Sheriff Gore Aims to Issue More Concealed Gun Permits in San Diego County

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by baranski

Statistics JimiJah, can't even dispute.

Think he will ever apply?

Actually, I hope he does apply and get issued (assuming he's not otherwise disqualified). As long as he doesn't have an emotional breakdown during the process, if he gets issued, it might break his negativism and help him enjoy life more. That, in turn, will allow his family, friends, coworkers, etc to enjoy their lives more too.

JimiJah, if you read this I encourage you to read over the posts I made in my thread re. applying for a CCW with CoCoCo. (I'll be editing it about .mil, Guard, and reserve LE experience in the next day or two.) It might both help you with your app and help ease your mind re. the whole process.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1482924

Believe it or not, I wish you the best!

[SD County Gun Owners PAC]

One of the hardest tasks has been convincing people that the CCW policy has changed. I know it is hard to believe, but it seems like some are happier being unhappy about CCWs.

Fortunately, hundreds are even happier about having their CCW.

600 issued in the first 12 months of the change (since September 2017) and now issuing around 40 a week.

Need help applying? Go here: www.sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC

One of the hardest tasks has been convincing people that the CCW policy has changed. I know it is hard to believe, but it seems like some are happier being unhappy about CCWs.

Fortunately, hundreds are even happier about having their CCW.

600 issued in the first 12 months of the change (since September 2017) and now issuing around 40 a week.

Need help applying? Go here: www.sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw

As of today, Nov 26, according to Gore's own CCW page,

Current CCW Permits Issued: 1957

As I posted on Oct 24,

Originally Posted by Paladin

Another month and Gore's cranked out another 100 CCWs!

Current total: 1858
https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

That's closer to issuing ~25 per week again, ~100/month. We should find out if they average ~40/week this next month between Christmas and New Years. Either way, come Dec 31st, SDSO should break 2,000 issued CCWs for the first time EVER!!!


Soon, the bottleneck may be the renewals slowing down initial applications....

[baranski]

Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC

One of the hardest tasks has been convincing people that the CCW policy has changed. I know it is hard to believe, but it seems like some are happier being unhappy about CCWs.

Fortunately, hundreds are even happier about having their CCW.

600 issued in the first 12 months of the change (since September 2017) and now issuing around 40 a week.

Need help applying? Go here: www.sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw

Your efforts have paid dividends for many!

Thanks for staying in the fight!

[L84CABO]

Soooo the licensing folks at SD Sheriff's Dept just called. Apparently they're not happy that I applied using a Ca state ID and not a drivers license. My driver's license is still from Wa. I just never converted it over. Even though I have a place down here, my truck is registered here, I filed a CA tax return, etc., they won't issue my permit until I either have the CA lic or can demonstrate I'm in process. So I now have an appointment with DMV.

This is all so very stupid for something that is supposed to be my right, granted to me from God, not Bill Gore.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

:This is all so very stupid for something that is supposed to be my right, granted to me from God, not Bill Gore.

You've been either hanging around CGN too much (to think that a CA CCW currently has anything to do with the 2nd A), or not enough (to come across my advice thread for people who want CCWs in CoCoCo).

Originally Posted by Paladin

PRELIMINARY MATTER (Extremely important!!!)

(1) Concealed Carry is not about the 2nd Amendment "Right to Keep & Bear Arms". The Ninth Circuit en banc in Peruta said there is no 2nd A Right to Concealed Carry, so what you’re seeking in applying for a CCW permit is to exercise a privilege under California state law. That’s the perspective of the sheriffs and chiefs because that’s the current state of the law for California. Make it your perspective when applying, even though you may believe it is wrong. Bringing up the 2nd Amendment won’t get you anywhere and will just annoy them. Don't do it.

(2) Concealed Carry requires a permit (CCW) under CA state law. When you hear “permit”, think “permission slip”. You are requesting a permission slip to exercise a privilege of legally concealed carrying of a handgun. This sucks and sounds unconstitutional, but it’s the current state of the law. Just thank God Trump is president so, hopefully, SCOTUS will fix this sorry state of affairs. But don’t expect the sheriff to fix it -- he’s in law enforcement, not into making or judging laws. Don't try to debate the point. Even if you win, you won't win.

