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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 01-03-2024, 11:41 AM
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Default S&W MP15-22

Decided to give the S&W MP15-22 another try!!

I had the older MP15-22 with the quad rail but sold it.

Loving the Mlok rails and look overall. And love how I can buy cheap accessories off Amazon and they will hold zero lol.

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Old 01-03-2024, 3:50 PM
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I spend more on an upgraded trigger, red dot and furniture than what the rifle cost. It is fun shooter and have send a lof of bullets downrange with it.
Love the easy cleaning and disassembly compared to my 10/22, which haven’t seen daylight in a while.
Hope you enjoy yours.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2024, 4:36 PM
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Took it to the range today. I was reminded why I also sold it......lots of stuck casings lol. Still lots of fun though!

But I believe upgrading the extractor will remedy the issue.
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Old 01-04-2024, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
Took it to the range today. I was reminded why I also sold it......lots of stuck casings lol. Still lots of fun though!

But I believe upgrading the extractor will remedy the issue.
I was running the factory extractor for years.
Some of the 15-22 are ammo sensitive.

I run Federal Bulk (bricks of 525 or more) for years, no issue.
Also never have had a jam, FTE, or FTF, using Mini mags.

It does choke, a lot, on Federal Automatch, about once per mag.
Winchester bulk has the same issue.

the 100 packs of Winchester seem to run good.

I recommend that you avoid lead round nose and only stick to plated or jackets bullets.

Mine also hated Remington Golden bullets, especially the buckets.
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Old 01-04-2024, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sirgrumps View Post
I was running the factory extractor for years.
Some of the 15-22 are ammo sensitive.

I run Federal Bulk (bricks of 525 or more) for years, no issue.
Also never have had a jam, FTE, or FTF, using Mini mags.

It does choke, a lot, on Federal Automatch, about once per mag.
Winchester bulk has the same issue.

the 100 packs of Winchester seem to run good.

I recommend that you avoid lead round nose and only stick to plated or jackets bullets.

Mine also hated Remington Golden bullets, especially the buckets.
It choked on basically all ammo I brought, even CCI had some hang ups. I brought SK semi auto, Blazer, Federal Champion, CCI (various packs).

So far the most reliable 22 plinksters I own are the HK416-22 and the Ruger 10/22 (old model), they'll eat anything.

I'll swap out the extractor and see if it does anything. From what i've seen on Youtube, it does help a lot.
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Old 01-04-2024, 7:22 PM
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I’ve got 4000 rounds fired with mine and I can count the number of stoppage on one hand, all cheap bulk box ammo. It absolutely loves Remington Golden bullets and Federal Automatch, I got 6 25 round mags and often empty them all in just a couple of minutes. I’ve been stunned by how great mine runs, bone stock. Got a cheap $60 red dot, a Bravo Co stubby foregrip, minimalist stock and cheap sling and it just runs fantastic.
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Old 01-04-2024, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
Took it to the range today. I was reminded why I also sold it......
lots of stuck casings lol. Still lots of fun though!

But I believe upgrading the extractor will remedy the issue.
The extractor in a blowback firearm does not extract fired casings.
The extractor is there to act as a pivot point for the ejector.
It's also there to extract live rounds.

When a round is fired in a blowback gun, the case slides out of the chamber from the pressure in the barrel that's pushing the bullet down the barrel.

If you have failures of the case to come out of the chamber, it's because of something in the chamber is not letting the case slide out or there is some other problem with too much spring tension of too much grunge that the bolt is not moving freely.
Clean and polish the chamber and bolt and lube the bolt and deburr the edge of the chamber and you should not have any more extraction troubles.

Ejection troubles are caused by too much extractor tension.
The extractor needs to let the case go when the case strikes the ejector.
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Old 01-04-2024, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The extractor in a blowback firearm does not extract fired casings.
The extractor is there to act as a pivot point for the ejector.
It's also there to extract live rounds.

When a round is fired in a blowback gun, the case slides out of the chamber from the pressure in the barrel that's pushing the bullet down the barrel.

