve their statehood and they do whatever they want. Then, who cares.
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  #85  
Old 02-10-2024, 10:39 AM
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Here's the difference between Hawaii's reaction to Bruen and the reaction of California, Illinois, etc.

The other rogue states are pretending to follow the rule of law and have twisted Heller / Bruen into knots in an attempt to make them say what they want. Magazines over 10 rounds are only "used" if more than 10 rounds are fired, we can ban arms we think are "extra dangerous", etc.

The Hawaii Supreme Court is flat out giving SCOTUS the finger.

At least they're honest about it.

The Democrats haven't defied SCOTUS this badly since George Wallace vowed "Segregation now, Segregation tomorrow, Segregation forever."

Changing that required an executive branch willing to enforce the law. We're not going to get that from the current administration. I can visualize a Republican administration having Federal Marshalls perp walk members of the Hawaii Supreme Court into a police van.

The Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution:

Article VI, Clause 2:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Last edited by natman; 02-10-2024 at 2:20 PM..
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  #86  
Old 02-10-2024, 10:40 AM
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"No controlling legal authority" ~ Algore
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  #87  
Old 02-10-2024, 10:51 AM
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I have never considered Hawaii part of the US

It feels like a foreign country while visiting. The culture and lifestyle is completely different.

Should have remained a territory as it was when I was a child.

Last edited by Dan_Eastvale; 02-10-2024 at 10:54 AM..
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  #88  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post

The case is Hawaii vs Wilson. And if you haven't seen or heard of it yet, you should.

While your OP here is far more informative than the OP of yore, we did! hear about this, here in CGN OT, the day before yesterday. Therefore, thou hath dupeth.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1901354

That said, as I have alluded to, we like your post better. Duper.
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  #89  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:21 AM
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What post or thread did harbormaster dupe?

This thread was posted 02-08-2024, 3:51 PM to L8's 02-09-2024, 11:59 PM...


*headscratch*



And please pardon me... for I do not wish to detract from this grave, egregious move by the State of Hawaii... but if one is going to claim dupth, one should provide an appropriate linkology.
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  #90  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:28 AM
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See thread immediately above your thread (my thread w/ embedded CG link).

Carry on.
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  #91  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:45 AM
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I have never considered Hawaii part of the US

It feels like a foreign country while visiting. The culture and lifestyle is completely different.

Should have remained a territory as it was when I was a child.
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  #92  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I actually look forward to Hawaii trying to enforce this. Why? I'd love to see it fast-tracked to the USSC and potentially have even more clarification from the Bruen decision.
Realistically, it's non-enforceable.
As long as the legislature and law enforcement adhere to at least a veiled
faux acceptance of BRUEN (which is what they are currently doing), this will go nowhere and is just a stomping of their feet temper tantrum.

Now, if HI legislature and/or law enforcement go completely rogue, then things will change drastically. Now, I know that their current adherence is a smoke screen and that's another discussion, but for now at least their faux allowance for public right to carry is enough to keep SCOTUS away while things work through the lower courts.

They are smart enough to know this and I doubt the HI ruling will change anything. So one way we can look at this is just another court ignoring BRUEN just like 9th, 7th and 2nd. The difference is the federal courts try to provide a somewhat scholarly if even dishonest opinion, whereas the HI court's opinion is high school (or grade school level) scholarship.
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  #93  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post
The case is Hawaii vs Wilson. And if you haven't seen or heard of it yet, you should. Given how bad it is...how much it gives a middle finger to 2A and SCOTUS...it may very well get fast tracked to SCOTUS. Some of the things Hawaii's Supreme Court said are truly astounding. It's like the Hawaii Supreme Court said to the 9th District court, "hold my pineapple."


Quick Background:

Mr. Wilson was caught carrying a .22 pistol in Hawaii without a license (which historically has been unobtainable in Hawaii). A lower court found in favor of Mr Wilson that he does, in fact, have a 2A defense and that the Hawaii law on the books was unconstitutional.


Washington Gun Law:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7SRGa0YUs






4 Boxes Diner has also done a video on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTqtmYjKtwU

You don't say?!

