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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-02-2021, 3:21 PM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Default M1A and AR10

How do the top tier M1A ( LRB or custom rifle build on LRB receiver) and AR-10 (LWRC , ETC) compare? If reliability is the MAIN or only consideration.
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2021, 3:45 PM
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I have both. M1A is Fulton Armory, the AR 10 is Armalite. Both work fine.
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2021, 3:51 PM
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I got rid of my M1A to clunky and built couple ar 10s. Like my ar10s.
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Old 05-02-2021, 4:10 PM
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Biggest issue with the M1A and AR308, is they get heavy fast if you put a magnified optic on them.

I have a small red dot on an M1A Scout. I use a 4x optic on a couple 16" "lightweight" AR308s.

If you want to use higher magification I highly suggest a bolt action.
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Old 05-02-2021, 4:51 PM
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If reliability is the MAIN concern you need to look at a PTR/G3 type rifle in 308.

Out of the 2 the OP mentioned I will say it's anybody's guess. Too many changes to the AR clones to keep up with these days. The M1A/M14 clone types are pretty consistent performers given proper lube and good ammo. Think battle rifle and not sniper/match rifle uses. We're talking grinders.

Both of my SA M1A's have had no problems that could not be related to wonky ammo over the years. Well over 10 years now with all original parts except I swapped in a narrower front sight blade on the Socom16. Never had to replace bolt gas rings on them either.

M14 Rifle History and Development (Online Edition - April 25, 2009) Lee Emerson
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=4323

Great read.
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Old 05-02-2021, 5:19 PM
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I have a bunch of M14 clones and they all work fine. Fulton's are far and away my favorite, but I have a SA M21 that's a lights out shooter. I also have a couple Fulton Titan's and they are fricking lasers. I could hand any gun guy either and they would be MOA or better, I could hand either of the Titans to a blind grandmother and she'd be MOA. Cloverleafs at 100 are doable by anyone that can hold still on a rest.
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Old 05-02-2021, 5:26 PM
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I have both. When it comes down to brass taxes, I'll leave home with the LR308.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2021, 5:49 PM
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basically i think the lmt mws, kac sr-25 or scar 20s are all as reliable as anything.
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Old 05-02-2021, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
basically i think the lmt mws, kac sr-25 or scar 20s are all as reliable as anything.
^This. They’re designed to be stupidly reliable. Having said that I’ve never had a problem with any M1A I’ve ever owned.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2021, 8:15 PM
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308 AR platform, except POF. I've got several of both.
I love the M14/M1a, but they're simply not as good for anywhere near the same cost, as a well planned 308 AR rifle.
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2021, 8:44 PM
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Another vote for the AR .308 or AR-10 platform unless you are into nostalgia. The only advantage of an M1A is not having any evil features, as long as it has a brake instead of a flash hider, so you can use normal capacity mags over 10 rounds.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:11 PM
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Either.

I have a POF 308 and an M1A Loaded and both have been reliable over the years.
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  #13  
Old 05-02-2021, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
How do the top tier M1A ( LRB or custom rifle build on LRB receiver) and AR-10 (LWRC , ETC) compare? If reliability is the MAIN or only consideration.
Top tier of either type should be similar reliability.
The difference will be in service life.
The M14 will need more maintenance and freshening up than the AR platform will over the same service lifetime.

Though not a factor for you, the AR platform is superior for use with optical sights while the M14 is better with iron sights.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2021, 3:37 AM
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The AR10 Rifle probably offers the most flexibility but a good M14 Rifle is really hard to beat .

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  #15  
Old 05-03-2021, 7:32 AM
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My PA10 weighs slightly more than my M14/M1A platform rifles. PA10 is more muzzle heavy due to it’s larger diameter barrel. M14/M1A rifles have a better trigger that is easier to “adjust” than the AR pattern rifles.
ARs are better for use with optics, M14/M1As have better sights. Free float barrels of the ARs makes them easier to hold zero and keep accurate. Covered bolt system of the AR keeps more stuff out of the action, but the DI gas system pumps more crud into the bolt.
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Old 05-03-2021, 8:19 AM
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I currently have the SR25 clone (LMT MWS) and had a Springfield M1A Bush/Scout. Listed below are my pros for each:

Springfield M1A Bush/Scout:
-- Reliable.
-- Doesn't need maglock in it's natural state.
-- Weight balances well in its natural state. Feels lighter than LMT.