If you have failures of the case to come out of the chamber, it's because of something in the chamber is not letting the case slide out or there is some other problem with too much spring tension of too much grunge that the bolt is not moving freely.
Clean and polish the chamber and bolt and lube the bolt and deburr the edge of the chamber and you should not have any more extraction troubles.

Ejection troubles are caused by too much extractor tension.
The extractor needs to let the case go when the case strikes the ejector.
I am having the 100% exact same issues as the video below. Once he replaced the extractor, the issue was resolved. The comments echo the same problem and how the extractor fixed their issue.



The part is $16, there is really no harm in replacing it.
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Old 01-04-2024, 11:28 PM
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The good cleaning that he gave the rifle probably fixed the problem.
He also switched to a different kind of ammo than he was having problems with.
Cleaning a rifle AND changing a part AND changing ammo types means you can not tell what actually fixed the problem.
If you want to test a part change, do NOT change anything else.
Change the part and test.

If you just want to make the gun work, clean and lube it first and then try different ammos.
Those two will fix most 22LR problems.
If the problem continues after cleaning and with all ammo types, THEN you can change a part and see what happens.
If ONLY changing the part fixes the problem, then you found the problem.

But there's no way you credit the part change as fixing a problem when you also cleaned/lubed the gun and shot different ammo.

Most of the time when I get these types of problems through my hands, the extractor spring and detent are so crudded up that the extractor does not move freely.
Simple cleaning and lube fixes the problem.
Sometimes, the extractor is mis-shapen or has a burr that restricts it's movement.
Sometimes the barrel is out of alignment which causes the extractor to bind in the barrel.
All of these issues will cause problems and all are fixable without parts replacement.
Most people thinking they are fixing these problems by switching a part are ALSO cleaning out the crud and lubing the new extractor at the same time they put it in and then they incorrectly claim the new extractor fixed the gun.
I would bet that in 90-95% of cases, you could put the OLD extractor back in AFTER the clean and lube and the gun will run the same as with the new extractor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
I am having the 100% exact same issues as the video below. Once he replaced the extractor, the issue was resolved. The comments echo the same problem and how the extractor fixed their issue.



The part is $16, there is really no harm in replacing it.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2024, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The good cleaning that he gave the rifle probably fixed the problem.
He also switched to a different kind of ammo than he was having problems with.
Cleaning a rifle AND changing a part AND changing ammo types means you can not tell what actually fixed the problem.
If you want to test a part change, do NOT change anything else.
Change the part and test.

If you just want to make the gun work, clean and lube it first and then try different ammos.
Those two will fix most 22LR problems.
If the problem continues after cleaning and with all ammo types, THEN you can change a part and see what happens.
If ONLY changing the part fixes the problem, then you found the problem.

But there's no way you credit the part change as fixing a problem when you also cleaned/lubed the gun and shot different ammo.

Most of the time when I get these types of problems through my hands, the extractor spring and detent are so crudded up that the extractor does not move freely.
Simple cleaning and lube fixes the problem.
Sometimes, the extractor is mis-shapen or has a burr that restricts it's movement.
Sometimes the barrel is out of alignment which causes the extractor to bind in the barrel.
All of these issues will cause problems and all are fixable without parts replacement.
Most people thinking they are fixing these problems by switching a part are ALSO cleaning out the crud and lubing the new extractor at the same time they put it in and then they incorrectly claim the new extractor fixed the gun.
I would bet that in 90-95% of cases, you could put the OLD extractor back in AFTER the clean and lube and the gun will run the same as with the new extractor.
He switched to CCI in the beginning and it was still giving him issues. But he posted a video of what he did to the rifle and all he did was replace the extractor.

Mine is brand spanking new so I don't see how cleaning it would fix it. Literally out of the box. My HK416-22 did not jam once straight out of the box.
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Old 01-05-2024, 8:03 PM
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Hate to say this but I will.. I would get rid of the SW and build an actual "real" one with a CMMG Bolt, from PSA, or RTB.. For people who own the SW and have never known how nice and ultra reliable a AR in the .22 platform can be..Are missing out by buying the SW.. Mine runs 100% reliable on any ammo I put in it, and I use only a dry lube in it if I think I really need to..

