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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#41
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You?re literally complaining about a law imposed on FFL?s only in CA and using that to cry about some extra charge. What you should be doing is telling the politicians you?ve had enough and demand that they provide a free way to PPT with a free background check and let the government handle that transaction and not burden FFL?s with having to do any of it. |
#42
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CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. |
#43
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FFL?s see people like you everyday. Until you ever decide to understand the business, you won?t get it. Believe me, there?s FFLs reading this and get it and rolling their eyes because we deal with people with your ideology often. We usually smile and nod and accept it for what it is. 😊 |
#45
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CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 03-23-2023 at 9:18 PM.. |
#46
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#47
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Don't like it? Go open a Subway, instead. Quote:
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My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions. Last edited by Gryff; 03-23-2023 at 11:09 PM.. |
#48
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Having a shop close down due to loss of revenue from fire arm transfer fees is like having a sandwich shop close because no one wants to up size to a large drink and instead ask for a water cup (a "service" that must be provided) . FFLs have other services and merch to offer. Not to confuse anything that has been said, but I'm not accusing your business of doing this. I'm referring to others that do, and when confronted refuse to admit error, or even attempt to justify the add ons. |
#49
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__________________
CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. |
#50
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#51
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Even a bank can charge you $35 for a bad check someone else gave you that you deposited |
#52
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It?s not a matter of going broke. It?s a government mandate on FFLs that make stores lose money. It?s not even the $10! The bigger loss is when performing a ppt, you?re having to deal with that when you have 3-4 other customers waiting to buy a gun or ammo, get impatient or don?t have time to wait and leave without buying anything. It?s not just about the $10. From a business standpoint it starts at $10 then escalates to what we pay employees theses days and then lost revenue to potential buyers that leave because they can?t wait for a PPT to finish. Why do you think you hear people here complain about having to wait at a store to do a ppt because others are actually buying guns or the store can?t do them ?because their safe is full? What I?m trying to explain is what, why and how this govt mandate is a problem in the industry. Some of you may understand what I?m conveying others are like a rock and ponding on the wall ?I want my ppt? and ? I want it now for nothing? |
#53
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1hr labor $xx.xx (not what you are paid but the cost of staff copy / print 9 sheets $x.xx File and retain the paperwork forever $x.xx 1% of the cost of the item co cover insurance (no getting around this)
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#54
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I normally try and stay out of these drama fights, but Taper's a good guy and shouldn't be the only one defending his position.
It's pretty ridiculous that we get $10 to do a PPT. Maybe FFLs before me were in cahoots with the State when that was enacted but that is certainly before my time. Yes I knew what I was in for when I got my FFL, and no I don't add any fees or service charges or whatever when I do a PPT. But its pretty CS that some of you out there give a FFL such grief over this. Besides the issue Taper brought up, a PPT takes twice as long to process as a sale or transfer, especially if the seller and buyer don't show up at the same time. I do view PPTs as a way to start a business relationship but I also don't have to rely on my FFL for my only income. What amazes me the most is the way some of you gripe about an extra $25 on what is probably at least a $500 transaction. I have a few customers who tip me because they know a PPT is a loss. Perhaps if more of you did that, fewer FFLs would be trying to find ways to avoid a loss. I'm not calling any of you communists, but Taper's point is correct. Government setting a fixed price for any privately provided commodity or service is communistic. In capitalism the market determines the price based on availability and demand. Go ahead and out the FFLs you don't like. But then don't 'itch when the number of FFLs in CA keeps declining. Personally, if I thought I was being overcharged I'd just walk out the door. |
#55
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Frankly I don't think the .gov should charge for transfers. No other right is "pay to play." We don't pay the .gov to speak freely, to vote, or gather. Why should the 2A be any different? That +/-$50 per transaction should go straight to the shop. I don't mind spending more money at a shop when I return to pick up. A few hundred rounds of ammo, more ammo boxes, cases, knives, etc even if I don't need anything, so I give more business to shops. You guys (FFLs) help us fight the good fight against komiefornia. If I may, I believe most people here on CG feel this way ^ What they might be trying to say is they were already going to spend more on ammo, etc at that shop, but they don't like being "told" to spend more. Yes they could go elsewhere, but we all know how us CGers are flame on |
#56
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I?d say 65% of PPTs spend nothing or never come back. It?s not even anything we?ve done. It?s just that we aren?t local to them. This isn?t complaining, it?s just the facts. According to bookkeeping, we spend $37 to accommodate a PPT. Even two boxes of ammo doesn?t put us in the black. |
#57
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#58
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I seriously doubt any FFL ever went out of business only because of PPTs. Pretty sure they go out of business because of competition or just not enough demand in their market. Having to charge extra fees to do PPTs to stay in business just sounds like a load of crap. I'm not buying it.
Personally, I don't think the state should require FFLs to conduct PPTs. I think its wrong that they put this on the FFLs. The state should run their own shops to do PPTs. And ALL CA taxpayers should pay for it not just gun owners. Making gun owners and/or FFLs pay for "gun safety" measures is a load of crap too.
