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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 06-09-2021, 8:44 PM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Default Water, to live

This is about staying alive.

Water for washing or cooking is extra.

https://www.nutrientsreview.com/wate...excretion.html

'Drink one liter per day' is a good, though scant, rule of thumb; here's why:

At a minimum, you should pee out 600 ml per day (25 ml per hour). Less than that and an adult would be very sick indeed.
(Could be 500, or 400 ml/24 hours, but low numbers are indicative of Real Problems.)
Quote:
A healthy adult normally excretes 800-2,000 mL of urine per day [34]. Excretion of less than 800 mL per day is called oliguria and more than 3 liters per day in adults or 2 liters in children is called polyuria.
Aside from sweat, a person will lose 450-1900 ml per day just evaporating through the skin.
Quote:
This diffusion gradient has a flux of 0.5-1.0 mg/cm2/h, which can lead to a total loss of 500 mL of water from the skin per day. This is higher than the volume of water lost daily through sweat (at room temperature of up to 29°C)
Figure out your skin surface area here: https://www.calculator.net/body-surf...ght=&x=67&y=15

Our example friend, X, in the calories thread, 180 lb and 5'10", has about 2 meters square of surface area or 20,000 cm2; 1000 cm2 would emit about 1 g or 1 ml of water per hour, and X has 20 of those 1000 cm2 increments.

(For folks who want to complain 1 ml of water is not exactly 1 g, except under certain conditions, here is a link to a table that gives more info on the density of water in other-than-scientifically-ideal conditions.)
One may lose 100-200 ml in stool, despite the efficiency of the large intestine.

One may lose 250-350 ml through exhalation, but that is usually balanced by water created from metabolizing food.

600 + 450+ 100 = 1150 ml lost, which needs to be replaced. 2 liters - that old 'eight eight-ounce glasses of water per day' nostrum - is a better planning goal.

Some of that intake can be in food; for example, those cooked beans:
Quote:
On cooking for their respective optimal times, all varieties absorbed nearly 1.5 times their weight of water and attained a moisture content of about 65% (wet basis).

Last edited by Librarian; 06-10-2021 at 2:35 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2021, 7:18 AM
Mr. Beretta Mr. Beretta is offline
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Librarian

Excellent post and link!

Thank you!
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Old 06-10-2021, 6:50 PM
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Spoke with the Mother in law's boyfriend, and he wants to move to Washington for water, as he thinks global warming/Climate Change will have people who can afford it, fleeing the South...
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Old 06-10-2021, 8:54 PM
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Does beer count?
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2021, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojaveman View Post
Does beer count?
Sort of; often it (and other alcoholic drinks) have a net diuretic effect - that is, you eventually run a little more out than you pour in.

Quote:
Alcohol is a diuretic. It causes your body to remove fluids from your blood through your renal system, which includes the kidneys, ureters, and bladder, at a much quicker rate than other liquids.

...

Alcohol is converted in the liver and begins acting as a diuretic

When its processed by enzymes in the liver, alcohol is converted into a large amount of acetaldehyde. This common substance can become toxic in high doses. In order to break this substance down and remove it from the body, your liver does most of the work of turning it into acetate.

Alcohol also reduces how much vasopressin your body makes. Vasopressin is an antidiuretic hormone. It causes the body to hold onto water, which typically limits how much urine your kidneys make.

The action of suppressing this hormone exacerbates the diuretic effect and leads to dehydration.

Alcohol’s components are flushed from the body

Acetate and other waste products are then removed from the body as carbon dioxide and water, primarily through lungs. Although the kidneys remove waste products, most of the water loss is due to the effect of vasopressin.

Water is flushed out much faster than alcohol is processed.

https://www.healthline.com/health/do...-dehydrate-you
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Sort of; often it (and other alcoholic drinks) have a net diuretic effect - that is, you eventually run a little more out than you pour in.




https://www.healthline.com/health/do...-dehydrate-you
Which is why I'll drink more water during the night when I get up to pee if I've been drinking. Keeps me hydrated.
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Old 06-11-2021, 4:36 PM
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good information. Thank you.
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Old 06-11-2021, 8:10 PM
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I drink over a gallon a day, and I really notice it if I don't. If I'm stressed or exerting myself water is something that my body needs & doesn't perform well without. I'm sure I could make it a day or a couple days with less, but not iver an extended time.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:02 PM
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Water is by far, my favorite survival supply. Something so simple, yet so critical. When searching for a missing person in the mountains, we always go through the basics such as weather, comms, plans, medical plan, maps, hazards and making sure our radios work, along with GPS. Yet water is by far one of the most important items in my pack. Always overload on it. Probably the next most important is proper clothing. If I have time, will fill the water bladder with ice in summer. Winter is also important and when snow shoeing almost need same level of water as with in 100 degree heat of summer. The essential survival life blood in the back country. Many different set ups depending on weather, yet water is always consistent unless in the desert, I am sure those guys may have a team member designated as a water tanker (lol). Especially with K-9's.