LMT MWS:
-- Reliable.
-- Mounting optics and accessories is easier than M1A due to built-in rails.
-- User serviceable. I can swap out barrels and pretty much everything by myself without specialized tools.
-- Controls are the same as AR15; Muscle memory carries over to the LMT.
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2021, 9:16 AM
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M1As and all 20” carry handle ARs have virtually the same sights, the M1A just has like SEVEN more inches between the front and rear.
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Old 05-03-2021, 9:48 AM
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Naturally feature list was the draw for my M1A however trying to mount a scope on itWasn’t fun


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  #19  
Old 05-03-2021, 7:19 PM
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I've wanted to purchase one from you guys. Are you able to make it california compliant

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Originally Posted by Atlantic Firearms View Post
The AR10 Rifle probably offers the most flexibility but a good M14 Rifle is really hard to beat .

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Old 05-04-2021, 7:45 AM
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I've wanted to purchase one from you guys. Are you able to make it california compliant
They are with a 10 round magazine.

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  #21  
Old 05-04-2021, 8:24 AM
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The bula M14 comes with a flash hider. IDK if atlantic is able to switch those out to a brake.
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:54 AM
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I prefer an AR simply because you can make them much lighter than an M1A or M14. But, I build my own to make them light. I'm not aware of anyone making a complete lightweight .308 AR. DPMS was about the lightest with their G2 lower, but I wouldn't call DPMS top tier. They're out of business now, so it's a moot point anyway.

If you use a lightweight barrel, titanium carrier, and lightweight handguard/buttstock, you can get pretty light. If you go whole hog with lightweight components, you can easily get to 6 to 6.5 pounds.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2021, 9:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I prefer an AR simply because you can make them much lighter than an M1A or M14. But, I build my own to make them light. I'm not aware of anyone making a complete lightweight .308 AR. DPMS was about the lightest with their G2 lower, but I wouldn't call DPMS top tier. They're out of business now, so it's a moot point anyway.

If you use a lightweight barrel, titanium carrier, and lightweight handguard/buttstock, you can get pretty light. If you go whole hog with lightweight components, you can easily get to 6 to 6.5 pounds.
OP said his main reason was reliability, so I figure he wants ball peen hammer reliable.

I agree that the AR clones can be easily fashioned to a shooters liking, but it still depends on being assembled with quality parts to be battle ready/reliable.

Stoner gassed rifles are ammo sensitive. The gas pressure needs to be within a certain range to reliably cycle. Picky eaters become a huge pain in the balls. These days when people are having a hard time finding ANY ammo on the shelf at their LGS it really is advantageous to have a rifle that will chow down on a wider variety of available ammo.

I'm sure you have a recipe to tune for reliability as do I. As long as the thing goes bang and can hit where it's pointed I consider it a winner. Light or heavy config.
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Old 05-04-2021, 9:50 AM
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Reliable? Get the M1A
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Old 05-04-2021, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ir0nclash86 View Post
I've wanted to purchase one from you guys. Are you able to make it california compliant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Firearms View Post
The AR10 Rifle probably offers the most flexibility but a good M14 Rifle is really hard to beat .

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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
They are with a 10 round magazine.
The one pictured above is not legal in CA with any magazine as it is neither featureless or fixed magazine.
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:28 AM
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Ca legal M1A muzzle device for illustration.
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:46 AM
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So this is the .308 version of the mini vs AR thread?

Which one takes PMAGS?

What is your definition of reliability? Are you talking "goes bang" in adverse conditions? Cycles and functions with a wide range of ammo? Reliably makes tiny groups?

One thing I will note is that the M1A (along with all Garand style actions) have a large opening at the back of the bolt that allows for potential ingress of large debris directly into the trigger/hammer compared to an AR style action that is pretty well closed up when the dust cover is closed. So the reliability of the M1A would be suspect in adverse conditions.