I know it is a little more money to do it right the first time.. But you know the old saying..Buy once, only cry once.. And you can have a non plastic Rifle then also.. I have found the only useful thing about a SW is the magazines.. they did get that part right.. Sorry it may sound harsh.. But the criticisms I have for the SW is well deserved from my experiences....
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Old 01-06-2024, 9:17 AM
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I have several .22 AR's built from uppers purchased from PSA, Nordic Components, and ..... can't remember offhand who made the other 2, but they were good makes. I also have a S&W 15/22.

The plastic S&W is far and away the most reliable and the most fun. Everyone wants to shoot it much more than the others when I bring all of them out.
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:22 AM
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^^^^^^^
What I like is the weight.
Just heavy enough it does not feel like a toy.
Have not had any issues from day one.
Only added Scope, Grip and Stock from MagPul.
Everyone who shoots it always has a big smile after.
Not to mention money still in the wallet.





With the big brother.
Borderline if I want to use cantilever mount since I like having stock fully extended.


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Old 01-06-2024, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillman View Post
^^^^^^^
What I like is the weight.
Just heavy enough it does not feel like a toy.
Have not had any issues from day one.
Only added Scope, Grip and Stock from MagPul.
Everyone who shoots it always has a big smile after.
Not to mention money still in the wallet.





With the big brother.
Borderline if I want to use cantilever mount since I like having stock fully extended.


Oh I agree. I absolutely love the weight and profile of it.

I am just hoping to work out the issues with this little plinker. I took some footage. I only got one flawless 10 round mag through it.

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Old 01-06-2024, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
I would get rid of the SW and build an actual "real" one with a CMMG Bolt, from PSA, or RTB.. For people who own the SW and have never known how nice and ultra reliable a AR in the .22 platform can be..Are missing out by buying the SW.. Mine runs 100% reliable on any ammo I put in it, and I use only a dry lube in it if I think I really need to..

I know it is a little more money to do it right the first time.. But you know the old saying..Buy once, only cry once.. And you can have a non plastic Rifle then also.. I have found the only useful thing about a SW is the magazines.. they did get that part right..
I have those "real" ones, one is built on the CMMG/Ciener system, and the other on the Nordic/JP/BCA. 15-22 has all of these beat for Last Round Bolt Hold Open, or LRBHO. Yes, it is very possible to get that functionality with special parts (namely, AR-Catch22, Boonie Packer, shims, etc) and of course, 15-22 magazines, which the S&W rifle already comes with.

So without any building, you can get a ready-to-shoot rifle with LRBHO and decent mags to boot. Or, tinker with parts and build up an AR-22. All the above rifles work well with quality high-velocity ammo, like CCI AR or CCI Minimags, or what I like to shoot, Eley Force.

Not everyone wants to get into building, and a lot of people like LRBHO. So yes, (mostly plastic) 15-22, and Tippmann Arms .22 AR are pretty good guns out of the box. They function just fine and the accuracy’s good enough for what they cost, which is not that much considering.
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Old 01-06-2024, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
Oh I agree. I absolutely love the weight and profile of it.

I am just hoping to work out the issues with this little plinker. I took some footage. I only got one flawless 10 round mag through it.
Yea...that would drive me nuts.
Have no idea if a non issue but holding the magazine could be cocking it during recoil/feeding.
I would hope the small amount of movement does not affect reliability.
Some people had issue with 10/22 magazine movement causing problems.


Hope it get resolved soon......
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Old 01-06-2024, 2:37 PM
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I agree I’ve built more than a few AR’s, currently have 7. I don’t want to waste time or money building what’s basically a toy, just a plinker 22lr. When I can buy one complete that runs great for under $500, it’s a no brainer.
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Old 01-07-2024, 9:12 AM
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I have put together many AR22s using CMMG Bolts.. Most at well under 500.00 if you shop wisely.. I do not care what anyone says.. Those SW will NOT stand the test of time.. I do not mean 5 years..I mean a real test of time..