(3) A CA CCW is a May Issue permit, not Shall Issue. Getting a driver's license at the DMV is Shall Issue. There you can -- frighteningly -- wear a pro marijuana T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops and look down your nose ring at the DMV Lady and still get your license. Not so here. When you hear “May Issue”, think “Mother may I?” That should be your attitude because that’s the power the sheriff has over whether he grants you a CCW or not. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Once again: this is not about getting to carry under our federal Constitution’s 2nd A, but under our state’s statutory law. So far, as far as the Ninth Circuit is concerned, we don’t have a RBA to Concealed Carry under the 2nd A (Peruta) and they're still figuring out what to decide re. Open Carry (Young). If you want to legally carry now, you have to play by the rules of the game as they are now. Otherwise, just wait until the federal courts sort things out (in a few years, we hope).

If you only want to carry under the 2nd A: don't apply for a CA CCW permit and remain unarmed in public in CA for a few years until the federal courts decide what public carry right is enshrined in the 2nd A. (Will it be OC? CC? both? loaded? w/o permit or can a permit be required?) This thread is for those who'd rather CC under our state's permitting scheme until then. I keep harping on this because we, on CGN, are always talking about the 2nd A and various court battles over it. It will be easy for you to slip back into that way of thinking during the application process and talking during the interview — DON’T!!!

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by Paladin

You've been either hanging around CGN too much (to think that a CA CCW currently has anything to do with the 2nd A), or not enough (to come across my advice thread for people who want CCWs in CoCoCo).

Believe me, I have NO illusions to think that CCW has anything to do with 2A in this godforsaken 2A wasteland of a state. I am simply exercising my God given First Amendment right to bitc...err...complain. I figured since there are NO 2A rights here, I might as well exercise some of the remaining ones I have left.

Our Founders would be shooting people by now.

WOLVERINES!!

[sofbak]

For purposes of ID and an LTC permit; why is a CalDMV ID "substandard" to a Cal DMV issued driver's license? I can easily see examples of citizens that don't have/need a driver's license and may also have good cause for an LTC.

SUX that uncle bill still uses his imagination stead of law for policy decisions.

[CessnaDriver]

All I can think is because there are two IDs, the CA ID and the out of state drives license, could lead to confusion on address when comparing to the address listed on the CCW. They are really big on making sure your home address is accurate sending out people to check even in some cases.

[sofbak]

I suppose, but you'd think the DMV verified ca address coupled with utility bills and so on that uncle bill requires to verify your address would be sufficient. An out of state dl shouldn't even enter in the issue process or "field verification" if it ever comes up.

[CessnaDriver]

I think it's all about a traffic stop in this particular case... an officer is going to ask for driver's license, and now you are presenting differing addresses with what you have on the CCW permit. And of course the CCW is issued to only residents of the issuing county and now your presenting at least one ID that says you live in another state.
If you don't drive, the CA ID would probably be fine. The out of state driver license is what I think they are concerned about.

[sofbak]

Im in the same situation as L84Cabo-homes in San Diego and Texas. Have a vehicle in SD registered in ca. Got traffic stopped once in SD. Showed officer tx dl and ca registration with proof of ca insurance on vehicle. He asked why tx dl, I explained dual state residency, and that was it-no issue.

But for ca only resident with no ca driver's license, I still don't see why a state issued id is "insufficient" for uncle bill.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by sofbak

Im in the same situation as L84Cabo-homes in San Diego and Texas. Have a vehicle in SD registered in ca. Got traffic stopped once in SD. Showed officer tx dl and ca registration with proof of ca insurance on vehicle. He asked why tx dl, I explained dual state residency, and that was it-no issue.

But for ca only resident with no ca driver's license, I still don't see why a state issued id is "insufficient" for uncle bill.

Likely because Bill does not issue for out of state residents. Period. Nobody in CA does to the best of my knowledge. YOU MUST LIVE HERE. So when they see and ID and not a license, they get suspicious. If I had told him that I didn't drive, I bet he would have accepted the id. I don't know what he would have said if I told him I was dual resident. Wasn't that really Peruta's situation essentially?

[sofbak]

^^^ Well I searched this web page:

https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

And I searched the SDCO Sheriff's application form, and nowhere did it state you had to have a ca driver's license. The only place I found any mention of a dl was on the application where it asked for:

Drivers License no./ID no.

You do have to "demonstrate/prove" residency and there is a list of acceptable documents that do that. Again, no mention of a driver's license. So uncle bill must believe if you posess a dl from another state, you can't be a resident if SD county regardless of what ever documentation you have. Guess I don't have to pay anymore ca income taxes then either!

So uncle bill is conjuring unsubstantiated/undocumented requirements that are not reflected in his published department policy.

I guess if I decide to apply, I'll just answer "I don't have one" if asked for a driver's license.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by sofbak

^^^ Well I searched this web page:

https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

And I searched the SDCO Sheriff's application form, and nowhere did it state you had to have a ca driver's license. The only place I found any mention of a dl was on the application where it asked for:

Drivers License no./ID no.

