Appleseed Basics

[pennys dad]

Originally Posted by rookie4life

Hi all. Quick question for you. I had originally planned to attend AP this weekend in Azusa. Somethings have come up (honey-do's) so now I can only attend the Sunday class. Would you recommend that I hold off and attend the next event on both days or just go ahead with Sunday only?

This is my first AP and I have very little experience with rifles.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Saturday is the best day for instruction, Sunday is review of Sunday.

[FastFinger]

Each day is a "stand alone" event, so yes, you can attend just Saturday or just Sunday.

However Saturday focuses a bit more on instructions, and skills do build on skills, so if possible attend both.

At my weekend a young kid who showed up just on Sunday got his Rifleman patch having never attended a previous session.

[Dark Sky Solutions]

Can't wait for the Sep Escondido event!!!!!!!!

[psubond]

do instructors typically have loaner slings or even better do they sell them? i'm thinking about going to an event this weekend and i have found slings online but i don't think they'll get here before sat. i'm going to try to call around and find a brick and mortar store nearby that carries them but i don't know if they will have them.

also, what is minimum enrollment? the local event this weekend is showing 15 tickets remaining and i'm a little worried i'll be the only one there. gonna bug some co workers and see if i can get anyone to come along.

[as_rocketman]

Instructors may have slings for sale, but don't count on it. We get that request an awful lot. I can't keep up with the demand. Your best chance to find one quickly is in a quality surplus store.

For your second question, I have good news: There is no minimum enrollment. We don't cancel shoots unless there's some safety issue (like a wildfire shutting down a range). 50 students, 2 students, I don't care, we'll be there for anyone who listens, rain or shine. Feel free to invite a friend or two while you're at it.

[ERdept]

May I use a scoped rifle?

My 10/22 has no iron sights.

[as_rocketman]

Absolutely. Same skill set applies.

[mag360]

I want to go to the sacramento one this saturday! think I can gather the front sling mount, sling, another 10/22 magazine, by saturday? i have the week off.

[SilentPea]

Originally Posted by mag360

I want to go to the sacramento one this saturday! think I can gather the front sling mount, sling, another 10/22 magazine, by saturday? i have the week off.

As long as you are capable of reading instructions and drilling a straight hole, you're going to be fine. Not sure if any of the local stores (Sac Black Rifle, Elk Grove Gun Room, River City Gun Exchange, etc) has the GI web type slings in stock, but most of them should have the sling studs, swivels and spare magazines.

[ERdept]

Originally Posted by as_rocketman

Absolutely. Same skill set applies.

OK, i will try very hard to attend then one I saw in the Turners outdoorsman flyer.

I have a leather from Turner, I know not ideal from what Ive read, but will use it cause that's what I got.

[mag360]

argh, called a couple places.. don't feel like going on a goose chase to get this stuff by saturday. Maybe I'll see you guys later in the year, looks like Dec. in the earliest.

[GuillermoAntonio]

this needs a.sticky.

[360FISH]

Turner's had their sale this last weekend and I ordered two Marlin 795's for my boys (ages 10 & 13). They've never fired a shot (except electronically) and I'm curious to know if I should throw them into an Appleseed (Sunday only because of sports) as green apples with new guns or would it be better to get them more one on one training before attemping a mass shoot?

I'm in the Simi Valley area and the Carona shoot is coming up fast...

Thanks,

Alan

[Eljay]

I guess the big question is how confident they won't do something irresponsible? I'd take them out one at a time first... just in case... but then again I don't know your kids.

[sevensix2x51]

Originally Posted by 360FISH

Turner's had their sale this last weekend and I ordered two Marlin 795's for my boys (ages 10 & 13). They've never fired a shot (except electronically) and I'm curious to know if I should throw them into an Appleseed (Sunday only because of sports) as green apples with new guns or would it be better to get them more one on one training before attemping a mass shoot?

I'm in the Simi Valley area and the Carona shoot is coming up fast...

Thanks,

Alan

As an objective viewpoint in an internet text box, the boys need to go both days. All the basics are laid out on Saturday, and that is when the bulk of the learning takes place. A sunday-only shoot would throw them into a full day of trying to shoot for score, and playing catch-up to learn the skills that were pounded into everyone's heads for ten hours the day before.