Rules of 3

You can survive three minutes without breathable air (unconsciousness) generally with protection, or in icy water. You can survive three hours in a harsh environment (extreme heat or cold). You can survive three days without drinkable water (could be faster in dry hot climates). Water is usually my biggest concern since clothing is common sense, but you can miscalculate water when you are in a hurry.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:33 PM
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Thanks for the specifics, where I live I make my own drinking water so kinda track consumption and, on average, it's between 64 and 100 fluid ounces per day.

One thing I noticed, trying different ideas to quell digestive/gall bladder issues, was cutting out coffee entirely and, besides it apparently working on those issues, the diuretic effect of the caffeine is gone and fluid retention is better and the water goes 'farther'. I switched to one cup of tea a day as an interim measure and will experiment with ceasing that as well. I don't count waters and broths and juices found in canned foods but do use those and they can be a significant fluid source which is part of why I keep such stocks around for emergency use.

I remember an old Star Trek line from an alien about humans being ugly bags of mostly water and found over the decades preserving a balance in health-related practices, including fluids, is key to long healthy life. Kinda sucks for a Russian to keep the vodka at bay but longevity is opportunity and I'm OK with such tradeoffs.

Oh, I found water usage to decrease markedly moving from the dry, hot desert of CA to the wet of Oregon, ironically a place where water is far more abundant and it's simply lovely to be typing on a June evening with the rain quietly falling outside the window. Life is good.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:25 PM
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Here is another old trick and one of the many uses water in an emergency situation.

If you're lost and / or just need to wake up in the middle of the night to do an activity that you might sleep through like feed the fire or very early in the morning to get moving just drink lots of water in the late evening and just before you go to bed. More than likely you'll have to go to the bathroom sometime during the night and that should bring you out of your sound sleeping.

No electricity or batteries required, but another good reason to have extra water to spare.
The old Indian/Native American alarm clock.
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Old 06-13-2021, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Spoke with the Mother in law's boyfriend, and he wants to move to Washington for water, as he thinks global warming/Climate Change will have people who can afford it, fleeing the South...
In my preps to move to NJ, I struggled to find any silver linings involved with leaving CA for another blue state.
The average rainfall of 44 inches in my new area was one of them.
The mismanagement of water in CA, especially So Cal, is criminal, and the state is doomed as unchecked growth is met by a total lack of response other than edicts to "use less" and "don't flush."
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sealocan View Post
.....The old Indian/Native American alarm clock.
Thanks, good suggestion. In my case, it's usually to check on/feed the cat or shut the front door after she's in from her wanderings. Thank goodness where I live one can, so far, leave the doors unlocked or open without issue even at night. Still, the water alarm clock kicks the old CA tape in and the door gets shut and locked. I also keep a bottle of water by the bed to refill the alarm.

I wouldn't recommend it to someone with BPH or other prostate issues though, that's a pisser.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user120312 View Post

Oh, I found water usage to decrease markedly moving from the dry, hot desert of CA to the wet of Oregon, ironically a place where water is far more abundant and it's simply lovely to be typing on a June evening with the rain quietly falling outside the window. Life is good.
That was kind of nice, though it makes my back yard muddy.

But almost all of Oregon is also in a drought - https://www.plantmaps.com/interactiv...onitor-map.php https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/En...574607711.html, https://www.cnrfc.noaa.gov/monthly_precip.php

Here are the NWS definitions for the levels - https://www.weather.gov/riw/drought_index. That page is Wyoming, but the definitions are common.

Last edited by Librarian; 06-13-2021 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:58 PM
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I'm fortunate, the soils are deep sands and gravels at the beach it's like a gravel pit, so no mud and everything drains into the creek and it's pretty easy to pull water out of the creek and treat it since the pump house is just a couple feet from it, if needed.

Today the sun is out and poof it's like we didn't get an inch of rain over the last two days. Not a spot of water to be found.

The core where apparently most of the CG'ers live experiences a markedly different Oregon from those of us at the coast, we have, besides myself, one who lives down in the Gold Beach/Port Orford area, though the heat and dry stays pretty solid until maybe ten to fifteen minutes from the coast.

I'd raced at Jackson County and PIR in past decades so remembered the scorching hot tracks and bringing big igloos of water and punch to keep hydrated. When making the move I figured I'd deal with the gray and wet and TBH it's not near as bad as people make it out to be, though like you mentioned regarding the state as a whole the coast is in a drought too.

We've had a bit over 22" of rain locally in 2021 and April and May were horrible, we've had more rain so far in June than both of those months combined. Normal for a whole 12 month period is 70-80".

I'd become a water miser in CA since the property was on a few hundred feet of sand in an ancient riverbed and water would literally poof before my very eyes. I was on drip irrigation back in the 80's when many neighbors were still flood irrigating their grapes, stone fruit and almonds. That's all changed now though, farmers are a lot more water conscious.

It'll get real interesting when the state puts water meters on private wells, we heard that was coming, then the farmers can pay for the fuel or electricity to pump the water and pay for the water too; that has to be in the cards. Glad to be out of that game.
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