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1901354
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  #94  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
Good moral character does not sound objective. Imagine if voting registration required public officials to determine good moral character.
Of course it's not. But all (or most) of the left leaning states have supplanted good cause for GMC. That way they can deny a healthy percentage of applicants. Until some related case reaches SCOTUS, that's just the way it's gonna be. District courts may enjoin, but the appeals courts are going to allow.
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  #95  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
It feels like a foreign country while visiting. The culture and lifestyle is completely different.
Ive heard the same thing said about Louisiana.

Should we kick them out too?
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  #96  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
While your OP here is far more informative than the OP of yore, we did! hear about this, here in CGN OT, the day before yesterday. Therefore, thou hath dupeth.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1901354

That said, as I have alluded to, we like your post better. Duper.
And yet still, this is decidedly ON topic.
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  #97  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
While your OP here is far more informative than the OP of yore, we did! hear about this, here in CGN OT, the day before yesterday. Therefore, thou hath dupeth.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1901354

That said, as I have alluded to, we like your post better. Duper.
Welcome to the Party Pal .....

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  #98  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:13 PM
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I hear "Dog the Bounty Hunter" is completely accurate take on Hawaii, with "Hawaii Five-Oh" not bad for old Hawaii.

Most Hawaiians are rather pathetic dumb criminals with various drug habits, rock bottom(pardon puns) prostitution to fuel habits.

Used to be SOP before Hawaii became a State that judges would offer 1-way tickets to Hawaii in lieu of prison on some theory USA needed "real Americans" to inhabit to hold the territory.

I also hear that ethnic cliques exist in Hawaii in ways unimagined on Main Land, and that includes all levels of Govt.
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  #99  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:25 PM
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Hawaii is a stupid place. Without Hawaii, California would be the state with most stupid by percentage, but Hawaii never seems to disappoint when it comes to a state full of retards.
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  #100  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
I have never considered Hawaii part of the US

It feels like a foreign country while visiting. The culture and lifestyle is completely different.

Should have remained a territory as it was when I was a child.
It is a child like culture over there, and one encouraged by all the white liberals who love to make the place home.

After Hawaii scrapped their sugarcane and most of the pineapple industry, there really isn't much use for the place other than military bases and tourism.

It used to be a pleasant place to visit, but in the last 25 years or so with the idiotic sovereignty whiney baby movement infecting the minds of the locals into a frenzy of victim class demands..... screw them! I can vacation in a hundred places where I don't need to worry about being spit on by fellow American citizens.
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  #101  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:32 PM
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is Aloha Spirt like Hawaiian Punch?
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  #102  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:53 PM
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The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals just ruled that "futility" can be used as standing in a 2A case. This applies to the HI case where the HI SC ruled that because the Defendant never applied, he does not have standing to challenge that aspect of the law.

To nobody's surprise, HI gets it wrong again.

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  #103  
Old 02-10-2024, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
Law of Self Defense's 1.5hr video on it.

He goes through the entire decision, line by line.
Here is a 45-minute Part 2 follow-up.


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  #104  
Old 02-10-2024, 3:22 PM
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FYI.
Multiple threads on this topic have been merged into one thread located in the appropriate subforum.
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  #105  
Old 02-10-2024, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyAbrams View Post
Sell Hawaii to China for 35 Trillion Dollars.

See how those Island Liberaturds like them Apples.

And we get to cancel the national debt, while we are at it.

We don't need Hawaii.

Phuc Hawaii.


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  #106  
Old 02-10-2024, 9:24 PM
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Kostas Moros got quite spicy on his Twitter thread about the Hawaii decision.
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  #107  
Old 02-11-2024, 1:00 AM
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The Hawaii Supreme Court needs the President Eisenhower massive resistance treatment. A future Republican president ought to enforce the Constitution on the islands, as well as every other left-wing area, with decisive forceful action.
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  #108  
Old 02-11-2024, 5:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
The Hawaii Supreme Court needs the President Eisenhower massive resistance treatment. A future Republican president ought to enforce the Constitution on the islands, as well as every other left-wing area, with decisive forceful action.
Yes. I can vision it now. POTUS nationalizes the Hawaii National Guard to protect open carrying Hawaiians marching in front of the state's Supreme Court.
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  #109  
Old 02-11-2024, 9:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals just ruled that "futility" can be used as standing in a 2A case.
"futility"? I don't get it.

But I have heard that a Hawaiian court once ruled a unilateral change in written contract could be valid if the party making the change pressed really hard when writing to show he "really really means it"(and of course Native Hawaiian).
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  #110  
Old 02-11-2024, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
"futility"? I don't get it.