You do have to "demonstrate/prove" residency and there is a list of acceptable documents that do that. Again, no mention of a driver's license. So uncle bill must believe if you posess a dl from another state, you can't be a resident if SD county regardless of what ever documentation you have. Guess I don't have to pay anymore ca income taxes then either!

So uncle bill is conjuring unsubstantiated/undocumented requirements that are not reflected in his published department policy.

I guess if I decide to apply, I'll just answer "I don't have one" if asked for a driver's license.

First I'll simply say that I had absolutely zero expectation that any of this process was going to be in accordance with the Constitution. It's frustrating of course, but it's California where the ability to carry is absolutely a privilege and not a right.

I'll also wish you luck on your answer, "I don't have one." But I suspect it probably won't work. I had all of the proper documentation to prove CA residency. And it didn't stop the clerks from calling me to ask why I was applying with a CA ID. They're going to want to hear a valid reason why you have a CA ID...like it's because you don't drive or possibly because you are a dual resident.

I honestly don't know how the dual resident claim would have gone. I could have tried to go down the path but it's such a cluster-eff in this state already, I didn't want to take the chance that they would come back and say, "no, you're actually a resident of WA and, therefore, no permit for you." Washington is much simpler with this so swapping out of WA DL for a CA one is really the path of least resistance. At least for me.

Do let us know how it goes if you do decide to apply. And to that end, if you're thinking about applying at all, it's probably best to get your appointment schedule now as the wait is only getting longer. You can always cancel the appt down the road if you change your mind.

May the odds be ever in your favor!

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by sofbak

..........

I guess if I decide to apply, I'll just answer "I don't have one" if asked for a driver's license.

If it's true fine. Otherwise I would strongly recommend to not do this for numerous reasons beyond just not getting a California CCW this time, likely it would
mean never getting one no matter how much easier it gets here in the future. Or if applying in another state or county in the future the question may be asked "
have you ever been denied? and why? Better to be able to say good cause was not enough, and not I lied about my license.

[L84CABO]

Got my approval letter today. My second interview was Sep 27. And my "good cause" was along the lines of...

1) Frequently visiting remote parts of the county where cell service and police response time would be delayed

2) To shoot, camp, hike, etc.

3) And my being in possession of thousands of dollars worth of firearms, camping equipment, my truck, etc., makes me a greater target for theft/robbery.

[L84CABO]

So I took my CCW class today (Discount Gun Mart, Morena) and as the instructor was checking permit numbers on the approval letters, he mentioned that one guy was the first time he's had someone come through his class with a number over 30,000. This is supposedly the number of permits that have been issued in the county since the beginning of time.

Seems like a pretty small number all things considered but hopefully we make up for lost time now that Gore has started issuing.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

So I took my CCW class today (Discount Gun Mart, Morena) and as the instructor was checking permit numbers on the approval letters, he mentioned that one guy was the first time he's had someone come through his class with a number over 30,000. This is supposedly the number of permits that have been issued in the county since the beginning of time.

Seems like a pretty small number all things considered but hopefully we make up for lost time now that Gore has started issuing.

That's over 1000 a month based on what my number was three months ago.

[L84CABO]

My buddy just called to schedule his first interview. He got scheduled in August. And it's only going to get worse.

[Paladin]

Current CCW Permits Issued: 2054

From: https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

Yet again, Gore has cranked out just under 100 CCWs in a month (IOW ~25/week).



My guess is that it is the first time EVER that SDSO has had >2,000 active 2-year CCWs.

Merry Christmas to all you San Diego folk. "Keep Calm and Carry On."

[riflehunter]

Did my second interview last week, their must have been half a dozen questions regarding if I had ever applied to be a cop, reserve cop etc etc. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Other than that I thought it went pretty well, people there seem very polite and helpful. It was actually my first and second interview combined as I had taken with me everything but the kitchen sink regarding information including my dd214. The only thing they didnt take was my birth certificate. They now know more about me than my wife of 45 years.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by riflehunter

Did my second interview last week, their must have been half a dozen questions regarding if I had ever applied to be a cop, reserve cop etc etc. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Other than that I thought it went pretty well, people there seem very polite and helpful. It was actually my first and second interview combined as I had taken with me everything but the kitchen sink regarding information including my dd214. The only thing they didnt take was my birth certificate. They now know more about me than my wife of 45 years.