A day at the range with Dad would iron out the reliability factor for the rifles, and give the boys a tour of the safe operation and proper manipulation of the rifles. As far as the safety of a first shoot with multiple people, only you as a father know the answer to that. If the boys are responsible and respectful of the incredible power of a firearm(yes, even a .22,) then they would probably be okay at the appleseed. They would get their first exposure to the shooting discipline from traditional teachers that instruct in the proper (imho) school of marksmanship.

The history lesson is invaluable as well, and is, in my opinion, the best part of the whole program!

Good luck in your decision, and thanks for giving the next generation the means to continue the American tradition of marksmanship!

[BlueDog333]

How important are elbow pads? I already have a great shooting mat I bought on sale from Midway for $20. It's this one that usually that sells for $50.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=169107

In all the appleseed after action report pictures I've found only one person is wearing elbow pads. Check the 4th reply here and it's the second to last pic.

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.p...prev_next=next

The two people to his left use the same shooting mat I have. It's already got good non slip padding for elbows and knees. Will the large tarps like the ones everybody has their shooting mats on be provided for shooters, or should we bring our own? I'm buying and borrowing gear right now so I can attend a meet in a few weeks.

If the soil's fine and gets blown around easily we'll want to bring a large tarp to lay out under all our shooting mats to help cut down on dirty equipiment.

[Eljay]

re: Sunday - I didn't catch that - you're right, doing Sunday first would be frustrating.

re: elbow pads. I brought some and didn't use them. We didn't have tarps here, that might be a regional thing. I have that same Midway pad, and it's fine for an hour or two on the line, but I actually think for an Appleseed when you're going to be there all day you're better off with a nice thick chunk of carpet. They have 6x4ish chunks of carpet rolled up in a corner near the rest of the carpet stuff at Home Depot for cheap - I think it was a few bucks. Anyway, I took one to an Appleseed Sunday even though I have the midway pad and I think it worked out well.

[Sheepdog1968]

I've been to three of them (I like to go once a year). It is IMO the best value training class out there. The history lesson is pretty fun too. If there is one near you (and they are all over the country), go. You won't be disappointed.

[360FISH]

Thanks for the feedback all.

I like the idea of going with something more personal for the boy's first experience. Get them some quality time with a focused saftey lesson and shoot. Then practice and wait for football season to end so they can attend a full Appleseed.

Enjoy!

Alan

[Lead Waster]

This may seem like an odd question, but can you shoot/learn with an air rifle? Some of the new PCP (Pre Charged Pneumatics) are very very accurate and have 10 round pellet magazines. If charged with a scuba tank, there is very little downtime after the air pressure drops.

I actually have a Marlin 795 that I'd like to try and I currently don't have an air rifle, but I was wondering if that would be feasable for younger kids and such. Plus a silent PCP air rifle can be practiced with in your backyard (assuming local bylaws allow it) without disturbing neighbours or scaring the bejeebers out of people.

Also, what's the youngest age that is REASONABLE. I have 4 year olds, and I'm not thinking of right now, but in the future I'd like them to do this, the question is when is a probable good age (with parental oversight on maturity level of course!)

[as_rocketman]

Eh, missed these questions 'cuz they were in the Sticky... sorry.

There's no real problem with an air rifle but I'd want the Shoot Boss to take a look at it first. They behave differently with respect to our safety procedures -- when are they "loaded," how do you clear them, etc. -- which could cause interruptions in the class. It really has nothing to do with how accurate they are or how quickly they can be fired.

There are so many good, cheap .22's around, and the skills translate 100%, that I'd recommend using one of them instead even for a younger child.

Another option for "practice in your backyard" is airsoft. I've had a few students with no range access come to an Appleseed, practice for months with airsoft, and then return and easily score Rifleman.

We don't have a set guideline for minimum age, so it depends on the kid. I've seen incredibly squared away six year olds, and I've seen teenagers who needed a lot more focus. The agreement I have with my wife is nine years old. You may feel similarly.

When bringing a child, the bigger concern is whether they'll keep interested over the whole day or the whole weekend, how well they can handle the exercise, follow instructions, etc. Some will lose interest after a few hours, others won't. I rarely have trouble with children 12 or older, but I've never had a child of any age that we had to actually keep off the line.

[Lead Waster]

Ah here's another question for you. When I shoot USPSA matches, a lot of guys have wagons and carts to haul all their stuff. Seems convenient, and for USPSA I'm probably going to get one too (at least a wagon)...I mean really, if you can roll your range bag with it's 300 rounds plus lunch, water and maybe a chair...why wouldn't you?