But I have heard that a Hawaiian court once ruled a unilateral change in written contract could be valid if the party making the change pressed really hard when writing to show he "really really means it"(and of course Native Hawaiian).
The state is claiming that the plaintiff lacks standing to sue over Hawaii's concealed carry laws because he didn't apply for a CCW license.

The "futility" concept means that even if he had applied for a license, he wouldn't have gotten one (true), so it would have been futile to even try. Therefore, he has standing because of the futility of applying for a license he'd never get.
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  #111  
Old 02-11-2024, 11:41 AM
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I could see SCOTUS issuing a per curium GVR with instructions to basically try again and leave out the language claiming SCOTUS rulings are not binding with regards to COTUS interpretation.

The Hawaii state court can issue essentially the same conclusion in an opinion without that language and then the subsequent appeal will be denied cert.
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  #112  
Old 02-11-2024, 12:28 PM
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It would need a lot more than that to GVR.

It would have to clarify the THT test to remind HI that pre-Statehood history is not to be considered as it relates to HI's history. It would also need to clarify the "futility" standard for claiming "standing". I am sure there are others, but I am not up on the minutia of SCOTUS rulings and how they apply to State law interpretation.
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  #113  
Old 02-11-2024, 2:01 PM
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I lived in HI for seven years. Here's my take.

There are not that many 'Hawaiians' left. They suffered similar fate as Native Americans, i.e. warfare and disease.

The Islands today are an ethnic mix of mostly ethnic Asians, Caucasians and pacific islanders (non-Hawaiians).

The largest majority ethnic groups are Chinese ethnic and Japanese ethnic.
By far most are generations removed from their ethnic origins.

In third place are Caucasians, mostly from continental U.S. many having lived there for generations.

The rest are an eclectic mix of myriad other ethnic groups.

It is definitely a unique culture unlike any other in U.S. because of it's ethnic
blending.

Many if not most have traditionally socially conservative cultures and they could be potential allies. But unfortunately like their minority counter parts in the mainland, they are suspicious of the Republican party and align themselves with the democrat party. much because of the perceived racism.
Even though the democrat party has a much longer and more virulent history of racism, the democrats have won the public relations war, lets face it.

As far as the HSSC ruling goes, it's an empty hollow and farcical gesture and so far has no force of law. Even the states Attorney admitted such. Having admitted that permitted carry is the law of the land.
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  #114  
Old 02-11-2024, 2:04 PM
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"Hawaii's laws "allow a person to carry a handgun for self-defense outside the home if they have a license,"

HSSC Chief Justice Eddins begrudgingly admits.
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  #115  
Old 02-11-2024, 2:41 PM
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If I remember my history correctly, Hawaii couldn't defend itself from much of anything. Not surprisingly they would take this stance. Wife has family in Hawaii, and she asked how's that separation from the USA going?

Her Sister at least is a conservative with a brain. Her husband? the jury is out on that one.
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  #116  
Old 02-12-2024, 12:00 AM
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The Hawaii Supreme Court saga highlights how adding new states is a momentous decision that must come with the greatest due diligence and utmost care.

Democrats want to admit the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, and U.S. Virgin Islands as states. Republicans must never allow such dilution of traditional American values and packing of the Senate.
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  #117  
Old 02-12-2024, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickybillegas View Post
"Hawaii's laws "allow a person to carry a handgun for self-defense outside the home if they have a license,"

HSSC Chief Justice Eddins begrudgingly admits.
But isn?t the issue with the HI licensing scheme the same as NYSRPA v Bruen, that HI rarely issues a license? Therefore the licensing serves effectively as a ban without calling it a ban?
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  #118  
Old 02-12-2024, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
But isn't the issue with the HI licensing scheme the same as NYSRPA v Bruen, that HI rarely issues a license? Therefore the licensing serves effectively as a ban without calling it a ban?
Exactly. Hawaii behaves the same way as the most left-wing counties in California. In San Francisco, for example, concealed carry licenses have become shall-issue on paper, but good luck actually getting one.
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  #119  
Old 02-12-2024, 12:37 PM
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  #120  
Old 02-12-2024, 2:00 PM
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Mark Smith does not believe that the Supreme Court will take this case, due to unfavorable facts and a suboptimal background.
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