I keep seeing people say the SW is reliable.. I have also seen many claim the opposite... Stormvet..What exactly is the problem you have with functioning in your assembled AR22s? Mine all run 100% and you cannot beat that record.. And they do have a plastic receiver.. I do not care what people say about the greatness of those plastic Firearms.. The makers did not come up with all this plastic crap to help us.. They did it for themselves.


But to each his own..If a cheaper gun keeps more buyers interested in the hobby..Great.. I myself just prefer to have a little higher quality in my stuff....
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Old 01-07-2024, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
It choked on basically all ammo I brought, even CCI had some hang ups. I brought SK semi auto, Blazer, Federal Champion, CCI (various packs).

So far the most reliable 22 plinksters I own are the HK416-22 and the Ruger 10/22 (old model), they'll eat anything.

I'll swap out the extractor and see if it does anything. From what i've seen on Youtube, it does help a lot.

Where are you located?
If you come down to my range, On Target, let's just trade bolts.
You could run your bolt in my upper.
and I could run your bolt in my upper
I know what ammo works in mine.

Either way, we will get you an answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillman View Post
Yea...that would drive me nuts.
Have no idea if a non issue but holding the magazine could be cocking it during recoil/feeding.
I would hope the small amount of movement does not affect reliability.
Some people had issue with 10/22 magazine movement causing problems.



Hope it get resolved soon......
I will support the rifle, standing, with my palm holding or supporting the 10 rd magazine and do not have issues, with most ammo.
As I have said, mine chokes on Federal Automatch.
In fact, mine does not like plain lead bullets. The must be plated, or I will have issues.
The only conflict, so far, it hates ANY Remington rimfire ammo, especially, Golden Bullets.
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Old 01-07-2024, 1:33 PM
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Years ago, I was vacillating between the S&W and a SIG 522, and decided to get the Sig, the only other semi auto .22 other than my 10/22s (including Kidd). It has been flawless, 100% reliable feeding, and other than the occasional bad .22LR round, operates like clock work. Just took it out two weeks ago and shot 200 rds of Mini Mags thru it, an extremely fun plinker. No regrets.
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Old 01-07-2024, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
I have put together many AR22s using CMMG Bolts.. Most at well under 500.00 if you shop wisely.. I do not care what anyone says.. Those SW will NOT stand the test of time.. I do not mean 5 years..I mean a real test of time..

I keep seeing people say the SW is reliable.. I have also seen many claim the opposite... Stormvet..What exactly is the problem you have with functioning in your assembled AR22s? Mine all run 100% and you cannot beat that record.. And they do have a plastic receiver.. I do not care what people say about the greatness of those plastic Firearms.. The makers did not come up with all this plastic crap to help us.. They did it for themselves.


But to each his own..If a cheaper gun keeps more buyers interested in the hobby..Great.. I myself just prefer to have a little higher quality in my stuff....
I have zero functioning problems with the AR?s I?ve built, they are all 5.56. I just don?t care to build 22 lr. I consider 22lr to be a plinker and a toy more then a serious rifle and just don?t want to put the time or money into a toy.
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Old 01-08-2024, 5:11 PM
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I bought an M&P15-22 about 6 years ago when my oldest boy was about 9 years old. It's unbelievable how much fun him and his brother have had with it at the range. Younger shooters or people that have a hard time picking up heavy rifles just love them. They are light and adjustable to smaller stature shooters. It's been very reliable after thousands of rounds. I have had people comment on it after range sessions. I run mostly CCI through it. I even have the CCI AR Tactical stuff thats made for it though I can't tell any difference between that and just regular mini-mags. Fun rifle!
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Old 01-08-2024, 9:17 PM
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My 15-22 has been great, even ran some CCI SV through it and it had no issues. Have had a few stovepipes with a bad batch of golden bullets, but otherwise no issues.
Definitely easy to clean. I don’t take the bolt assembly apart for most cleanings.
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Old 01-27-2024, 11:47 AM
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So I took it to the range and swapping out the original extractor definitely fixed my problem. Out of around 400 rounds fired, not a single stuck casing or failure to eject.