Would a wagon or cart get in the way at an Appleseed? I'm going to the Castro Valley (Chabot) shoot in October and haven't been to that range so I don't know if I bring a wagon, will it be a roadblock?

[PurplePeople]

Originally Posted by Lead Waster

Ah here's another question for you. When I shoot USPSA matches, a lot of guys have wagons and carts to haul all their stuff. Seems convenient, and for USPSA I'm probably going to get one too (at least a wagon)...I mean really, if you can roll your range bag with it's 300 rounds plus lunch, water and maybe a chair...why wouldn't you?

Would a wagon or cart get in the way at an Appleseed? I'm going to the Castro Valley (Chabot) shoot in October and haven't been to that range so I don't know if I bring a wagon, will it be a roadblock?

A cart wouldn't be a problem, but may not be necessary - it's only 30-40 yards from the parking area to the firing line at Chabot.

[Mesa Tactical]

We will be bringing the whole crew out to Raahauge's in November.

One of our 10/22s has a red dot scope. Would that be an appropriate scope for the clinic? I can understand if it isn't.

We will be at Burro Canyon early next month zeroing lots of .22 rifles at 25 yards.

[PurplePeople]

Originally Posted by Mesa Tactical

One of our 10/22s has a red dot scope. Would that be an appropriate scope for the clinic? I can understand if it isn't.

It depends on the scope and the size of the dot in MOA. Since you're trying to hit a 4MOA standard in prone, if the dot plus any visual 'bloom' around it is more than that, you're going to have a problem.

Easy test: Hang a 4MOA square at your target line (1" @ 25 yds, 4" @ 100 yds, etc.). Turn the dot down as far as you can and still be certain of seeing it given your lighting conditions. Does the dot totally obscure the square? If so, you might want to consider a different sighting system. If not, you should be GTG.

[as_rocketman]

I used to have a red dot on my AR-15. I just learned to use "6 o'clock hold" with the dot, just like iron sights. Takes a little getting used to but it works fine.

If you don't want to change it, don't. Red dots aren't ideal but they won't ruin your weekend.

[Lead Waster]

OK, so I swapped my techsights (Saturday) for a scope (Sunday). Maybe not the smartest move. I was grouping quite well with the tech sights, but honestly, I could barely even see the targets (old eyes). Scope ... First time I ever shot with a scope! It was interesting, but the eye relief was bugging me. I just bought and slapped it on the night before so I think it was too close to my face, I couldn't turkey-neck, I had to reverse turkey-neck or just shoot with the big round shadow.

I'll be ready next time though!

Oh, one thing ... make sure your rifle is reliable. Maybe splurge for 500 rounds of good ammo. A single jam will ruin your "AQT" score and then you gotta try it again. My rifle was a bit gummy with fed bulk and I jammed a lot. A bit disappointed in my scores and more frustrating on Sunday with the scope and the dirty gun. But I don't blame the equipment so much as I blame myself for not preparing it right! But that's part of the learning process. So folks, hit the range and zero in your stuff and ensure reliability before you go!

Super fun though, I will definitely go again to refresh and try for that patch again! Thanks to the instuctors!

[llamatrnr]

Mods: please move if inappropriate for this forum...

I have a certificate for an Appleseed event that I'm not going to be able to use, and am willing to sell it for $62

Please pm only, thanks.

[Melissa]

One important thing I thought I'd tack on here is that at many locations, you're completely out in the open and shooting down in the dirt (which turns to mud in the rainy season). Although most of us are in California, this time of year it gets REALLY cold-- and wet-- so here's a little advice I learned from (not quite pleasant) experience, and I'd like to pass on.