If stocked in wood, humidity effects could impact M1A accuracy.
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Old 05-04-2021, 4:12 PM
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The ar10 will be cheaper and easier to make accurate if that's your goal. The m1a will probably be more rewarding once done (but more expensive if you pay to have it done or buy a built one).

My ar10 will outshoot most of my M1As, but I still shoot the M1As more.

Reliability- a usgi non accurized m1a will be more reliable. The tighter the match chamber etc., the more picky the rifles become. I have a heavy heavy barreled scout I built, it'll shoot one hole groups with the right ammo, but old brass can gag the thing.
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Old 05-04-2021, 4:13 PM
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Don’t have an AR-10 and really don’t see myself getting one. Do have a M1a scout, use a 2-7 power scout optic on it the combo works well together. My other SA 7.62x51 is a 16” SCAR 17 with a 1/4 Elcan, great combo. Both have been nothing but reliable. The rest of my 308s are bolt action with big power optics.

AR-10 and reliability are seldom used together, although they are getting better from what I understand.
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Old 05-04-2021, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I prefer an AR simply because you can make them much lighter than an M1A or M14. But, I build my own to make them light. I'm not aware of anyone making a complete lightweight .308 AR. DPMS was about the lightest with their G2 lower, but I wouldn't call DPMS top tier. They're out of business now, so it's a moot point anyway.

If you use a lightweight barrel, titanium carrier, and lightweight handguard/buttstock, you can get pretty light. If you go whole hog with lightweight components, you can easily get to 6 to 6.5 pounds.
The LaRue PredatAR in 7.62 is fairly light for a factory build. Mine (18" barrel) has been 100% reliable and extremely accurate.

The ergonomics on the AR10s just seem better/easier compared to the M1A platform. Maybe I'm just used to shooting AR15s so much that the AR10 is more familiar.

I also have an early Springfield M1A with all USGI parts (bolt, op rod, trigger, etc.). It is extremely reliable and decently accurate (not as accurate as the PredatAR). However, it most sits in the safe when I want to shoot semiauto 7.62, as I always grab the LaRue PredatAR. With respect to reliability, I would trust both.
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Old 05-04-2021, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drclark View Post
So this is the .308 version of the mini vs AR thread?

Which one takes PMAGS?

What is your definition of reliability? Are you talking "goes bang" in adverse conditions? Cycles and functions with a wide range of ammo? Reliably makes tiny groups?

One thing I will note is that the M1A (along with all Garand style actions) have a large opening at the back of the bolt that allows for potential ingress of large debris directly into the trigger/hammer compared to an AR style action that is pretty well closed up when the dust cover is closed. So the reliability of the M1A would be suspect in adverse conditions.

If stocked in wood, humidity effects could impact M1A accuracy.
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Old 05-04-2021, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumba View Post
The LaRue PredatAR in 7.62 is fairly light for a factory build. Mine (18" barrel) has been 100% reliable and extremely accurate.

The ergonomics on the AR10s just seem better/easier compared to the M1A platform. Maybe I'm just used to shooting AR15s so much that the AR10 is more familiar.

I also have an early Springfield M1A with all USGI parts (bolt, op rod, trigger, etc.). It is extremely reliable and decently accurate (not as accurate as the PredatAR). However, it most sits in the safe when I want to shoot semiauto 7.62, as I always grab the LaRue PredatAR. With respect to reliability, I would trust both.
Out of curiosity, have you weighed your complete build without magazine, weapon light, optic, or other doodads?
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Old 05-04-2021, 7:02 PM
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I fell in love with the M1A platform after handling one in the Corps. I purchased one shortly after getting out (Springfield Armory Super Match). I then spend YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars trying to make it half as consistent, accurate, and flexible as an AR10.

That was a huge waste of time & money, and a lost cause.

The M1A platform can lose its accuracy quickly from anything from a small bump to too much shooting (where do you think the phrase "*****ting the bed" came from? J/K). You will never be able to maintain or configure an M1A anywhere near as well as an AR10.