However, i'm having an issue with the case not even being struck. Very strange. I would eject the round, then I physically inspected it and no mark at all. So it isn't a light strike. I haven't cleaned it yet since my last range trip so I am going to give it a good scrubbing. I have a feeling the firing pin channel might be gummed up.
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Old 01-27-2024, 2:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
Mine is brand spanking new so I don't see how cleaning it would fix it.
Literally out of the box.
Most guns are shipped with preservative grease on them to protect them for long term storage.
This grease is not necessarily good as a lubricant for function and should be cleaned off and then the gun should be properly lubricated for function.

This is mentioned in many operation manuals that people rarely read.
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Old 01-27-2024, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
This grease is not necessarily good as a lubricant for function and should be cleaned off and then the gun should be properly lubricated for function.

This is mentioned in many operation manuals that people rarely read.
I call your attention to page 27 of Smith & Wesson's manual for the M&P 15-22 rimfire rifle:

-Before using your firearm for the first time, it should be cleaned.

-Your firearm was treated at the factory with either a preservative or oil to protect it against corrosion during shipping and storage.

-Preservative and oil should be wiped from the bore, chamber and exposed areas using a clean swab or patch before using the firearm.

So yes, even the manufacturer says to clean the gun of their preservative/oil BEFORE USING the firearm. It's so important, S&W states it not just once, but twice! Apparently, they really don't want you to use that gun before cleaning it first.

But what the hell do they know? All they did was make the gun, right?



Sarcasm aside, there's a few other things to note about the 15-22 according to the manual:

Page 10, Bottom:
The match grade chamber found in the Performance Center M&P 15-22 rifle is designed specifically for semi-autos and is different from a standard chamber in that it will not accommodate the longer case of the CCI Stinger brand ammunition.

Page 13, Bottom:
CAUTION: Never dry-fire the rifle as damage to the firearm could result.

Page 14, Top:
Before using your firearm for the first time, it should be cleaned. See the cleaning section of this manual. (That's three places that state to clean the gun before using!)

Page 16, Bottom:
WARNING: THIS FIREARM MAY DISCHARGE ACCIDENTALLY WHEN A ROUND IS FED INTO THE CHAMBER, IF IT IS DROPPED OR RECEIVES A BLOW TO THE MUZZLE OR FRONT OF THE FIREARM. (THIS CAN OCCUR REGARDLESS OF THE POSITION OF THE HAMMER OR ANY OF THE VARIOUS SAFETY DEVICES.)
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Last edited by Zenderfall; 01-27-2024 at 3:48 PM..
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2024, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
So I took it to the range and swapping out the original extractor definitely fixed my problem. Out of around 400 rounds fired, not a single stuck casing or failure to eject.

However, i'm having an issue with the case not even being struck. Very strange. I would eject the round, then I physically inspected it and no mark at all. So it isn't a light strike. I haven't cleaned it yet since my last range trip so I am going to give it a good scrubbing. I have a feeling the firing pin channel might be gummed up.
Glad to hear the FTEs are resolved. What extractor did you get?

Hmm, no rim strike, wonder if the bolt was fully in battery. Never tested it, but hard to know on blow back systems if it will allow the hammer to drop on out of battery bolts.
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2024, 8:20 AM
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The S&W M&P15-22P's are a ton of fun too!! Neat little plinker direct from S&W!!

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Old 02-10-2024, 10:49 AM
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Man I’ve had a 15/22 for like a decade and only cleaned it maybe three times. It’s so dirty it’s ridiculous and it runs great. About to dust it off and give it a cleaning as my boy is finally old enough to shoot it.
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Old 02-10-2024, 12:17 PM
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Ok so I took it to the range. Still haven't cleaned it lol.