SHOOTING MAT: A rug remnant will work in the summer, but not by itself in the winter. Bring a waterproof tarp or two to place underneath it, as you might be lying down in a puddle. Something to weigh the mats down in case of wind and a blanket to cover up your rifle in case of rain are also great to have.
Either that, or you can get an awesome shooting mat from MidwayUSA, on sale now for 51% off. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/276...vc=subv1169107
While you're down in prone, your elbows and knees get surprisingly beat up, even through puffy layers of clothing. Elbow and knee pads will prove useful, these in particular: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Franklin-S...-Pads/17299981

CLOTHING: At the very least, wear a warm fluffy hat, a scarf, a thermal shirt, a couple of fleeces, a waterproof ski jacket with a hood, waterproof snow pants, gloves, and rain/snow boots with wool socks. Seems like a lot, but DO NOT WORRY ABOUT DRESSING TOO WARMLY! It's much easier to peel off a layer or two and cool off then to pile on layers and try to warm up. It's also a good idea to arrive fully bundled up for this same reason.
Walmart sells these REALLY nice snow pants in mens, womens, kids and plus sizes for just $24 a pair. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Faded-Glor...w-Bib/21501270
Sportsman's Warehouse is clearing out their Browning wool socks at $9.99 for a two-pair pack. These too are sold in mens, womens and kids sizes. http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/s...9895/cat101595

FOOD & DRINKS: Bring LOTS of HOT beverage (coffee, tea, hot cocoa), you'll be glad to have it. Also, bring a HOT lunch, like a thermos of soup, and some energy-dense snacks to stay fueled throughout the day.

I can't stress enough the importance of staying WARM AND DRY. Don't worry about over-preparing!! I don't mean to scare you off, but if you get cold and wet, your entire weekend will be ruined, and sitting through instruction and history will be a drudgery. If you're bundled up and toasty, you'll have a great time. And I mean a REALLY great time.

See y'all at Sac Valley in January!

-Melissa
Appleseed IIT

[wpage]

A great program...

[felixthecat1]

So, I'm curious in Appleseed. I know this thread is a bit old, but figured it was still better to revive, then to start a new one.

I understand from previous posts, that if I can't commit to both days, then Saturday would be the better option for the training portion for my first time, and then next time, I should do the Sunday date.

Are loaner or rental rifles available, as I currently don't own anything other than a pistol cal carbine? I'd like to purchase one, but as I'm not very experienced with them, I Think I'd prefer to get familiar with them first, and see what I think afterwards. Of course, I'd bring my own ammo.

[foesgth]

Decide which Appleseed you wish to attend and contact the shoot boss. There are usually a few loaner rifles.

[as_rocketman]

Yup, the above is the correct answer. Our attendance is down since nobody has any ammo right now so we are almost certain to have a loaner rifle or two available. Just keep in mind that you will want to get your own eventually... hard to dry practice at home without one, and without dry practice (or better) your skills will deteriorate over time.

[felixthecat1]

Anyone know if the Liberty Training Rifle package, shown @ http://www.appleseedusa.org/ltr-marlin.html is available anywhere? Seems like a great value, coming with the certificate for a the session and all the accessories included.

I can't seem to find one anywhere though. I can find some used 795s at a pawn shop nearby, but I've checked with my LGS, and they say they can't even find a stock number to check with Marlin. Any advice?

[PurplePeople]

It's apparently not in production yet. Marlin built some prototypes for announcement and shows, but haven't yet finished tooling up for mass production. Appleseed has an 'inside source' at Marlin, so we'll find out when they finally start running the production line.

[diverwcw]

Just signed up for my first Appleseed class at Raahauges in Corona in November. Then to be prepared, I ordered AR style sights for my Ruger 10/22!

http://www.tech-sights.com/

OK, I guess I'm behind the curve, but I hadn't really given this program too much thought until I started hearing about it on calguns. Then a few clicks on the computer and I'm all signed up.

Really looking forward to it!

[Jason95357]

Originally Posted by Melissa

One important thing I thought I'd tack on here is that at many locations, you're completely out in the open and shooting down in the dirt (which turns to mud in the rainy season). Although most of us are in California, this time of year it gets REALLY cold-- and wet-- so here's a little advice I learned from (not quite pleasant) experience, and I'd like to pass on.

SHOOTING MAT: A rug remnant will work in the summer, but not by itself in the winter. Bring a waterproof tarp or two to place underneath it, as you might be lying down in a puddle. Something to weigh the mats down in case of wind and a blanket to cover up your rifle in case of rain are also great to have.
Either that, or you can get an awesome shooting mat from MidwayUSA, on sale now for 51% off. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/276...vc=subv1169107
...
See y'all at Sac Valley in January!

-Melissa
Appleseed IIT

Thanks for the advice. I was just going to bring some blankets we had, but on second thought, I know my knees and elbows that those of my family will be thanking me for getting these mats.