The AR10 platform has continued to evolve and grow. The M1A is a relic from the past.
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Old 05-04-2021, 7:46 PM
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M1A's (and Garands for that matter) are great if you already are, or willing to become proficient with iron sights and using a sling...Or else you are wasting your time and will only be frustrated.


Admittedly, I'm starting to enjoy shooting the 308 AR in NRA Tactical Class as much as I do the M1A now.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 05-04-2021 at 7:55 PM..
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:02 PM
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the semi auto 7.62 NATO world;

Accuracy = M1A
Durability/reliability = HK91
Accuracy + Durability + Reliability = FN FAL
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewN View Post
I have a bunch of M14 clones and they all work fine. Fulton's are far and away my favorite, but I have a SA M21 that's a lights out shooter. I also have a couple Fulton Titan's and they are fricking lasers. I could hand any gun guy either and they would be MOA or better, I could hand either of the Titans to a blind grandmother and she'd be MOA. Cloverleafs at 100 are doable by anyone that can hold still on a rest.
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Originally Posted by Sailormilan2 View Post
My PA10 weighs slightly more than my M14/M1A platform rifles. PA10 is more muzzle heavy due to it’s larger diameter barrel. M14/M1A rifles have a better trigger that is easier to “adjust” than the AR pattern rifles.
ARs are better for use with optics, M14/M1As have better sights. Free float barrels of the ARs makes them easier to hold zero and keep accurate. Covered bolt system of the AR keeps more stuff out of the action, but the DI gas system pumps more crud into the bolt.
Your PA10 being front heavy isn’t from it being an AR10 it’s from the barrel profile you bought.

The AR trigger is way easier to work with or even drop in a replacement.

Their sights are similar style, only difference is the sight radius and that can be negated if you have a long railed handguard on the AR and mount a front sight way out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
They are with a 10 round magazine.

Most I have seen pictures of are not CA legal as pictured...you’d need a muzzle brake and then you can run whatever size magazine you want.

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Old 05-04-2021, 8:13 PM
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Mopar Guy Mopar Guy is offline
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I think the M1A is a good solid rifle for a basic 308. I have a scout and sights fine with iron sights. I didn't consider an AR10 since kept with M4 platform for 5.56. For a rifle that can adapt to modifications and accessories, instead I went with SCAR 17 for 308. That rifle is completely different with a piston setup and more of an AK type receiver style bolt, yet very refined by FN in a modern rifle. It is lightweight for a 308 and lots of upgrades for a battle type rifle. Big issue is the price tag. The other is the HK MR762 which is more along the AR10, yet piston based with lots of expensive upgrade toys. Both are on the pricey side of Sears, not that an M1A is cheap.
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:15 PM
SharedShots SharedShots is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
Reliable? Get the M1A
^ This.

It usually comes down to birthdates. If you were born during the VN era often the preference is AR Platforms. Before that, M1As

The M14 was often used as a sniper rifle and hit reliably at long distance. It s a very good LD rifle within the capabilities of the 7.62 cartridge. You can load it one at a time without getting fingerists about it. If the gas system failed for any reason you can stomp on the operating handle and extract and eject the case and load it.

You can bounce the butt of the stock onto concrete and nothing breaks. It can be dropped, thrown and it will work. It doesn't need an ejection port cover and can be run completely dry, something most ARs dislike.

In the time it takes someone to pull the rear pin on an AR you can have the M1A completely disassembled. In the time it takes to put the bolt back into the carrier of an AR the M1A can be completely reassembled. Watch some training session footage and you'll see. We had guys doing it blindfolded in seconds. Try to take an AR apart in complete darkness and see if it gets back together whole.
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:18 PM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is offline
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All’s I know is the dude that shows up to the range with an M1A and a sling is usually a better shot than the dude with the glassed AR10.
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Old 05-04-2021, 8:25 PM
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crufflers crufflers is offline
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I like .308 anything... AR's are pretty easy to work on though. None of mine have milspec triggers. I'd like one of those LaRue 7.62's but PA-10's are fine.

I do have a couple of the 16" LaRue 5.56... one heavy barrel and one light.

Lots of AR's, one Mini-14.
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