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CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. |
#59
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Like I said in a prior post, when people are using you to meet half way from 40-50 miles away, it’s not advertising because they’re probably not coming back Last edited by taperxz; 03-24-2023 at 6:10 PM.. |
#60
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Like in any business, all the small stuff adds up to making a business successful. Every little bit actually matters |
#61
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CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 03-24-2023 at 7:03 PM.. |
#62
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So, you only have a problem with PPTs when both parties live 50 miles away? You haven't answered the question about advertising costs. What does it cost you in advertising to get one person into your store? BTW, I have been known to travel up to 200 miles to do a PPT and have ended up returning to some of those shops to make other purchases and/or referred other customers to those shops I thought were worth referring people to.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#63
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No matter how you try to spell it out, our analysis is we lose $37 per PPT on average. That?s time spent on all facets of the transfer of a firearm. Period. Just wages alone spent on a ppt from start to deliver makes it a loser. |
#64
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I?m telling you that PPTs cost FFLs money and there?s no other way to explain it. It costs on average $37 to complete a PPT. If you were in business would you want to perform a service that makes you lose money? A service that the government mandates and sets the fee? Go ahead and lie and tell us all how badly you would want to lose money Or next time you do a PPT just tip the FFL $37.00 since you don?t mind throwing your money away |
#65
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Oh god, no. Can you imagine the DMV running PPT's?!! There is zero reason transfers could not be done 100% online now days. Fill out the forms, E sign, Upload pics of the ID's, put it in the cart, pay with a credit card. At a MINIMUM all the paperwork could be done online ahead of time, your given a case number, seller walks in to a gun store, hand them the gun with the case number cover sheet you printed or is scanable off your phone, Maybe verify ID. FFL scans a barcode on the cover sheet and bingo the dros is started. Tell the seller to come in after 240 hours.
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#66
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Exactly, it's not something any of us want to do. If you don't like it sue CA to have the regulation removed but don't take it out on your customers.
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ATF Form 4473: If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. |
#67
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Maybe if customers are more aware of the issue, we can get support to change the law. A lawsuit would only cost more money for a dealer. Getting the law changed would be a better route. Until then, dealers will continue to do what dealers need to do and customers (if that?s what you want to call a PPT?er) will have to deal with it.
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#68
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If they are stupid enough to pull illegal crap...on top of failing to take advantage of the potential add-on sales that PPTs offer, then let them win the entrepreneurial Darwin Award. Encourages us to find one that doesn't go full retard.
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My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions. |
#69
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1hr labor $20 if hourly employee Staffing cost or salieried = overhead Copy / print 9 sheets of paper $ 37 cents Ink = overhead File and retain = Part of the PPT agreement Insurance = overhead Total PPT Cost (less DROS), call it $21 bucks if done by hourly worker Total PPT Cost (less DROS), call it $11 bucks if done by salaried worker
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* NRA Life Member since 1978 CRPA Life Member since 1978 Last edited by Tankhatch; 03-25-2023 at 11:04 PM.. |
#70
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Pretty clear you?ve never run a business. Now explain why a Large pizza is $36.00 Also explain why and how it’s OK for the State to charge $37.19 for DROS and do virtually nothing. You really should delete your post. It doesn’t enhance your knowledge of the subject Plus you can’t just classify stuff as overhead when performing a ppt when a BUYER has to leave the store because they can’t wait and a sale is lost. It’s called a list sale AKA a loss of revenue Last edited by taperxz; 03-26-2023 at 6:59 AM.. |
#71
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#72
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#73
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Example: If you are a union employee and the union takes your dues and uses it to fund liberal anti gun politicians. How do you feel about that? I, personally would consider that a double loss. One, they took my money and two, it?s also working against me. If people come into my store to do a ppt, obviously I already advertised my existence or they wouldn?t have found my store. Now that I?ve paid to advertise, and PPT?ers come in and to be fair here, don?t spend a penny more and live far enough away to not need to come back, I guess the loss on a ppt that I take should be added to lost revenue to my advertising budget. Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out |
#74
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Not to mention the insurance costs for storing firearms for 10 plus days. I really wonder if any of these complainers would work for $10.00 per PPT. Sorta doubt it.
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American soldier by choice. Made in America by the Grace of God. So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State. Judge Roger T. Benitez LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019 |
#75
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#76
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It doesn?t matter. I advertise to get people into the store to buy stuff. Not cost $37 ever. If they already know I exist what?s the point of calculating cost per person if a PPT makes that figure a larger loss?
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#77
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Question… recently introduced to a new gun shop while doing a PPT.
The transfer took approximately 20 minutes. When I returned 10 days later to pick up the firearm I also bought a Hornady lock box, Hoppes #9 and some CLP. Used the same shop for a second PPT. 20 minutes or so again. 10 days later I bought another lock box. Two weeks later I returned to this store (introduced to me through the first PPT) and I bought a Glock 26 and 1,000 rounds of 9mm. I will return to this store for future needs and refer others because of the exceptional service I received on my first visit. Lock box and cleaning supplies I could have and normally would have bought online. Same for the ammo. Did this store lose money on me? |
#78
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The $37 is only $27 since you get to keep $10 of the DROS. Now, for that $27, you get 3 people to walk in (The seller once and the buyer twice) and one WILL RETURN even if he/she is 50 miles or more away. So, in reality, you are paying $9 per walk in. Is that more or less than the other forms of advertising you do?
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#79
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Where's KAMASA when we need him...?
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American soldier by choice. Made in America by the Grace of God. So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State. Judge Roger T. Benitez LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019 |
#80
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I don?t care if 100 people walk into the store, if they don?t spend enough money to pay the bills, what?s the point? What other retailer in the history of retail stores would agree with you Seriously, how does any government mandate that fixes prices for a retailer even make sense? This is all about butt hurt gun owners pissed off because they want to demand exceptional service from a retailer who?s gonna lose money. If I?m wrong, then why do people complain continuously about treatment from FFLs when doing PPTs? Why are you trying to convince people in an industry that they?re wrong and that PPTs are so great and enhancing for their business when the books show the opposite? If PPTs were so great, I?d be on my ads howling at the moon about our PPT service! ? come into our store today! We?re doing a weekend sale on PPT?s! 20% off? |
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