But it's weird, it did a lot better today with around maybe 5-8 of the failure to strikes? I shot close to 400 rounds today.

And it seems to love Federal Automatch though. I ran around 100 rounds of automatch and not a single issue.

Here are some pics of the failure to strike. You can see the striker tries to hit but just leaves a dirty mark.





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Old 02-11-2024, 1:20 PM
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Automatch is probably my favorite cheap bulk box 22, I?ve shot a lot of it. The only time my 15/22 has failed to fire was ammo related, very strong hammer strikes. Firing pin gummed up or weak hammer spring maybe, I?d check them. Those rounds you posted were barely touched by the firing pin.
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Old 02-11-2024, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
And it seems to love Federal Automatch though. I ran around 100 rounds of automatch and not a single issue.

Here are some pics of the failure to strike. You can see the striker tries to hit but just leaves a dirty mark.
My experience with Automatch is the exact opposite. my 15-22 seems to hate Automatch. I get a FTE or FTF every magazine.

My rifle seems to have issues with any ammo that is just plain lead. Any plated bullet runs just fine.

I run generic Federal or Winchester bulk. I about one or two FTE or FTF in every brick.
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Old 02-11-2024, 3:42 PM
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The S&W M&P15-22P's are a ton of fun too!! Neat little plinker direct from S&W!!

I bought my granddaughter a 15-22p. She loves it. I liked it so much I bought one for myself and put a franklin armory binary trigger in it. It is a blast to shoot. We've had no issues with either of them.
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Old 02-11-2024, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormvet View Post
Automatch is probably my favorite cheap bulk box 22, I?ve shot a lot of it. The only time my 15/22 has failed to fire was ammo related, very strong hammer strikes. Firing pin gummed up or weak hammer spring maybe, I?d check them. Those rounds you posted were barely touched by the firing pin.


I took some footage. I captured two failure to strikes at 1:43 and 2:25.

Looks like the bolt isn't going into full battery when it happens.
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Old 02-11-2024, 9:03 PM
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I was gonna get one but took an old upper flipped the gas port and put in my cmmg 22lr conversion bcg. Put it on my lower with pic rail adapter on it.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2024, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
He switched to CCI in the beginning and it was still giving him issues. But he posted a video of what he did to the rifle and all he did was replace the extractor.

Mine is brand spanking new so I don't see how cleaning it would fix it. Literally out of the box. My HK416-22 did not jam once straight out of the box.
I recently got a Baikal MP161k.



It's a blowback detatchable magazine fed semi-auto just like an M&P15-22 or 10-22.
It is completely missing the extractor and detent and spring.
I ran half a dozen full mags through it with absolutely no malfunctions today.

I was worried that I might have a misfire and the cartridge would be stuck in the chamber because I don't have an extractor but my worries were unfounded.
The gun ran flawlessly.
I still want to put an extractor in it though in case I ever do get a misfire.
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  #37  
Old 02-12-2024, 4:39 PM
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I have a 1st Gen m&p 15-22. Like when they literally first started selling them. I haven't used it in quite some time, but I think last time I took it out, it was double firing. Something about the bolt not closing?
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  #38  
Old 02-12-2024, 5:15 PM
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I recently got a Baikal MP161k.

According to published specs, that Baikal .22 weighs 10 pounds!!! Is that accurate?
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Old 02-12-2024, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gunnlover View Post
I have a 1st Gen m&p 15-22. Like when they literally first started selling them. I haven't used it in quite some time, but I think last time I took it out, it was double firing. Something about the bolt not closing?
no, the bolt face was not cut deep enough.

click the link to S&W an request for the measuring gauge and follow the instructions.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/...r-safety-alert
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Old 02-13-2024, 1:10 AM
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According to published specs, that Baikal .22 weighs 10 pounds!!! Is that accurate?
Maybe that weight includes a wood crate?

My rifle without any accessories other than an empty magazine locked into the action weighs 6lb 1.6oz
My rifle is missing the extractor and spring though so a complete one might run closer to 6lb 2oz.
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