I would agree. I had three different people through all three interviews and everyone was very professional and helpful. It kinda seemed like they were pulling for you. At no point did I ever feel like somebody was deliberately trying to prevent me from getting the permit.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by riflehunter

Did my second interview last week, their must have been half a dozen questions regarding if I had ever applied to be a cop, reserve cop etc etc. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Closer attention to intercept "Tackleberry" types who may have been rejected from LE on a psych basis.
San Diego isn't requiring a psych exam is it? Some agencies do.

[riflehunter]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

Closer attention to intercept "Tackleberry" types who may have been rejected from LE on a psych basis.
San Diego isn't requiring a psych exam is it? Some agencies do.

Ahh Ill bet youre right on that. No psych test was mentioned but who knows if they will spring it on me right before issuing ..

[riflehunter]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

I would agree. I had three different people through all three interviews and everyone was very professional and helpful. It kinda seemed like they were pulling for you. At no point did I ever feel like somebody was deliberately trying to prevent me from getting the permit.

Same here, they were neutral but in a positive way. She did tell me that the permits were granted by a committee not one individual. I believe that my good cause should qualify but then again we are dealing with a county government agency, I should know for sure in a few months from what I was told.

[Max Power!]

Originally Posted by riflehunter

Did my second interview last week, their must have been half a dozen questions regarding if I had ever applied to be a cop, reserve cop etc etc. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Other than that I thought it went pretty well, people there seem very polite and helpful. It was actually my first and second interview combined as I had taken with me everything but the kitchen sink regarding information including my dd214. The only thing they didnt take was my birth certificate. They now know more about me than my wife of 45 years.

They ask if you applied to be a cop because that hiring process requires a background investigation. They want to see if during that background investigation there was unfavorable information discovered that would affect their decision to issue a CCW.

[riflehunter]

Originally Posted by Max Power!

They ask if you applied to be a cop because that hiring process requires a background investigation. They want to see if during that background investigation there was unfavorable information discovered that would affect their decision to issue a CCW.

Makes perfect sense. Guess theyll be disappointed as Ive never applied for any law enforcement job.

[Paladin]

Concealed Weapons Permit Current CCW Permits Issued: 2117

Another month and Gore's cranked out another 63 CCWs, despite the holidays! Yet another record breaking total!



SDSO should break 3,000 by next New Year's Day.

Hopefully, Gore will hire more staff and get more funding/resources for his CCW unit to speed up the process even more.

Upward and onward!

[wannabefree]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Another month and Gore's cranked out another 63 CCWs, despite the holidays! Yet another record breaking total!



SDSO should break 3,000 by next New Year's Day.

Hopefully, Gore will hire more staff and get more funding/resources for his CCW unit to speed up the process even more.

Upward and onward!

Hmm, 2117 seems like a pathetic number based on the total population of San Diego County, CA. That has to be a fraction of 1% . Sounds more like chrony's and a privileged few to me.

Just sayin.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by wannabefree

Hmm, 2117 seems like a pathetic number based on the total population of San Diego County, CA. That has to be a fraction of 1% . Sounds more like chrony's and a privileged few to me.

Just sayin.

I agree the number is small, but I can assure that I was not in those two groups at all. What I can say is when I strongly encourage others to at least get an appointment as they have plenty of time to work on their justification, it's they that are not taking that simple step forward to achieve the goal.

This despite my personal experience conveyed that yes you CAN get a CCW in San Diego county and still be a "regular" person. Sure you need to produce some documentation that you have an elevated risk over the general public, I even give them suggestions that should be reasonable for them to go ahead and try, but they don't. I can't stress enough to those that are being lazy about this, to go learn about the process and go to the seminars and they may realize they have solid justifications they did not realize.

The small number given the population is I believe because many are simply too lazy and not motivated and of course decades of supression of this right has lulled many into sheepful thinking.
And of course yes, the insane slow process is to blame as well. I would be curious how many applicants are waiting right now.

One's life or their loved ones could be at stake after all, it is my opinion that everyone who would consider getting a CCW and willing to take that responsibility should at least try. Because it could mean life or death in a defensive situation.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by wannabefree

Hmm, 2117 seems like a pathetic number based on the total population of San Diego County, CA. That has to be a fraction of 1% . Sounds more like chrony's and a privileged few to me.

Just sayin.

Have you been paying attention to what's going on...at all?

Yea, of course it's a small number when compared to where it should be. Duh! Thank you for stating the obvious! No really, thank you for pointing that out because NOBODY here realized that.

And yes, of course, the reason the number is this small is because up until recently Gore simply wasn't issuing. But now he is. Which is huge! And that's the damn point!

