Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-09-2021, 2:21 PM
Peloncito Peloncito is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 29
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default LEOSA 50 state endorsement for retired CDCR

I’m not a LEO, but was recently talking to a friend who is a retired parole officer with CDCR. When he retired he was given his standard retirement identification with a CCW endorsement. They didn’t talk to him about the LEOSA qualification requirements. The only person I know that has the 50 state endorsement is a retired deputy sheriff and the SO handles his annual qualification. Anybody out there have any experience with CDCR and this issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-09-2021, 4:30 PM
brad96cdc brad96cdc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 240
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

CDCR makes retirees qualify annually
That’s it
Hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-09-2021, 4:36 PM
bkz81 bkz81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 335
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Hawaii doesn’t accept any off duty weapon or ccw from anywhere without approval from a police chief. I’ve heard the chiefs rarely if ever approve anyone too.
__________________
Originally Posted by American Samurai
Look on the bright side OP; you weren't cuckolded. She broke it off before that.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2021, 5:31 AM
dogrunner dogrunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: E/Central Fl
Posts: 238
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz81 View Post
Hawaii doesn’t accept any off duty weapon or ccw from anywhere without approval from a police chief. I’ve heard the chiefs rarely if ever approve anyone too.
If you'd bother to read LEOSA, you'd realize that the law does NOT factor in police chief's opinions.

READ the law!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2021, 6:40 AM
bkz81 bkz81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 335
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogrunner View Post
If you'd bother to read LEOSA, you'd realize that the law does NOT factor in police chief's opinions.

READ the law!
Good luck to you then. Hawaii doesn’t care about the law.
__________________
Originally Posted by American Samurai
Look on the bright side OP; you weren't cuckolded. She broke it off before that.

Last edited by bkz81; 06-10-2021 at 6:47 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2021, 9:31 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 7,569
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogrunner View Post
If you'd bother to read LEOSA, you'd realize that the law does NOT factor in police chief's opinions.

READ the law!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz81 View Post
Good luck to you then. Hawaii doesn’t care about the law.
Gents,

Hawaii is a waiting "Test-Bed" for the LEOSA. The current Hawaii statutes and practices do not appear to comply with the LEOSA, but so far there has been no test case to figure out who is the winner.

It's not a complete "Slam-Dunk" in favor of the LEOSA. The LEOSA provides a blanket exemption from state laws governing the "carrying" of a concealed firearm. It does not clearly provide a corresponding exemption from laws prohibiting the "possession" of a firearm, or from state laws requiring the "registration" of firearms.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:44 AM
003 003 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,373
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

http://ag.hawaii.gov/cjd/law-enforcement-index-page/

Click on the above link. Hawaii's rules as related to LEOSA and active and retired cops.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-10-2021, 12:17 PM
9Cal_OC's Avatar
9Cal_OC 9Cal_OC is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: OC
Posts: 3,135
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
http://ag.hawaii.gov/cjd/law-enforcement-index-page/

Click on the above link. Hawaii's rules as related to LEOSA and active and retired cops.
What...

Quote:
It is important to note that 18 USC §926B does not supercede Hawaii’s firearms laws.
And
Quote:
II. If you are not on official duty with your governmental law enforcement agency and you are carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926B, you are not considered a “law enforcement officer” in the State of Hawaii. The Hawaii Revised Statutes will be applied to you as if you were a “civilian” with no law enforcement powers.
__________________
Freedom isn't free...

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-10-2021, 1:29 PM
wazafuzz's Avatar
wazafuzz wazafuzz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Big Valley
Posts: 145
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
What...



And
I lived in Hawaii for 12 years, still have family there and visit frequently.
Because of some issues with an ex-brother in law, I always bring my XD S.
The quote about being considered a "civilian" is true anywhere you go outside the state of California. I talked to a couple of friends that are HPD and they said that the department has no problem with officers/retired officers who carry. Where the rub comes in like RickD said is that LEOSA is vague~it leaves open too many things. In Hawaii a handgun magazine that holds more than 10 rounds is a felony if it's inserted in the gun. Also LEOSA says nothing about registration. I still have a couple guns from when I lived there that are technically "registered" to me so I can carry those. But my XD S was bought here, so I made an appt and made the trip down to HPD headquarters and registered it. You only have to do that once per gun, so I carry the same gun everytime I visit.
One thing to remember though, if you ever have to actually use your weapon, expect to be arrested no matter what the circumstances. This could impact your future right to carry depending on your department.
https://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/

Last edited by wazafuzz; 06-10-2021 at 1:30 PM.. Reason: add web page.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-10-2021, 1:52 PM
Rustlin’ Jack Rustlin’ Jack is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

RickD points out something that is very important but rarely discussed regarding the limitations of LEOSA. The only document I have found that spells it out is a 2006 memorandum from the Department of Justice, Bureau of Federal Prisons to staff regarding LEOSA. An excerpt reads:


“Additionally, LEOSA exempts qualified current and retired law enforcement officers from State and local laws that prohibit “carrying” concealed firearms. LEOSA’s language does not include exemptions from State and local laws for any other firearms- related activities, for example, purchasing, registering, licensing, or the permissible use of firearms. It is, therefore, incumbent upon off-duty staff to be aware of the laws, ordinances, regulations, etc., within their jurisdiction that may impact any aspect of their ability to obtain, carry, or use a personal firearm under LEOSA.“
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-10-2021, 2:38 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 7,569
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
I lived in Hawaii for 12 years, still have family there and visit frequently.
Because of some issues with an ex-brother in law, I always bring my XD S.
The quote about being considered a "civilian" is true anywhere you go outside the state of California. I talked to a couple of friends that are HPD and they said that the department has no problem with officers/retired officers who carry. Where the rub comes in like RickD said is that LEOSA is vague~it leaves open too many things. In Hawaii a handgun magazine that holds more than 10 rounds is a felony if it's inserted in the gun. Also LEOSA says nothing about registration. I still have a couple guns from when I lived there that are technically "registered" to me so I can carry those. But my XD S was bought here, so I made an appt and made the trip down to HPD headquarters and registered it. You only have to do that once per gun, so I carry the same gun everytime I visit.
One thing to remember though, if you ever have to actually use your weapon, expect to be arrested no matter what the circumstances. This could impact your future right to carry depending on your department.
https://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/
One of the key things to remember here is that LEOSA defines who is a "Law Enforcement Officer" for the purposes of the LEOSA. Under the LEOSA's definition, and out-of-state LEO in Hawaii is still a "Law Enforcement Officer." But the state of Hawaii gets to define it's own terms for the purposes of its state law. But Hawaii doesn't get to define it for the purposes of LEOSA.

All of this is why Hawaii is ripe for a test case, but so far no one has volunteered to be the test defendant.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-10-2021, 3:20 PM
Gun Kraft's Avatar
Gun Kraft Gun Kraft is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 424
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Those guidelines could be written better. I think what it's trying to say is LEOSA's "qualified LE" are not considered LE with respect to Hawaii's state codes. So if Hawaii LE can carry concealed in certain places but Joe Public can not, qualified LE from out of state can not carry concealed there either.

However part of the problem is Hawaii has a more limited definition of "qualified LE" than LEOSA, according to that guidance.
__________________
SF Bay Area firearm training
www.gunkraft.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-10-2021, 4:20 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 7,569
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
Those guidelines could be written better. I think what it's trying to say is LEOSA's "qualified LE" are not considered LE with respect to Hawaii's state codes. So if Hawaii LE can carry concealed in certain places but Joe Public can not, qualified LE from out of state can not carry concealed there either.

However part of the problem is Hawaii has a more limited definition of "qualified LE" than LEOSA, according to that guidance.
That's not quite the Hawaii problem with LEOSA. The LEOSA clearly supercedes state laws with regard to carry. So if Hawaii law tried to forbid a "Qualified LEO or Retired LEO" from carrying, that officer would be exempt from that state law.

The LEOSA problem is that if Hawaii made a law that such an officer could not possess a firearm, then the LEOSA would not clearly exempt the officer from the law against possession.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-11-2021, 6:43 AM
Gun Kraft's Avatar
Gun Kraft Gun Kraft is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 424
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
That's not quite the Hawaii problem with LEOSA. The LEOSA clearly supercedes state laws with regard to carry. So if Hawaii law tried to forbid a "Qualified LEO or Retired LEO" from carrying, that officer would be exempt from that state law.
I think it's part of the problem, much like how firearm owners whose flight gets diverted to New Jersey can be arrested for having a gun in New Jersey w/o a New Jersey license (state law) even though federal law says it's legal if you're a traveler passing through that state and ownership of that firearm is legal in the state you left and the one you're going to. Clearly federal law trumps state law but passengers still get arrested for this and while every case I know eventually gets the charges dropped, the poor victims still spend time in jail, have their schedules disrupted and firearms confiscated. Unfortunately the Supreme Court refused to hear a case regarding this so I expect NJ will continue this practice. (https://www.nj.com/news/2011/01/supr...ider_whet.html)

Non-employed LE (unpaid volunteer Reserves) for example can carry under LEOSA but don't meet Hawaii's definition of "qualified LE". While I'm sure any Reserve arrested for carrying concealed but otherwise meeting Hawaii's LEOSA requirements would ultimately be found innocent, like you said who wants to be the test case?
__________________
SF Bay Area firearm training
www.gunkraft.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-11-2021, 8:31 AM
Endless Endless is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States Of America
Posts: 1,900
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz81 View Post
Good luck to you then. Hawaii doesn’t care about the law.
And nobody cares about another crappy liberal state or there laws. I lived there for 6 years and I didn’t follow Hawaii state laws in regards to any firearms and I can say that publicly because my free state ARs and high cap mags stayed on base during my tour there with the CO and district Admirals authority. HPD and Hawaii Sheriff have no jurisdiction on federal military land or their armories.

We didn’t give a **** about Hawaii state gun laws and it didn’t apply to us in any way shape or form.

I conceal carried while I was there and I was also a qualified Federal Boarding Officer.

Last edited by Endless; 06-11-2021 at 8:37 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:18 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy

Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Military Boots 5.11 Tactical