So yea, it's going to take some time for that number to increase...which sucks. And hopefully Gore does something to combat the backlog and workload. But holy crap HE'S ACTUALLY ISSUING! And the number is growing at a pretty decent rate. But you don't go from not issuing to issuing and suddenly have 30K permits overnight. Having that expectation is just stupid.

I'm a San Diego native. I've lived here for 52 years and I NEVER thought we'd see this day. Now I'm one of those 2117 people with a freshly minted permit. And I literally used shooting out in the remote areas of San Diego as my "good cause" reason. And every single person here could have done this and had their permit already if they didn't have the same attitude that you do.

Just sayin.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by wannabefree

Hmm, 2117 seems like a pathetic number based on the total population of San Diego County, CA. That has to be a fraction of 1% . Sounds more like chrony's and a privileged few to me.

Just sayin.

San Bernardino County = 2 million, ~10,000 permits. 1/2%, and there are not many counties that are more pro-issue than SBSD, and these numbers are from a county that has been pro-issue for many, many years, while SD was virtually no-issue until last year.

Much of it is simply ignorance on the part of gun owners that getting a permit is not only possible, but not particularly difficult. Most people honestly believe that we have no ability to legally carry concealed in California unless we are politically connected.

Even in shall-issue states in Free America, CCW rates are well below 5% with only a few exceptions.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by wannabefree

Hmm, 2117 seems like a pathetic number based on the total population of San Diego County, CA. That has to be a fraction of 1% . Sounds more like chrony's and a privileged few to me.

Just sayin.

A couple of years ago, the number was about 1/10th of that. IOW, in 2 years Gore has increased the # of SD Co CCWs by 10x! And you're whining about that?

Hutches in OC had similar numbers after she pulled a bunch of questionable CCWs issued by Carona. Then after the 3-judge panel decision of Peruta in 2014 Feb, she started readily issuing. Now, 5 years later, OCSO has issued about 20,000 CCWs! Gore has had his CCW unit personnel get in touch with Hutchen's CCW unit personnel to learn how to streamline SD's process. Hopefully they'll be able to imitate OC and in a few years, SD will have ~20,000 issued CCWs too.

But even then you could whine and say that's only 1/3rd of what their numbers should be, and you'd be right in that too. But some of us prefer to celebrate progress rather than just whine about a lack of perfection....

Just sayin'....

[baranski]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Gore has had his CCW unit personnel get in touch with Hutchen's CCW unit personnel to learn how to streamline SD's process. ...

Hopefully they will get a new "card" machine as well.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by baranski

Hopefully they will get a new "card" machine as well.

+1. You almost have to wonder if it's intentional. Like, "ok, we'll finally give you a permit but we're going to make it the most obnoxious thing for you to carry around that we possibly can."

Who the hell makes an I.D. card that isn't the standard size and doesn't fit into a wallet? Savages...that's who!

The least they could do is let you take a picture of it and allow you to carry it electronically in your phone. It's 2019 for god sake!

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

+1. You almost have to wonder if it's intentional. Like, "ok, we'll finally give you a permit but we're going to make it the most obnoxious thing for you to carry around that we possibly can."

Who the hell makes an I.D. card that isn't the standard size and doesn't fit into a wallet? Savages...that's who!

The least they could do is let you take a picture of it and allow you to carry it electronically in your phone. It's 2019 for god sake!

Yeah, reminds me of the laminated pool membership passes that we used to get as kids. I view it as something they are slowly catching up on. Right now let them concentrate on making the process more efficient/speedy, and then we can push for a more user friendly permit.

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

Much of it is simply ignorance on the part of gun owners that getting a permit is not only possible, but not particularly difficult. Most people honestly believe that we have no ability to legally carry concealed in California unless we are politically connected.

Yeah, I sent an email to my work's gun email list and a lot of those guys didn't realize that the policy has changed for the better. So hopefully word continues to spread and more folks can get their permit.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by Nachoman

Yeah, reminds me of the laminated pool membership passes that we used to get as kids. I view it as something they are slowly catching up on. Right now let them concentrate on making the process more efficient/speedy, and then we can push for a more user friendly permit.

Yea, I completely agree. They got bigger fish to fry like the backlog and the process in general. Three interviews/trips to the sheriff's office? Are you kidding me? Most of that could have been handled on line but their process is/was built around a very low volume of applicants. Hopefully they get it sorted out.

[CriticalEnmity]

Because I'm a lazy pos to read through things, What are the chances of a 21+ college student getting issued a CCW? Is it worth applying?